2025 EV Tacoma thread.

to plug it in!!!!

 

Since the vast majority of people who buy trucks don’t off-road that won’t be an issue. Just like everything else in life there isn’t a one size fits all solution to every problem.

 

Well you charge before you go on a trail ride.

 

This has been a great discussion. I've wondered for a while if offroad performance is why Toyota has pursued hydrogen fuel cell tech or if it's just sunken cost fallacy. Or both haha.

EV's will work great for 1st world countries where the infrastructure upgrades and distances to be traveled are reasonably achievable. However, a large portion of the world does not fall in to that category - the dude running a Hilux 90 miles through the backroads of Nigeria w/ 15 people sitting in the bed isn't going to be running an EV version of that truck anytime soon. I think Toyota understands that a large portion of the poorer parts of the world won't have the funds to upgrade grid infrastructure beyond a few solar panels here and there.

 

I thought the Rivian kind of set itself up to look silly. When it was shown serving wine out of it's bed side. If I want to drink wine outdoors I'm going to do it for free, down under a highway overpass.

 

I couldn't resist...

 

Lol

The pull out kitchen is cool on the Rivan, but I don't think I will be able to stop associating the RT1 with a wine tasting when I see one.

 

I post here because all the opinions don't match. It helps strengthen your arguments if there are differing points of view. I do see the basis of your comment though, ICE trolls. They alway be posting out of date, easily debunked or flat out lies just to get a rise out of people. I try not to take their bait. One thing that does give me laugh though, is how they get their panties in a bunch over people posting about owning an EV in an EV related thread.

It seems Rivian could learn a thing or two from Tesla. In the 5 months it took me to get my Tesla there were several price increases and they just honored original price. The window sticker price was more than I paid including fees and taxes.

One size does not fit all.

Toyota using the reason EV's aren't a good fit for 3rd world countries for not making EV's is silly. I think the real reason for delays in EV's from the big makers can be seen in history. In the 60's and 70's the Japanese started showing up in the US with junky, cheap cars. I was there, they were poorly made and cheap. The big boys said, "let them have the low end of the market. Americans want our cars not theirs." But, the Japanese did not sit on their laurels, their cars were continuously improving, and by the 80's they were eating the American car makers lunch. The big guys have some serious problems moving to EV's. The first is how to make EV's without killing their ICE business. I could seriously consider buying a Ford Lightening, but it will be a cold day in hell before I'd buy an F150. The second big problem is with their legacy contracts and unions. The unions are going to fight like hell to keep their engine and transmission plants running. I believe even to the point of producing FUD about EV's. (big oil is certainly in the FUD game too) The third problem is the lack of EV talent at the big auto makers. An ICE and EV motor couldn't be more different and require different skills to design.

 

This, imho.

Not anytime soon, but a couple kW of solar array is likely cheaper than shipping in a bunch of gasoline. And the truck is already the battery. Look at the F150 Lightning's new Power to House EVSE/Inverter combo - your truck is basically a giant battery for it. Add enough panel to actually L2 charge your truck and heck of a cabin install.

Okay EV troll.

 

Ford has a dedicated EV division ice will be separated from the EV side.

 

To be clear, I'm not an ICE troll. I can't wait to get my hands on an EV and plug that bad boy into my solar array here at home. IMO, I think the whole EV revolution is about 20 years late. With that said, I also think the BEV market is very overhyped at the moment and it's not going to be as "polarized" or revolutionary as some make it out to be (Not you BTW, just using your comments as a point for discussion)

I definitely agree with you about the big boys playing catch up, but at the end of the day, IMO it just comes down to money, as usual. And this applies itself in a few ways -

If there's still oil in the ground that can be sold at a profit, it will be sold until the last drop. ICE business won't be going anywhere anytime soon and all of the big guys know this. Hence the reason they're letting the "little guys" figure out how to make EV vehicles. If the little guys discover something, they'll just be bought up by Toyota or Ford or GM or Fiat. Just another day on wall street.

