3rd Gen HID vs LED vs Halogen H11 projector headlights

Fascinating. My brothers wife drives one of these, a 2015, which also has dual projectors. I'm going to have to take a closer look at it this weekend as that is very bizarre. Thanks for sharing!

The correct answer to run HIDs is a high quality OEM HID projector retrofit (though still not technically legal). In this image though there doesn't appear to be the typical halogen uplight that you usually see causing significant glare to oncoming drivers when running HIDs in halogen projectors. But cameras can be surprisingly deceptive when photographing light, they can easily mute out the milder light output when there is a very high intensity light source present, especially against more reflective steel doors. If there is no uplight, that is a significant problem. It creates a blinding effect where you cannot see beyond your headlight cut off due to the high intensity light and drastic contrast at the cut off. Basically you cannot see anything till it is under your low beam, giving little warning. This is also common in poor quality retrofits using aftermarket projectors. If it does have uplight based on a halogen projector that isn't well captured in the photo, then it is certainly well beyond legals levels and likely blinding to oncoming drivers. Clear lens tuning is a projector mod to improve output performance. I'm not familiar with the 2005 GX Projectors, so I don't have a baseline to gauge from. You can see the OEM HID uplight in the RX350 projectors in post #5165 here. Long story short, if you want to run HID it should be in an OEM HID assembly.

 

Judging off this comment I would say he probably removed the "squirrel finder" so there would be little to no up lighting. Some people remove it to give a sharper cutoff for more aesthetics, but obviously it does hurt performance.



This is the squirrel finder (outlined in red) on an RX350 AFS projector for reference so people know what the discussion is. NOT my picture, grabbed off the interwebs. Essentially it reflects a small amount of light upwards to illuminate signs and animals eyes above the cutoff of light. This is incorporated on ALL OEM projectors, not all are designed exactly like this but it is the same basic principle. Some aftermarket projectors also use a squirrel finder as well, but not all.

 

Removing the uplight isn't the correct solution. But neither is running a halogen projector with uplight and using HID and causing blinding glare. The uplight should be calibrated to the HID light source, which requires a quality HID projector.

 

100% AGREE!!! That's another thing many don't consider with adding HID's into a halogen projector.

Something else that I noticed the other day on the way to work was a Silverado (reflector housing) behind me at a stop light with PNP LED's. In my side mirror since I have tinted windows I could easily see the way that the LED projected its light in the reflector bowl and it made me think of all these lighting threads. I wished I would have taken a picture (the one on the right), but the picture below shows exactly what I was seeing. This really puts it into perspective why PNP LED's output diminishes so much in distance compared to a halogen or even HID since they emit 360 degrees. Since it is not lighting the top or bottom of the reflector (projector or reflector based housing) there will be less distance lighting as the top in a reflector housing or the top and bottom of a projector is not being lit. Not to mention the LED placement fowrard/aft being in the wrong position compared to the halogen filament that affects glare. I know this has been discussed before in this thread. Just thought I would share my experience since it made me think about this subject.

 

I was debating a moron in another forum (before I gave up) and he said that "LED manufacturers have solved the problem of glare by duplicating the placement of the filament with the location of the diodes." Yea, he's been soaking up the (false) marketing hype. I brought up exactly your issue with side to side (or up and down) facing LEDs and he went on to say that "most of the light in a halogen reflector housing is wasted anyway." I then mentioned how the best LED lighting manufacturers use TIR technology to reflect as much light as possible for more accurate lighting. His last statement (the one that got me to give up) was that "It's impossible to utilize TIR technology in an automotive lamp." Yea, I give up.

 

I've captured this in 2nd Gen headlights. There is significant gaps in output out of the bi-directional LED that fails to illuminate many of the headlight flutes causing irregular output.


Take a look at the resulting pattern examples run in a late model 2nd Gen Tacoma light (each running one headlight):

Philips X-tremeUltinon Gen1 H4 LED


Philips X-tremeUltinon Gen2 H4 LED


Stock standard OEM Osram H4 (yes this is one headlight)


There is no question that using a bi-directional LED in a halogen reflector housing designed for an omni-directional halogen light sources has some significant pattern distribution issues. The patterns look nothing like stock.

 

Thats awesome that you were able to get photographic confirmation of this!! What people don't seem to understand is that this same distribution is a factor in projectors too, just it can't be seen behind the lens. I am going to save this post as a visual reference when informing people about lighting, usually family and friends. Thanks again Crash!!

 

Oh no you can see it on projectors too. Ill try to take a picture of mine tonight, you can see the light on the plastic lens and there is a very distinct hourglass shape where there is no light.

 

Much harder to photograph, but yes. Here is a copy/paste from the original post (the halogen reflector image is in there too).

You can see the halogen filament on center, with reflections off the rear of the projector concentrating the light into a focused hot spot. And recall smaller light sources create better focus for higher intensity.



Compared to the LED, there is no center focus at all. It is difficult to say if those even reflect off the back of the projector since they are side firing, but for focus you should have light in the very center of the housing, and it is absent. Affect on the beam is predictable.

 

My lenses (the outer shell) is pitted from sand, so they have a slight haze. I can see the hourglass shape on them.

I have the huriko or whatever they are called LED bulbs and hate them. THey look super bright, but they do not throw light very well. Im working on going back to HID with a rx350 swap this winter.

