low speed vibration

3 years ago, the shop in trying to solve an occasional clunk sound I was getting replaced the "upper right front ball joint", then later a "lower ball point" (no specific location) that finally solved the problem. How many ball joints does a 2wd have? Are these in the wheels?

That particular problem 3 years ago was a clunk, a little hard to reproduce at the right speed, which I could feel coming from more under my butt, and not causing a vibration. The current issue is a perfectly repeatable vibration that I feel mostly in the steering wheel, totally different feeling. But if there's more than one type of ball joint location then I guess it could be one?

 

You have 3 ball joints to be concern with...on each side...all of em fairly easy to replace....because they're already pressed in the fixture....
Upper.....lower....and tie rod.....

Any of them can cause that vibe.....but the wheel wiggle would suggest lower or uppper ......or both....

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I found a few videos on checking ball joints. While I hate dealing with problems that take time to maybe or maybe not figure out, I love knowing how to quickly check something. It seems almost criminal that car owners aren't provided with a guide of a dozen easy things to check besides fluid levels. Even the Chilton repair manual says nothing about this. What the heck?

So with my wheel knocking when wiggling with hands at 12 and 6, that should be upper or lower ball joint, while a wiggle at 9 and 3 would be the tie rod, right? When I get my truck back I'll do this with a camera back there.

When I told the shops this tire wiggle test they both talked about wheel bearings, nothing about ball joints. Since I'm guessing both ball joints replaced a few years ago were on the right side (I'll call the shop and see if they have a better record), it would make sense that a left one is going out now.

 

Yeah if your wheel bearings were that loose.....there would be a god awful noise coming from those bearings driving down the road.....the pads would scrape the rotors as u make turns......on the side the bearing is shot or loose...

If the ball joints are that loose....u should be getting excessive tire wear......

 

Any wheel movement SHOULD require an additional inspection to pinpoint a root cause. Using generalities/rules of thumb (6/12 = bearing, 9/3 = tie rod) will just result in a parts canon until the movement is gone. If the wheel moves, you need to look behind it at what is moving. Ball joints, tie rods, bushings, wheel bearings, even worn springs/shock components, can all contribute to potential wheel movement. If you can replicate wheel movement by hand, it will be enough to see visually.

It also sounds like you need to familiarize yourself more with the suspension setup and understand what you have before you ask shops to look at certain items. At a minimum, I suggest finding the FSM (it's not hard to find a link to it if you search on here) and looking at the diagrams relating to the suspension components. It shouldn't be a surprise to you to find out how many ball joints or bushings you have.

Although, while I understand @O'Silver_Taco counting a tie rod as a ball joint, cause it does have one on it, I wouldn't call it a ball joint. For example, if someone asked me to replace the ball joints on their truck, and got mad at me afterward for not replacing their tie rod as well- that's on them for not being specific.

 

Got the truck back, and as I expected, they didn't fix either vibration issue.

Front wheel knocking in this video, holding at 12 and 6. See anything that might be it?

 

What in the double hell? Those front hub bearings are way, way too loose.

 

Yeah? It does kinda feel like it's in the area of the hub or bearings, if I would have to guess. Maybe a hub bolt not tightened? A shop said they already checked the bearings.

I can only kind of confirm it feels like that area based on the FSM diagram and the lack of any obvious looking play in the ball joints etc. I have never gone further than removing the wheel and am not sure what parts will fly out. I'm happy to give to a shop again if I can isolate it to the hub.

 

Didn't you mention that a shop "repacked" the bearings for you?

 

One checked the bearings this week, repacked the bearings several months ago.

 

Update -

The most severe problem is still the shaking that began on 1/10 when the mechanic changed the U joints, transmission mount, and brake fluid.

I put in new OEM spark plugs and wires today. I thought perhaps the mechanic spilled brake fluid on a spark plug boot and it leaked, causing a minor misfire. Nope.

A friend recounted how a mechanic put an aftermarket transmission mount on his vehicle (unsure of vehicle make, not a Toyota) and it caused shaking. He needed the OEM mount to fix the problem. I can confirm the mechanic put an aftermarket on mine, $24. Could that be the problem? Is there a way to diagnose by jacking slight pressure at the mount or some safe part (?) of the transmission and see if the shaking stops? I have a new jack coming in a few days. The shaking is constant in park, so I'll be able to tell.

