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3rd Gen HID vs LED vs Halogen H11 projector headlights

Discussion in '3rd Gen. Tacomas (2016-2023)' started by crashnburn80, Jan 25, 2019.

  1. Oct 11, 2021 at 4:30 PM
    #5261
    Saturnine

    Saturnine YVAN EHT NIOJ

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    Probably gen 2 reflectors with h9s
     
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  2. Oct 11, 2021 at 5:35 PM
    #5262
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    Very interesting question.

    If it were a Hylux (sold internationally) and keeping cost on a Tacoma budget wasn't a concern, and a competing company wouldn't mind sharing their proprietary headlight tech, I'd consider Audi's adaptive digital matrix LED headlights with laser boost. Unfortunately slow archaic US lighting regulations prevent us from getting those in the US and they would be way outside of the appropriate price point of a Tacoma. The RX350 D2S HIDs are nice, but I wouldn't put HIDs on a new modern vehicle. Drawing from the Toyota arsenal I'd likely utilize the T4R LED projector low beam (but fix the flying saucer in the beam pattern) which have a great 5000k color temp and impressive beam intensity, and then the T4R halogen reflector high beam but make a 9011 HIR bulb standard instead of a 9005, and source the new Korean Osram 9011s as standard equipment. I would also include lens heaters as part of the cold weather package that would automatically turn on below 42 degrees. If designing from scratch, I'd likely utilize a multi-LED reflector which can offer a wider pattern than some projectors and use the same for with an LED high beam, similar to the OME Tacoma LED units. But I'd want to boost the output with higher power LEDs in a better 5000k, and again include a heated lens option. I'd also eliminate the halogen headlight option, with lens heaters there is no need and by keeping it, it means the headlight must be large enough for a halogen assembly when LED assemblies could be much smaller.

    It might be fun to experiment with some of the newer optic styles allowed by LEDs, which would give greater design freedom to the front of the truck. For example, I run JW Speaker Heated Evo J3s. Here is an image of the non-heated model. The projector on the top right is the high intensity focal hot spot while the 5 ribbed lenses on the left cover the rest of the beam pattern and spread. The 3 projectors on the bottom are the high beam. The white J shape is the DRL and signal and the notch to the right of the J is a cornering light. These have an amazing 4500k color temp, but output intensity could be better. If you placed the low and high beam components in a row, you'd have a very compact headlight assembly, much smaller than what is used on the Tacoma today and something that would not be achievable in a halogen headlight.


    [​IMG]

    Looks busy, but the lens heaters kinda make it all blend. Obviously wouldn't put a round headlight on the Tacoma. Wouldn't want it looking to space age weird though, Toyota has played it pretty safe with the Tacoma. But it would interesting to experiment with and see what that opens for design doors.
    [​IMG]
     
    Gnarman[QUOTED] and Toy_Runner like this.
  3. Oct 11, 2021 at 5:58 PM
    #5263
    daveeasa

    daveeasa FBC Harness Solutions Vendor

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    I think I need to buy a 4Runner.
     
  4. Oct 11, 2021 at 6:05 PM
    #5264
    a2lowvw

    a2lowvw Well-Known Member

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    Stuff and things
    and here is his reply @memario1214

    So here's the "Cliffs Notes" response that I think that Crash would have to the question of "if you were designing the 4th Gen Tacoma headlights what would it look like". I'd write a bunch more, but I am getting on a plane, and am too cheap to pay for the Wifi :p:

    • LED based housings - LED is an unfortunate victim of optics and performance falls off quickly if housings are not properly tuned. However, they also have the ability to produce tremendous amounts of power and output intensity in smaller form factors making them a good solution for the ever-growing grille of modern day vehicles.
    • Reflector vs Projector - LED reflectors - I'm not sure if he would say separate modules for low/hi beam or standalone elements for the different patterns
     
    crashnburn80[OP] likes this.
  5. Oct 11, 2021 at 6:12 PM
    #5265
    daveeasa

    daveeasa FBC Harness Solutions Vendor

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    I’m gonna take the W from Colton on a more specific prediction
     
    crashnburn80[OP] likes this.
  6. Oct 11, 2021 at 7:03 PM
    #5266
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    Those are styling blue coated bulbs designed to have Sylvania’s “whitest light” which also means the greatest performance robbing coating that reduces output more than any of their others bulbs.
     
  7. Oct 11, 2021 at 8:20 PM
    #5267
    Spike Spiegel

    Spike Spiegel Well-Known Member

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    Interesting find. Keep me posted good sir. Thank you.
     
    daveeasa[QUOTED] likes this.
  8. Oct 11, 2021 at 10:22 PM
    #5268
    Gnarman

    Gnarman Well-Known Member

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    this is awesome! Thanks for the detailed post we need to get you hired at Toyota or keep or at least consulting w some of the aftermarket like morimoto to bring awesome products to market.
     
  9. Oct 11, 2021 at 10:44 PM
    #5269
    Gnarman

    Gnarman Well-Known Member

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  10. Oct 11, 2021 at 11:06 PM
    #5270
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    Already do some of that as an enthusiast, but don't get paid for it. I was a long time hold out on LED fogs because they were all so ineffective for the conditions they were designed for. It seemed so obvious, if you want to see in high density fog the last thing you'd want is a high color temp 6000k LED that is extremely reflective off of the precipitation in the air. But that was exactly what everyone was doing. ~3000k longer wavelength halogens were vastly more effective effective in fog. Why weren't any of the LED fog manufactures pursuing selective yellow? Which would also benefit with higher filtration losses generating heat at that lens for better resistance to icing (another hold out of mine), since fogs are most likely going to be used in poor weather. I met with Rigid reps explaining my ideas, and as a result helped bring the very first selective yellow LED fogs to market. Post #256. And look at where that trend is now. I probably should stop giving my ideas away for free.
     
