Marlin Crawler's New Rock Crawling Long Travel IFS Suspension System (#RCLT)

I would have gotten that if I even knew that was an option. My truck hasn't even been outdoors and I am definitely not near the ocean.

 

I appreciate you taking the time to respond to us. I am one of the customers that you never got back to about the supplied marrack bushing needing to be machined to fit. Not a big deal, but just slowed down the install while waiting for you to respond. About the body trimming. Putting details in the appendix of instructions is not being "up front" about something. Especially when you are very upfront about "Ability to run 35" tires without body mount modification". Why not put an asterisk or a note right there saying "body trimming is required"? This is significant for a couple of reasons. A body mount relocations is way easier than fender and wheel well trimming. Way way easier. Also a 2nd gen will require much more trimming than a 3rd gen because your headlights are smaller and higher. Also, and here is the important part. You released the instructions months AFTER you started taking orders! That means people paid in full, ordered all the required components axles, coilovers, special wheels, marrack etc and then you released the instructions where you were very "up front" about trimming required in the appendix (the end of the 50 pages of instructions). You can say people should have known about your TW thread and what you trimmed, but what if they didn't know about that forum?

Anyway. My kit is installed and the trimming is done. But I dont think you were very up front about what was required.

 

Can we get a TLDR version with less virtue signaling and horn tooting.

 

Just when I finished my first bowl of popcorn, time to nuke a second

 

I tried using black oxide bolts on my bumpers once, never again. Black oxide hardware literally rusts the second it leaves a controlled climate/indoor environment. I had them on my bumper for maybe 48 hours before they turned completely orange. Socal summer climate, no rain.

 

Might be stale by the time he responds again next year.

 

Yoooooo! Monrovia! I'm in Altadena.

 

Grew up in Highland Park, lived in Monrovia from 88 until 96. Presently in Glendora..

 

This must be your first time reading one of his posts

 

FTFY. lol

 

Thank you for the reply Tac05! Great to chat with ya here. I'm not returning to this thread without expecting some push back and while I haven't had time for forums these days I am glad to be having this chat with you

I am familiar with your particular install and have been following it on T.R.D.'s IG page. In September I discussed by email the issue with the P/S line adapter and in October we emailed back thanking T.R.D. for their help. I am not aware of any missing emails after that and am very, very! sorry for the delays it caused. The next instruction update will include more details on this step including measurements from your install so others won't have to go through the same issue.

I understand. The #1 listed goal is to fit 35s without body mount modification which is why that is prominent. To understand your stance on this better, were you originally planning on running 35s but then switched to the 40s?

A body mount relocation is rendered irrelevant by RCLT HD and is a thing of the past. We do not recommend anyone relocate their mounts, so no modification is definitely the easiest approach.

I think you are misunderstanding what we state. The body mount frame bracket, the body mount itself, the cab, the wheel well, and the fender from hub center line back do not need to be relocated or trimmed to fit 35s with maximum up-travel (verified with 16.5" compressed length shocks). For this reason we only state, "likely the rear trailing edge of the front bumper will need to be trimmed as well as the fender in front of the tire." Fitting 35s is nearly a bolt-on affair now that RCLT HD exists.

If you look back at the first page of this thread, in February of 2019 we illustrated how there is ample clearance behind 315/70R17 tires, requiring no sheet metal or frame trimming needed anywhere behind them. This same image has been on our product website since July of 2019.

I am sorry but you are mistaken my friend. This information has been on our website and the opening page of this thread for over two years prior to taking the first order.

YES, dude, Seriously I've been waiting and waiting to see what you think about the ORIs because they avoid having to mess with Limit Straps which means the only welding required is for only our HD Steering which is such a cool approach you took. I am super excited to hear how it pans out. Thomas has already invited me to Maui and my wife and I have been needing an excuse to get back to the Islands so who knows maybe this year we could meet up and go do some lava rock expedition!

Regards,
BigMike

 

It's true. I like the "let's post 10 times instead of consolidating into one to help our visibility" approach. So savvy

 

We should get a local trail run together. Still desert season for the time being.

 

Again, I appreciate the response. What information about trimming in front of the tire was on your website in Feb 2021? As I said before, there are people who are still not aware of this forum so it isn't an acceptable form of being "up front" about anything. Trimming some of the bumper and fender is a bit less involved than cutting out the wheel well for up travel. I am only running 37s. I dont think it would be possible to run 40's because the head lights on the 2nd gen are so much bigger and lower than the 3rd gen.