 

I was going to suggest this….new trans mount could be stiffer, explaining the vibration at idle.

 

Update -

I put the front end on stands and pushed up the transmission pan 1/2" with a jack and protective board, with no change in vibration behavior. Same for the oil pan.

Just as a reminder, the transmission mount is a new aftermarket that the mechanic put in because the rubber on my original was torn up. Engine mounts are original. I suspect the mechanic messed up something when he put it on the lift to do the transmission mount and U joints, if it's not simply the transmission mount that doesn't work good on this.

Here's the specific vibration pattern in each gear when parked or on stands. 3 is a strong vibration, 2 is moderate, 1 is light, 0 is great.
P: constant 2 vibration
R: 0 vibration while it shifts into gear for 1/2 second, then 3 vibration for 1/2 second, then constant 1
N: constant 2 vibration
D: 0 vibration while it shifts into gear for 1/2 second, then 3 vibration for 1 second, then constant 1

In the cab I feel it more in the steering wheel than anywhere else. Not so much the pedals or floor, but I start to feel it everywhere when it gets to a 3. This might be telling?

I felt around with my hand and I feel the vibration on the engine and transmission to the same degree. Frame is not vibrating. Bottom of mounts are not vibrating. I video'd the bottom of the motor and transmission and there's no movement it picks up besides the shift lever. No ticking noises, and no knocks at any point while driving, just some variation of the above vibration changes that happen as I come to a stop sometimes or start crawling forward.

Anything else to test, to try to isolate it to one of the mounts or something else?

I have a stethoscope but I'm not sure what to check or if it would really help with this since it's more of a shaking than an audible noise.

 

This is weird. Between the shaking felt (while parked) through the steering wheel, and the extreme movement of the front wheels (your video) I would suspect the steering rack isn't mounted correctly. To repeat what @Andy01DblCabTacoma stated above: "If the wheel moves, you need to look behind it at what is moving". Also, if you could lift the trans and engine 1/2 inch without moving the whole truck (you weren't specific), I suspect the mounts are not correctly attached. Look for movement in the mounts when you jack the engine and trans.

Lastly, if you can't solve this yourself, then I suggest you find a reputable shop and describe the vibration and the work that was done (provide copies of invoices), nothing more. By speculating, you may bias the mechanic into fixating on the wrong thing. A good mechanic should follow an objective and thorough diagnostic strategy, but that's not always how it works.

 

if this is the case, then the pilot bearing on the shaft could get worn out as well

 

Just to clarify, what precisely in my post leads you to this conclusion? Also, OP describes an automatic transmission (Park, drive, etc), so I don't believe it has a pilot bearing (please correct me if I'm wrong).

 

Cool, I'll lift at the trans and engine pans again and report back on the specific movement. Not sure offhand. Should I keep going to see how much it takes to pull out the slack and start lifting the whole truck? I'm not going to damage a pan by putting all the weight at it with a 2x4 at least the width of the pan?

 

I think you need to narrow down that specific vibration you're trying to fix, cause it now sounds like more than one.

If the truck is at a standstill, and you're in P or N, and something is vibrating, it can only be something from the motor. If it's in D with your foot on the brake, then you're adding in the transmission. But either way, nothing should be shaking your steering wheel at a standstill. Looking for causes in the suspension or steering will not solve that.

 

the last bearing on the driveshaft. (i forget the technical term)

if the transmission is loose, then it can change the angle of the driveshaft and wear out the "pilot bearing" .

not all taco models have the same linkages on the drive system though. so some don't have a pilot bearing.

 

Right, in my OP it was a vibration only at certain speeds while driving, and as soon as the mechanic touched it this new one came up, and I'm focusing on it for now because it's bigger and more constant. I almost wonder if the mechanic's new trans mount and U joints are actually great to the point that the work moved the motor slightly back into the correct position that made bad motor mounts suddenly reveal themselves with shaking. Is that a thing?

For the steering wheel vibrating at a standstill, do you mean it has to be coming from the motor, or are you saying it shouldn't be possible? The steering wheel doesn't really visibly shake, it's just where I feel the low frequency vibration/shake. None of this is scary shaking that impacts my driving, but it's enough to be annoying.