Toyota's market includes the entire globe, regardless of our opinions about where the vehicle market is going. It would be absolutely idiotic (even silly) of them to just pivot away from ICE and dump all of their R&D into an emerging technology that won't be used as primary mode of transportation by a good 3/4's of the planet's population (1st world countries make up only appx 25% of the world's population) anytime in the next 20 years. They make good ICE vehicles and they will continue to make money doing so until EV technology matures to the point that it is reliable, affordable and supported by a large enough market to justify the switch.

Toyota does what it always does and channels their inner Sun Tzu by letting their competitors pay for the R&D learning curve associated with being first to the market. So I disagree with you there, I think Toyota is thinking ahead with regard to their entire market share and just letting the battery tech get figured out and matured by someone else. They'll just buy the tech once it's matured to the point it won't cost them money to successfully implement it into their designs. While the market is going to eventually be dominated by EV's, and they've acknowledged this by being the pioneers of the hybrid electric vehicle market for the better part of two decades, they have the global perspective to understand that it's going to take time to get there and not everyone is going to get there via full BEV route.

I think a big reason Toyota was so interested in HFCEV's for 3rd world countries was due to the ability of photoelectochemical water splitters being able to produce hydrogen with solar panels and a bit of water running through your cracker. Such an operation can be set up literally anywhere in the world without a very robust electrical grid. The PEC splitter technology is already well established, solar panels do not require nearly the same amount of rare earth metals as a BEV batery, the required infrastructure for hydrogen fueling & transportation is nearly identical to current means of transporting petroleum, the energy density of pure hydrogen is nearly 120MJ/kg (gasoline sits at at about 50MJ/kg IIRC) assuming you can safely handle it and the transition to hydrogen wouldn't require a radical investment in a third world country's electrical grid. I think they're just looking at the alternate option to BEV's for the parts of the world not lucky enough to be born into 1st world privilege.

Now, whether this pencils out for them is anyone's guess. Like someone else said, they've dumped a ton of money into it with little to show for it. But given Toyota's track record and the recent developments in HFCEV fuel production, I don't think it's entirely unreasonable.

 

Yeah another pro for tesla. The first tesla , model 3 Performance we got took 2-4 weeks only and zero gimmicks with order and pick up. Akin to ordering a dominos pizza via app.
The other model 3 LR we ordered was waitlisted for 5 mo , but when pick up day came the final charge was exactly as day one . No BS dealer markup or rivian “gotcha “ price .

for the model Y I don’t like their prices at all right now . It’s making even the RAV4 prime with a low 40k look maybe reasonable.

Still, the overall tech (FSD) + weight (teslas usually have the lowest curb weight for full EV) make it hard to not pick them. Need the right price point .

 

yep, numbers don’t add up for me, has to be a reasonable financial investment.

I don’t see Montana’s post as being negative, just realistic.

If people really cared about conserving resources they surely wouldn’t be buying newly manufactured EVs. They probably should be either walking and bicycling everywhere. At least that is my goal, we moved to the town we are in for that reason. Trying to fully retire here in 5 years. Majority of all the things we need are within walking or bicycle distance, doctor, dentist is two blocks over….have 4 grocery stores within 1.5 miles, etc. Currently my wife’s work is 3/4s of a mile a way. When I retire will only need a vehicle for road trips.

So who is better for the environment my wife and I or the person who is commuting an hour or so in their EV?

Suggesting getting another job, or begging for a raise is rather silly. Generally that means you have to be more productive, doing so could consume even more resources. I think cutting back, conserving and changing lifestyle might be better.

I am self employed, the chances of me getting a raise is slim to none, as my boss is a dick! LOL!