 

If the lens is pitted you should go ahead and sand whats left of the UV hardcoat off and use a uv curing product like LiteRight or a 2k clearcoat spray paint. Pitting and visible loss of clarity means a lot of light isnt making it through the lens.

 

I've been roughly following this thread for a long time, and have had this in my Amazon shopping cart, ready to buy when the wife's new 3rd gen lease showed up.

Tungsram H11-55NHP/BP2 Nighthawk Platinum Automotive Bulb, 2-pack

Tungsram H11-55NHP/BP2 Nighthawk Platinum Automotive Bulb thinking this was the best choice.
but now that the new truck is here and ready to buy new bulbs for, I just looked at post#2 and the recommendation is the Philips H9s.
did I misread at some point about how the tungsram nighthawk platinums perform compared to the Philips H9s?

Just wanted confirmation that for performance (trimming tabs is easy), the Philips H9s are still the most recommended?

thanks!

 

Philips H9 are the top dog in terms of output. The high efficiency H11's are fun, a little bit whiter, and a recent set of Tungsram Nighthawk platinum were close to Philips in price. But Philips H9 from Rock Auto at $6 each is simply unbeatable price for performance.

No tab trimming is needed. You can simply remove the green inner plastic on your H11 connectors and they will plug right in. I also have replacement H9 connectors for anyone who wants a yellow inner plastic piece or damages their H9 or H11 connectors and wants to de-pin and re-pin.

 

Those Tungsrams are the best in terms of direct H11 replacement. The Philips H9 swap is higher performing overall, though not as white. Being an H9 it will be a little trickier to seat in the H11 bulb socket, but still doable.

 

ive driven at night once in like 9 months and they seemed to work for me but I also live in a city so theres light all over anyway

 

We just got street lights this summer...

 

I finally got around taking a picture of the led headlights to show off the crap pattern it shows on the lens.

 

Cross-posted from my build thread.

JW Speaker 7" round heated J2 vs heated J3 headlights



J2 left vs J3 right


Comparing the J3 vs J2 patterns side-by-side, it is easy to see the J2s offer better hot spot and superior output intensity despite the J3s being the premium model. The J3s hot spot is not very focused/well defined. The side-by-side comparison does conceal some other differences though.

Single J2s


vs single J3


The J3s have more light above the pattern cut off (glare) than the J2s, but also have more light and a more uniform light distribution below the main pattern for foreground light. The J2s have a more focused region of output in the upper portion of the beam pattern near the cut off with darker regions in the lower pattern (foreground light) that the J3s do a better job of seamlessly filling.

Low beam J2 uses a single large projector and 2 large semi-circle optics for the low beam


The J3 uses 1 small projector, 2 small and 3 medium semi-circle optics for the low beam, plus the J DRL.


On the J3s the projector is responsible for the hot spot and ECE sloped style cut off, while the multi-semi-circle optics fill in the rest of the pattern.

Low beam output intensity


The J3s are rated at 1320 actual lumen output vs the J2s 750actual lumens. Despite the J2s lower output, they come in at ~31% higher output intensity on low beam by my measured numbers. JWs specs state the J2s should be ~41% higher in peak Cd.

J2 high beam


J3 high beam


The J2 and J3 have very similar high beam patterns, extending the hot spot above the cut off and having a more traditional projector down road focused high beam that lacks the flood feature often seen in OEM high beam assemblies. The J3s do look to do a slightly better job in filling in the pattern with more light outside the hotspot region.

Both the J2s and J3s use 'Dual Burn' meaning the low beam optics are left on with the high beam optics. On the J2s the high beam activates the lower projector and the 2 smaller semi-circle side optics. J2 high beam pictured.


On the J3s, the high beam uses 3 small projectors at the bottom of the assembly. If you look closely at the J3 high beam output shot, you can actually see striations in the pattern due to the 3 projectors vs the J2s single projector. [Likely not visible on small screen mobile]. J3 high beam pictured.


High beam output intensity


My numbers show the J2 high beam being ~17.6% higher in peak output intensity. According to JW speaker specs, the J3s should be about ~27% higher in output intensity. I don't have a great explanation for this discrepancy. 2 points I would consider
1) For high beam in a combination automotive headlamp assembly, I don't use the typical 15-20 minute run time for a stable high beam measurement sine high beam use is usually much shorter than that.
2) My J3 lamp had a defective heater. I had one lamp where the heater didn't work at all, and it turns out this second lamp wouldn't turn the heater off. At first I thought the garage may be too cool, so I heated it to 67 degrees for repeated testing. Even at 67 degrees the J3 heater would turn on and trip my smaller power supply. If you look at the first image in this post, you can see the J3 pulling 5A off the large power supply, while the J2 pulled 1.63. This was because the J3s heater would not turn off. In theory I wouldn't anticipate this affecting output results, but just calling out al the details.

It is worth noting that the J3s offer many more features including integrated turn signal, off-road cornering light, off-road light boost and a light show feature. However the later 3 are bluetooth controlled via phone. While the boost and cornering light features would be readily welcomed, I find I don't use them because I'm not pulling out my phone when I want to see better while driving so I don't consider them a deciding factor for my use.

After a year of driving with the J3s and feeling somewhat underwhelmed, I'm looking forward to street testing the J2s.

 

Just put some philips H9’s in my low beams, do I need to worry about the factory fuse blowing with the added wattage?