Here you can see how far the 37s go. 40s would be inside the headlights:



I am overall happy with the kit and happy that I have a good friend capable of doing the extra work needed to make it work. I am just motivated to make it clear that your site isn't up front about how involved the install is. I honestly didn't want to cut into the wheel wells or fenders of my truck. But once I realized that the kit wouldn't perform as expected unless I did, I was committed.

Again, I appreciate you responding. I think I might be an advocate for companies taking responsibility for things. In this case saying "You know what, if you don't think we were very clear about what was required for the install, maybe we should revisit that and make things more clear." Will that affect your sales? Most likely. Will that affect the trust people have in you and your company? Most likely.

I am excited to see how the ORI's work. We did need to install limit straps and bumps with them because the axles were binding at full droop so we needed to limit the droop and the ORIs are shorter the the equivalent 8" radflos, requiring bumps to limit the up travel before the ORI bumps were active. They will be good for sway and roll over balancing though.

Again, I am super happy with the kit. It is an engineering marvel, I just wanted to point out that some things aren't as up front as you might think they are.

 

Thank you for the added info, this is fantastic feedback. I really like the work you guys are doing over there. You are correct that we do not state body trimming info/advice or provide any guides for both applications using tires over 35-inch and applications not using our supplied bump stops.

This never crossed my mind because regardless if it's RCLT HD, or Total-Chaos, or a Solid Axle Swap, I felt it is implied that fender lines made for 31" tires at stock ride height will need to be cut to fit 35"+ tires at 3 to 4" lift, especially with the added wheel travel capability of our kit or an SAS. Similarly, we do not list that a vehicle's braking distance will increase with the use of larger than stock tires or that the center of gravity will increase. Or how about this: In California an RCLT HD could be legally installed with 44" tires and no added lift by reusing original OEM factory Toyota struts which would require trimming to the hood.

Please trust I'm not saying these things to demean, but rather to expose how far removed my mind is from what the customer needs to see regarding the topic of trimming.

As stated I copied the Install Overview from our instructions to our product page, and after considering your feedback I added the following with the same bold emphasis to our site:

Thoughts, suggestions on this? It is added to the main product page just above furthur_off_road's unboxing and trail testing videos: https://www.marlincrawler.com/RCLTHD

We have done 40s onto a 2G Tacoma (2011 TRD Pro) without relocating headlights, battery, etc., because the plan with this one was retain fender flares. For the outside reader, remember this work is entirely optional because you don't have to run idiotically stupid large tires like this.









Body mounts never need to be relocated with RCLT HD. Even with 40s, just trim and plate.



Left extra clearance to account for body/frame flex



Note original orange fender flare clip at far-left



Did you receive an invitation email earlier today from our sales email account (sent to your order email)? All owners of RCLT HD now have access to an online database for installations and 1-on-1 RCLT HD support.

Thanks
BigMike

 

Hey man, honestly, you taking my feedback and updating the site is a huge win for me and I appreciate you doing that. I am already bought and installed, but I think it is the right thing to do for others. Thank you! I totally know what you mean by being removed from things because your reality and understandings are second nature, as they might be for 90% of people on here. But I came across your kit while shopping for a crawl box (had to go with trail gear because you were out of stock) and I saw your kit was on sale. I read everything on your site and was excited so I jumped in line. My understanding is vastly different from where I was then and can say confidently myself that trimming and cutting is required for ANY kit, even a low center of gravity SAS install, if you want to clear big tires and get all the travel you paid for. Just as in my own industry I need to be careful to not make an assumption about a client or customer having the same basic understandings that I do, I appreciate you making the effort to prevent that with your kit.

That 2G taco with 40s looks great. I am surprised by how little was trimmed. I wanted all the travel so we did all the trimming. I think there is another 2G on here running your kit with 37s who did about the same trimming as we did.

I did not receive this email you speak of. Double checked the spam folder too.

Thank you again. I do hope you come out for a visit! Otherwise I am sure we will see you on the trails out there soon.

 

Man this thread keeps getting better and better.

 

Going the extra mile to do all the trimming is so worth it in my opinion, especially for how important up-travel is with Rock Crawling. The extra work you've done here will pay huge dividends even just mobbing around town. Sucks to have to do it all up front while waiting to go play, but now you're one-and-done and that truck is set for life.

Ahhhh. I see what happened. I wrote a simple PHP script to extract a ton of emails, and then ran that through a duplication filter which I forgot omits emails with our domain name which yours happens to have as it's username. You've got mail!

BigMike