Space and Science BS Thread

* SLS launched orion.

Um... no. HLS - starship will never return to earth. No TPS or aero control surfaces

Starship is a 2 stage system, 'Superheavy' being stage and meaning to land at the launch site. It does use grid fins. Starship is stage 2, and will change attitude using large moving flaps. It's designed to land. The HLS variant won't so will be stripped of those flaps and whatnot. For test launches, the /first/ one(s) will be going into the water until they can demonstrate landing precision and survivable re-entry. But otherwise, tanker and cargo starships will indeed land.

Starship can launch from KSC just fine. They don't have a place to build it there though. Starships are only double the thrust of the Saturn 5s.

They did buy two decommissioned oil rigs which are a longer term plan for when launches go higher cadence. Those, however, will not be drilling for gas.

 

I missed this. Marcus House did a video the other day, it was on in the background, but I could swear he said according to his calculations that it would only require 5 tankers to get from Earth's orbit, to Mars, and BACK again. It was on in the background though, so I may have misheard/misremembered him. So the Moon should be theoretically less.

Other than that, yes that's what the plan is supposed to be for now. Honestly I don't think that plan will last though. When things actually start happening, the astronauts aren't going to want to be in a tiny lunar gateway capsule, or a tiny lunar surface module while/when they could have access to Starship which is going to dwarf them all. They're already looking at telescope variants, we'll probably see a few land and stay as infrastructure for a few years. I just think the cost between leasing a rocket from Spacex as labratory/living quarters is going to be much cheaper than any capsules they'll be developing for an initial colony.

 

Good stuff!

My info on the number of tankers could be outdated.

One thing that hasn’t come up for cargo is a Prufrock or two assuming they’re operational. Folks on the lunar surface are going to need all the protection they can get.

 

Breaking:
https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/1455262590792343552?s=21

https://twitter.com/cbs_spacenews/status/1455257604603748355?s=21

https://twitter.com/spaceflightnow/status/1455260399549526020?s=21

 

https://twitter.com/hubbletelescope/status/1455280291510165507?s=21

 

No, what? You quoted me saying star ship isn’t designed to land here then said no, HLS isn’t designed to land here.
Yes, some variants are designed for it, specifically those with grid fins, flaps, and heat shields. What was being discussed was the first prototype headed for the moon and what cargo it made sense to risk in it. Bricks seems overly pessimistic to me and a cyber truck not particularly useful should it survive. Given that the first trip is more than likely a one way journey and that successive trips involve many launches for each cargo it strikes me as wasteful to miss out on any opportunity to deliver a lower cost/high risk payload (low cost in terms of price here only, everything needed up there will be high value to those waiting for such deliveries). Intentionally crashing one there carries a completely different set of consequences (both in terms of loss of vehicle and loss of opportunity) than doing so here which is how the water landings even came up in the discussion. Other variants were never the focus.

 

No starship will have grid fins. Those are for the superheavy boosters.

The HLS contract requires two demonstration flights - one uncrewed, one crewed. I don't think they're going to crash the uncrewed one, and likely if you want excess mass to demonstrate capability, just bring extra propellant. More margin is good and proves out safety. Plus heck, depending on how much boil-off it gets and how exactly they plan to keep things chilled, it could make a good emergency fuel depot.

 

While fuel depot would be a nice option, unless they can store it long term in direct sunlight with no cryoshell it makes little sense when there are so many other options that could even with a less than optimal landing. It’s not so much about proving anything to NASA so much as taking advantage of hull space that is scarce. If Elon wants to go to the moon then he may choose to satisfy NASA first but not stop there.

 

Considering HLS is required to have at least 100 days of loiter, they're going to need that capability anyway.

 

It’s interesting you folks think they’ll be two Starship HLSs…. Unless the contract calls for 2, I would think SpaceX would reuse one for both the unmanned and manned missions.

Also, i’m a bit surprised nothing was announced yesterday but then again, there’s no real rush to get back to the moon, right.

 

Damn, it’s an IPA…

https://twitter.com/shift4/status/1455271836149764097?s=21

 

There will most likely be 2 starting out. They'll probably want one as a backup just chilling on the surface. Depending upon whether they can unload them with drones, they may land 6-10 loaded with supplies before they land humans. That's their stated plan with mars, and the moon makes a good practice run for that.

 

Mind blown just a bit.

That would be some exponential increase in operationality and quantity of vehicles built.

 

Interesting look in to the launch windows available for Artemis 1:
https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2021/11/artemis-1-launch-periods/

 

Well they're pumping out prototypes right now, and that's with them spending half their time building their own infrastructure. They started making their storage tanks just like their rockets. When they get the new building built and focus 100% on rockets, they're going to be pumping them out like crazy.

 

It should be obvious by now but I haven’t a clue, I’m just spitballing. With all the different space craft being bandied about its hard to keep track. There’s more than one crew dragon though so why not more than one HLS? I thought the goal was to have fleets busily doing fleet things.

 

Just passing through

 

I do not think anyone is looking to NASA a for fleets of anything. Asteroid mining techniques will be developed on the moon first if Lucy finds anything of interest before venturing any further. But just getting a toehold on the moon will take many trips to support each different enterprise attempted and the crews involved. NASA is funding the beginning of this but if it does go commercial then it should shift to other avenues of research and development.

 

The problem with asteroid mining is that it's HORRIBLY inefficient. Tourism will be the initial driver of high investment. If starship comes through on it's claims, the moon becomes within reach for average citizens. This should lead to construction of moon hotels, and that will drive local resource harvesting.