  11. Oct 11, 2021 at 11:52 PM
    #5271
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    I feel the brain cells dying off in mass watching that video. That cheap Chinese Vland pattern is a train wreck, and while those may look like OEM, they are not even close. OEM had 5 low beam emitters, the Vlands have 3. OEM has 2 high beam emitters, Vland has 1. OEM has ultra high precision optics with precise cut offs, perfect intensity at the pattern cut off and appropriate uplight, it is an outstanding headlight.

    OEM LED low beam
    [​IMG]

    "Carbide" aka cheap Chinese Vland low beam... I'm at a loss for how to describe something this bad. Like seriously W. T. F. is this?
    upload_2021-10-11_23-26-5.jpg

    That isn't a correct headlight pattern in the slightest. Headlights are not supposed to look like a wave pattern. They try to brush it off in the video like "it is because it is a reflector". Are you joking?! Do you see the precision cut off of Toyota's OEM reflector? No it isn't because it is a reflector, it is because the product is shit. It is just astounding he is trying to sell people on this with a straight face. And those lux numbers, highly suspect. Being that HR also tried to sell the 2nd Gen Morimotos as 500% brighter based on their lux numbers compared to stock, when they were actually only 60% brighter, aka the same as a halogen bulb upgrade. But here is a member that installed those exact Vland units before TRS/HR/GTR bought them out. Post #44. Needless to say it isn't good. Also interesting to note, apparently the branding deal includes a design exclusivity clause, so those units will very quickly dry up off of China alibaba where you can order them direct for less.

    Headlight Revolution is part of the Driven Lighting Group companies, which include TRS and Morimoto. The umbrella was recently sold to Wheel Pros. Here is how Wheel Pros breaks down the brands, they classify HR's brand contribution as a "Youtube Influencer". Cringe. If someone wanted to send me one I'd gladly review it, but I'm not wasting money on this garbage.

    upload_2021-10-11_23-38-35.jpg
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2021
  12. Oct 12, 2021 at 1:54 AM
    #5272
    907rx7

    907rx7 Well-Known Member

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    Was reading this article about the current market of vpn services and couldn't help but think about headlights lol

    https://nyti.ms/2WJCy1m

    EDIT: screen shot added as people may hit a pay wall.

    Screenshot_20211012-005522_NYTimes.jpg
     
  13. Oct 12, 2021 at 10:02 AM
    #5273
    replica9000

    replica9000 Das ist no bueno

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    Most people think VPNs are good for hiding your online activity, but those companies themselves can monitor what you're doing. Their advertising is about as honest as these aftermarket headlights companies.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2021
  14. Oct 12, 2021 at 11:07 AM
    #5274
    klavender1

    klavender1 Well-Known Member

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    Well dang. I use Express VPN and the Duck Duck Go app. I will say that the VPN hides my location because most sites think I'm in Atlanta.
     
  15. Oct 12, 2021 at 11:10 AM
    #5275
    klavender1

    klavender1 Well-Known Member

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    @crashnburn80 Since I work at a Lexus dealership, I see older Lexus models with OEM HID headlights and open freeform housings. With just a cap in front of it, no projectors. Just an early form of HID I guess.

    It's amazing how far headlight technology has come. Of course pretty much all the new models are LED and very effective.
     
  16. Oct 12, 2021 at 11:44 AM
    #5276
    crashnburn80

    crashnburn80 [OP] Vehicle Design Engineer

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    HID reflectors? Are you sure they are OEM? What model did they come on? I’ve not heard of such a headlight, but doesn’t mean it didn’t exist.
     
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  17. Oct 12, 2021 at 11:48 AM
    #5277
    Toy_Runner

    Toy_Runner Well-Known Member

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    Early Toyota Prius models (Prii?) had reflector based HID, as did some cadillac escalade models. It's not that HID cannot be refoector based, it's that the lamp needs to be designed around the lightsource, and simply mimicing the placement of the lightsource is not sufficient to act as asufficiently suitable replacement. This latter step is what most "hid" retrofit kits attempted to do for years, and what a significant number of the LED retrofit bulbs attempt to do now.
     
  18. Oct 12, 2021 at 11:48 AM
    #5278
    klavender1

    klavender1 Well-Known Member

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    They are definitely OEM. I know early LS430s, GS300s and IS300s had HIDs (or at least options for HIDs). It's very weird seeing this these days. It looks like your standard halogen housing.
     
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  19. Oct 12, 2021 at 11:54 AM
    #5279
    ryanvar42

    ryanvar42 That is your opinion. It is wrong.

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    So, like everything they all just are owned by the same damn place and we cant trust anything. Sighhh
     
  20. Oct 12, 2021 at 11:59 AM
    #5280
    Methadras

    Methadras Well-Known Member

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    That's interesting. Well, it was an Amazon buy, so they can go right back. In lieu of getting the Korean Sylvania bulbs, what do you recommend in H11? The one made in Germany?
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2021

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