2025 EV Tacoma thread.

I mean … I have FSD and I think no one is getting killed that easily . On its own it’s absolutely insane how well it will drive compared to a “normal human driver” . Also the FSD beta you were talking about is in demo phase . that means only Tesla drivers (who also pay 12k or 199 a mo for FSD) AND who achieve a beta safety score of 99 or above will have access to demo it. You can’t just simply say hey let me try this and mess around and get in trouble. They basically only give it to people who really want it and who have achieved that 99 or 100 safety score through their full self driving subscription. U need that FSD subscription to even be eligible to be one of the lucky demo testers. We’re talking about people who pay $12,000 and who drive like a grandma for over a month to get a perfect safety score . then and only then will tesla grant u access to FSD beta , where u essentially agree to many terms and conditions . If the car catches you not paying attention or messing around too much immediately you are taken off FSD beta trial. I know from experience , they removed me because my safety score went down to 96! And I did nothing irresponsible! Nobody’s getting hurt or dying with FSD Beta while people are trying it out. You should maybe drive in a Tesla with auto pilot then a Tesla with full self driving subscription + full self driving beta 10 .
Don’t trust those Boomer news outlets that are confusing people by mixing The various features and scenarios where people got into crashes or so.

And even after all that , it’s impossible to say the opposite. How many lives or accidents were prevented because somebody was using auto pilot or FSD? Sort of a “ Survivor bias“ phenomenon. Not counting the Accidents caused by humans, Which were prevented by autonomous driving cars. I mean you can just use math and statistics. Statistically auto pilot and full self driving are much safe drivers than the average driver in America. Like rate per 100,000 is known and available to public.


Edit * In traffic I use auto pilot daily for almost a year now . At no point did it do something dangerous. Maybe if traffic is stopped way ahead the car won’t see it as fast as me but it’s still stops at a reasonable rate and wouldn’t be a rear end accident. The main disadvantage ,I think ,is that it follows the rules too well so the other human drivers get pissed off when it doesn’t go way over the speed limit (in the slow lane) or when it leaves a little bit of a space for following distance because people like to tailgate.

 

That's great until you're moving 100 pounds of kids and stuff up a 20% hill, on a 40lb bike.

https://electrek.co/2022/02/04/tesla-full-self-driving-beta-crash-video/
https://jalopnik.com/tesla-full-self-driving-beta-causes-accident-with-model-1848201350
https://www.theverge.com/2021/11/12/22778135/tesla-full-self-driving-beta-crash-fsd-california
https://www.businessinsider.com/tes...ash-complaint-nhtsa-electric-vehicles-2021-11

I don't - autopilot isn't FSD and all the incidents above are FSD.

 

Purchasing any new car ≠ financial investment. Buying a new car ICE or EV is financial folly. If money is the only measure, people should buy 3/5 year old cars that have had the worst of their depreciation covered by the dipshit that drove it off the lot.

Comparing walking with EV's simply isn't realistic. There is no way I could walk to work, too far for walking. There is no reasonable mass transportation. I could ride a bike, for one day. Then some impatient asshole will run me down and kill me. A car is a fact of life for the vast majority of people in the US. Ignoring edge cases where people can walk/bike/mass transit to work, what do the rest of us do?

Money isn't my only measure of something's value, sometimes I just like nice stuff. There are a lot of cars in the $60K price range and I could have had any one of them. I went with Tesla for a lot of reasons and saving the planet and money were way down the list, but still on the list none the less. Since money is important, lets compare apples to apples. If I bought a $60K ICE car the daily driving and maintenance expenses will be more that a Tesla, so the Tesla does save me money over a $60K ICE car. Second, I am saving the world by reducing my carbon foot print over an $60K ICE car. I've seen numerous studies from reputable sources that an EV has paid back its "debt" to the environment in 5K to 10K miles. Every mile after that an EV is better for the environment than ICE, even in coal burning West Virginia.

Tesla's are out of reach for many, but they are the standard by which all other EV's are currently measured. There are some less expensive and compelling cars from VW and Hyundia, but trucks rule on this forum and there are no reasonable offerings, period. The conversations would be more interesting if there were.

 

No doubt dangerous in that situation, but again , numbers. The handful of non fatal crashes over the 50,000 or so FSD beta users (not sure how they can confirm FSD beta vs autopilot) for all the total miles driven results in a very very low actual rate or risk of crash / death when compared to human miles traveled. Probably an order or magnitude lower.

thats akin to showing airline crash videos and saying look how dangerous and scary airplanes are ,cars are much safer because look at this video , the airplane crashed it’s bad. Yes frightening footage no doubt. But if taken in large numbers it’s much safer than a car for example.