 

Part of the EV "stigma" if you will (at least for me) is the way in which it's being artificially crammed down our throats. For the record, I think there's ALWAYS a better way to do things. If not, we'd still be on horses and lighting our houses with candles. With EV vehicles - if they're such a great thing, then why so many regulations, and forced benchmarks on the ICE? It seems as though the "natural" progression isn't being given a chance. Were we forced into cassettes or CD's over LPs? Nope...it progressed naturally, each phased out by better technology proven better over the last - not by laws and regulations. We gravitated towards it - until we reached a ceiling of sorts, which is where we are today - pretty much all music is downloaded and stored digitally. Same thing with video technology. Reel to reel-beta-VHS-DVD-Blu-Ray, and voila, we're at streaming. Notice the laserdisc went extinct all on its' own? Light bulbs? LEDs were kinda fringe at one point, and steadily gaining traction until a certain administration literally outlawed incandescent bulbs. They didn't go away - they were rushed away. Of course, look where we are now. Automakers aren't reacting to some uncontrollable demand, they're reacting to legislation and regulation, and we, the consumers, are screwed into overpriced and overhyped BS. That's not free-market economy - it's artificial. The same goes for solar and wind, they aren't proving to be the better mousetrap - nuclear and oil are being forced out. It's crap. Do I want to send a big F-You letter to the utility company and enjoy free power? Hell yeas. We just aren't really "there" yet to go all in on a full scale.

I find it pretty hilarious that so many of you are beating the pulpit for EV's and yet - own, drive, modify, and joined a forum for a gas-powered vehicle... I hear the Hyundai Ionic forums are awesome though, just food for thought.

 

They also make a ton of hybrids and if you look at their european sales, the highest amount of electrified and the lowest carbon intensity of all the majors. The hybrids, btw, which could relatively easily go PHEV as the market and battery production allows.

Except Tesla has the tax rebate phased out, while Toyota doesn't... so there's a 7500 advantage to getting the 'yota.

Now that part.. ehhh not so much. 'FSD' beta is gonna get someone killed. And the price bump for it is obscene.

I likely would still be driving my old TDI as a get around vehicle if it wasn't for the rebates. It's kinda hard to beat a fully paid off vehicle that gets 45-ish MPG. The taco's been relegated to 'offroad only' status, pretty much, with the Rav taking over for the ski resort runs. Mind you, I would have loved that powertrain in a more conventional 'wagon' shape, but no one makes those anymore either.

Hey my cargo bike gets something like 1k+ MPGes .. (depending on how much I pedal vs using the assist).

 

If you think it's being crammed down your throat then you're paying attention to it. The advertising is working on you. No one is forcing anyone to buy an EV. It's a choice for some but not all. Don't like it don't buy it. It's a binary choice. Plenty of ICE vehicles out there and will be long after we are in the ground. It's just another car choice.

 

Maybe the general political talk and media are a buzz with all the EV hype . Suspicion and annoying true…. But after owning many cars trucks , and now the Tesla it would be impossible to go back to ICE (even a m3 for example). When I drive our 2018 Tacoma it’s legit “1st world problems”. I’m exaggerating a bit , but there is a night & day difference from a silent ride that can blast 0-60 is the same time as most high end Sports cars , almost never use the brake pedal (one foot driving) , no gas station stops with rifraf asking for “some help” , plus all the “tech “ stuff that you get used to and eventually rely on (like climate control hot or cold the car before u get it in winter /summer ,autopilot in heavy freeway traffic, zero maintenance, all 6 cameras recording +streaming to ur cell phone, for insurance / theft/ vandalism prevention). I would liken it to : going from a 1999 cell phone to an iPhone. Initially you thought the iPhone was just a small laptop and you would never spend time watching videos or using the web browser. Also the idea of apps was may be just for fun initially or extra but after having an iPhone with apps like ur banking , work email , fitness apps , tech apps for ur drones/toys , and video chat apps ….going back to that Nokia phone is now impossible that u have been “sucked in “

 

Spot on my dude. Like you, my 2014 Tacoma is owned outright. Even paying for gas at $6.50 a gallon won't justify the cost of a new EV vehicle for a while. You can also bet Uncle Sam is going to figure out a way to make up the lost gas tax revenue by taxing BEV's in some form. So I play the numbers game until the EVs eventually pencil out.

I'm willing to bet the technology will bring the cost down to be competitive w/ ICE, but we're not there yet and I'd be willing to bet we won't really be there for another decade. I'm betting the development of super capacitors can play a factor in aiding with battery lifespan and instant charging/power demand so hopefully that happens sooner rather than later.

 

Some are just terrified of change.

 

Sweet! All of my bicycles are human powered. The e-bikes do look sweet though.