Warm up

Good point. Some engines handle it better than others too. Cold starts on a previous 5.4L I had were like nails on a chalk board. But we won't get into that rabbit hole with the 2 and 3 valves... It's a mess.

Blackstone has always pointed me in the right direction.

 

Wife's Subaru has butt warmers. Even tho we live in the desert, where temps might drop to a frigid 40 degrees in the dead of winter,
I'd sell my mother to the Taliban to have butt warmers in the truck.... are they offered on the higher end trim levels?

 

I'd say yes. Of all the vehicles I've owned, this one takes the longest to get up to operating temperature. I have seen longer in the Nissan Frontier/Xterra though.

 

A car stereo shop can install them for a few hundred.

 

Old Dodge slant six engines took a lifetime to warm up it seemed...

 

Respectfully, I reject your theoretical position on idling causing harm to an engine. My position is not based on theory, but fifty years of driving, engine building and racing experience, both drag and track roadracing. At present I own a '93 4Runner with 413,000 on the odometer. I also own a '97 Chevy 1/2 ton 350 with 293,000 on it and a 2007 Ranger with 192,000. Previously sold two 1987 Novas, one with 187,000, the other with a little over 190,000 when sold. That's not including an '81 C1500 that I drove daily for 16 years, many of those years under extreme duty, carrying a cab-over camper while towing a bass boat. None of these cratered due to warmup idling. All used hardly any oil, except the 4Runner which in the last 100,000 or so burns about 1/2 quart every 3000. I'll stick with warming up my engines before putting a load on the bearing surfaces. As for your oil blow-by hypothesis, have you taken your engine apart to verify same, and by what metric did you measure this occurrence? Regardless, who among us doesn't run a can of SeaFoam every now and then to deal with carbon build-up?


I back my claims with over 1,300,000 miles of real-world high-mileage experience. I own my shop and do most all of my own valve jobs when needed. I am inside my engines on these occasions and can witness to their progressive internal condition at interval. Get back with me with your results when you have done the same. I'd like to compare notes with you then.

 

Was the truck originally purchased in a cold climate State? If not, maybe they make a 195 degree thermostat for it

 

I have no dog in the fight either way, but what would you guestimate the average amount of time is that you
allow the engines to 'warm-up'.

 

As someone who does a ton of idle hours on a work vehicle and has seen what idling can do to diesel engines, I disagree that idling can't cause harm.

However, I do agree with you that warming up your engine is not what is going to cause that harm. Extreme idling is what will cause harm (hours at a time or within a short period of time, repeatedly).

 

Back when engines weren't built to the close tolerances they are now and when the metallurgy was not what it is now I use to warm them up about two minutes. Use the heat to close the tolerances somewhat. You have to think in terms of putting a little heat into the automatic transmissions too. Now I do it for about a minute. Except for my G8. It isn't stock, so I exercise extra care with it. Besides, I like to listen to that idle lope. As for diesels and fleet vehicles I strongly agree that long hours of idling are detrimental. However, they usually succumb not to idle-inflicted wounds, but being flogged like a rented mule when they aren't idling. Except...That 2007 Ranger I have was an IBM copier service fleet vehicle. The guy that drove it babied the shit out of it. They make them turn them in at 150K. They had to take it away from him at 158K. He didn't want to give it up. It doesn't burn a drop of oil. Or leak a drop either. Never had a vehicle with 150K+ not have an oil leak, usually the rear seal or a valve cover, but this one doesn't.

 

Even in extreme cold, all is needed is maybe 2 mins of idling. Then just drive it gently.

Sitting there idling just wastes your gas and dilutes oil with gas because your engine is running rich.

 

I'm here in the connecticut corner bordering ma. and ny...was -4 this morning, and i had to take a ride into town around 11 am. Friggin tacoma took nearly 5 miles on secondary roads before throwing sufficient heat. I stopped at a traffic light in town watching the engine temp gauge drop from normal to 1/3 way toward cold. Dir the same last year when this cold...wtf kind of cooling systems do these trucks have? My gen1 tundra took less than 5 minutes to throw heat. This is progress after 20 years? give me a break!

 

I experience this in my mountains near my home when I'm coming down the Olympics. It's like I had to pull over for the truck to warm back up lol

 

My 20' Sport has heated seats. They are the full seat and work fantastic.

 

Yes I noticed that too.

It’s especially annoying when I go snowboarding. I gear down on the way back from the mountain and it only gets to normal operating temps when I hit the highway.

 

While heated seats are nice to have, but frosted windshield's are not. I like to see where i'm driving. I throw the defrost on, and i can down my breakfast before it defrosts enough. You'd think these newer high tech vehicles would be better.

 

My 1990 Range Rover had a heated front windshield and it was awesome never worrying about fogging, ice build up or scraping the window.

 

Debate is a good thing so I respectful retort.

My position is based on experience. And facts.

#1. The rings have spring tension on them to initially seal the cylinder but what really creates the pressure is combustion. The combustion pressure pushes the rings down and then out against the liner. At idle the pressure to accomplish this is much lower then under load.

#2. More and more engines today are built with low tension rings to reduce intial friction making combustion pressure that much more important to seal the cylinder.



When I built race engines, I always built them looser to reduce the internal friction and get as much out of them from the start. Granted I was doing this as a hobby and not some drag race team. So yes, I may have seen the inside of an engine a time or two.

I also see the high service rates required on high idle vehicles in the fleet of vehicles that I help maintain as my daily job.

The other thing to mention is that when people look for a used vehicle, they put a premium on a vehicle with highway mileage. And people advertise it as a good thing. Vehicles that are city driven don't get that same mention or attention. The difference of course is idle time. A city driven vehicle has had lots of time idling at a light, vs. the steady state driving of highway mileage. This reduces the life.

Now I also understand that maintaining the engine properly will negate some of this but most people don't see idling as severe duty and maintain a regular duty service schedule.

 

I have heated seat in my Sport but they do not work as well as my Venza's did. The Tacos seats take forever to heat your buns. The Venza within3 minutes you could feel the heat.