Rivian fully electric 4x4 - the future

i certainly agree that lithium mining is terrible, cobalt is even worse. Colbalt is especially terrible since it heavily exploits child labor for some VERY nasty mining. It is good to see manufactures switch to cobalt free batteries. The lithium still remains but unlike gasoline it CAN be recycled.

The few sources I have seen on the topic identify that regarding (co2) emissions the turning point is between 6 months and 2 years. As in within 1/2 to 2 years making the battery (and using it) results in less emissions then the emissions from a reasonably efficient gas car, again in co2. The average batter is expected to last well over ten years (shitty Nissan Leaf implementation not withstanding). That means the battery has FAR less emissions , and those numbers were with the more dirty electricity sources (arguments into full effects of solar and win not withstanding)

bottom line they are NOT worse then a gas car, not by a far margin. Heck, just look at the energy usage. 34 kWh in a gallon of gas. That means a 34mpg car uses 1kwh per mile or 1000Whr/m. A Tesla 3 uses 250 WATT hour per mile. That means a Tesla is using one QUARTER the energy per mile compared to a 34mpg car.

The argument electric cars have the same, or worse, emissions has been shown to be decidedly false

 

I hope that the info is true. But I'm heavily suspicious of it if it came from anywhere connected with the electric car industry. Runoff pools leaching into the soil from mines, who knows how far the effects of such things will reach. You touched on the direct human impact.
As I said. I'm not against electric or other green options. I just think it's a very big complex picture and it should be looked at carefully

 

All day. All damn day

 

It is and it is really hard to find good info on it. Since this is a hot topic on both sides it is always good to approach all info with a heavy does of skepticism.
The thing to remember, imho, is that one of the common tactics is to over simplify the discussion and claim one “bad” is the same as another “bad”. That doesn’t go one direction either though and the rhetoric is strong on the other side too, I have even seen some claim it takes more energy per mile to refine gas then an a electric would use (it’s not, not in the least).

btw, I will admit my comment above relies heavily from some car guys on YouTube (supported with some independent research mind you). Those guys make a living doing videos about cars, cars that are primarily gas powered and the videos primarily for guys who are not the strongest market for electrics. Not the greatest source but I cannot find anything that refutes it

 

If your looking for good sources, check out https://scholar.google.com
You'll still need to wade through predatory journals, but it's a nice way to start a search. I usually double check sources in https://retractionwatch.com/

 

You are a zealous little camper aren’t you…

 

No, that is actually YOU, you just don’t see it.

 

Thanks!

Another for finding research, or getting to research at least, is Sci-hub.

 

‘I know you are, but what am I’

classic…

 

If a battery pack is replaced it is then used once again in other ways or recycled. The thought is by some that if the pack is replaced the old pack is thrown into a landfill or in the ocean. That's just not the case.

 

Supposedly Tesla can recycle 92% of their batteries.

https://electrek.co/2021/08/09/tesla-battery-cell-material-recovery-new-recycling-process/

 

Ford is starting their recycling plant, some startups are using old packs for backup options for homes and businesses. The startups for EV battery recycling are popping up. Once Lithium and cobalt is phased out it in EV batteries will be ideal for all.

 

Yup. I’m just hoping for a 200 mile highway range motorcycle with fast charging. As far EV cars have come EV bikes have… not.

 

If people will crawl under your vehicle to steal your catalytic converter. How are you going to secure your extension cord when charging your EV?

 

Being a rider myself I'm interested in an EV bike too. Range just isn't there yet though the Zero SR/S EV bike is claiming 227 mile range.

 

227 miles city. Real world highway you’re getting like 80 miles if you ride conservative. I don’t ride conservative so I’d realistically get 40-50 miles. That limits it to being just being a super expensive commuter.

https://www.visordown.com/reviews/f...srs-real-world-review-and-motorway-range-test

 

Couple things:

-Where does the energy to charge all the future electric vehicles coming from? Meaning, is it any greener than an internal combustion engine?

-Are electric vehicles sustainable from the standpoint of battery raw material supply? My understanding is this is the number one material limiting factor.

 

or facts, but you don’t want to hear it so you find a reason not to listen. In the end I’m not the one in a thread about electric vehicles who's only contribution is to post a picture of a coal mine and then claim everybody else is biased. You ignore any actual point that is made against your arguments and just make little ad hominem comments, you provide no support information, no rational discussion, no counterpoints, no quantifications, nothing. When pressed on any one issue you fold and try and find a stone to throw instead. You want to claim it’s others who are biased but that’s a spectrum, and if you are on the end then everyone is to the left of you. But I’m sure that because I’m arguing against you then you think I must embody everything you dislike, you will ignore the fact I drive a Tacoma and tell yourself I’m an enviro nut, it couldn’t be because you disgrace rational discussion and post foolish things. Anyone who disagrees with you has to be from the “other” side because it couldn’t possibly be your failings it HAS to be theirs.

in the end you only see it as a mirror of yourself. If they are not agreeing with you then they must be the opposite of you.



“The easiest to manipulate are those who see things in black and white. Nothing is black and white, just show them a little gray and how it’s NOT black or NOT white and you can control them as you want.”

 

I see I’m very late to the game on both questions and there’s some good discussion here to weed through.