Over all the miles and people on the roads the statistics matter. It would probably be just as easy for someone to search driving fail videos and watching people crossing lanes, road raging, speeding, falling asleep ,driving drunk or just making simple human errors and dying / crashing.

 

https://electrek.co/2021/04/17/tesl...er-chance-accident-than-average-car-data/amp/


Just look at miles driven per crash or fatal accident


Much like ev battery fires . They happen for sure . But compared to gasoline fires they are much lower

 

The triggered are going to be triggered no matter what. It's math. It's real. The price comparisons were for trucks like ours and the math checks out. But the EV fanboys just can't accept it. Most people can't afford to own both and have a tesla just to have it because it makes them think they are helping. But for the asshole that ASSUMES they make more than me, I'm willing to bet you don't and that is some serious small peen energy deflection. I'm not even going to quote such stupidity or engage with them being triggered over math. We all want to "progress" to cleaner energy. But not one single person can argue how EV's are made - it's not using clean energy and they are full of PLASTIC and other harmful materials... so is your house and everything you own. It's not about using clean energy. You buy into the marketing gimmick because it makes you feel better about yourself. The rest of us are waiting for an affordable solution that actually makes a difference. That is all. It's not hate towards EV, it's middle ground. A couple of you there is just no reasoning with and that is why you get the responses you do. I don't play nice with some people and I won't pretend to. If you see it as negative, then check what it's in response to.

 

Depends on the vehicle, I can turn around and sell my Tacoma more than what I paid for it. Tripled my money on the old VW Westy I had. Have couple others in the stable that I can sell for more than I paid for them. Yes, vehicles can be an investment, most are not.

And yes you are correct, people should buy used if finances are a concern.

Think you’re missing my point, which is a lifestyle change is probably better for the environment than an EV purchase. That is if you truly care about the the environment. I mean if I can do it, anyone can. Plethora of ways to earn an income than having to slog some miserable commute. If the pandemic showed us anything, most things can be delivered anymore. Doesn’t really take much to keep the country’s services running, a skeleton crew really, no need for millions of us driving everywhere.

Guess you never done any bike-backpacking?

 

I view your comments as a differing point of view, which I value. ICE trolls just get ignored. For all I know they're getting pissed at my comments right now. Here's another one to jimmy their jammies. I went to a surprise party at a friends house the other day. I had a bunch of food in the car so I parked out front, dropped off the food and then parked around the block so the "surprise" person wouldn't see my Tesla. I was parked for maybe 5 minutes. The party is going along great and I hear people talking about Teslas. That there was a Tesla parked out front, really 5 minutes tops. I haven't said the "T" word once, but based on the excitement of their comments it would have been a dick move on my part to not at least acknowledge the car was mine. After bunches of questions everyone wants to go for a ride. So, the truth is when you own a Tesla you never have to tell people, they will flat out ask you.

There are some little EV makers that could be bought, but what I've seen of them doesn't impress me all that much. I think the big guys are more like Sears. They have massive momentum and no way to change in time. It's not that they don't want to change, they just can't. Unlike Sears I do think they will continue to exist, just in a diminished roll as the Chinese EV makers take over the market like the Japanese before them.

I just don't get the fascination with hydrogen. Take solar panels and use the electricity to make hydrogen. Then use more electricity to compress the hydrogen to 10K PSI, which is no easy task. Then put it into a car and convert it back to electricity to power the car. Now rinse and repeat building the hydrogen plants all around the country. Or take natural gas, burn it to create steam, then use the steam to breakdown more natural gas into CO2 and H2. Then take more electricity to compress the H2 to 10K psi. Then use even more energy to transport the compressed H2 around the country. That's fine if you need H2 for other needs, but why not just burn natural gas in ICE engines, it would be far more economical. It seems like the simpler path would be to use solar panels and store the electricity in EV batteries? If rare minerals are a problem then use Lithium-iron-phosphate (LFP) batteries that have no nickel or cobalt. Tesla is using them in their standard range models today.

Well, there is one scenario where H2 fuel cells make sense, but not in 3rd world countries. You build pebble bed nuclear reactors and run them at 100% 24/7. When demand is low make H2 and sell it for HFCEV. Nuclear is green from the emissions perspective, but I can't imagine this ever coming to pass.

I know Toyota has smart people working for them, but I wonder if HFCEV is being driven by smart engineers or accountants. No, it's got to be accountants. The engineers would have calculated all the loses involved with HFCEV and said, dude this makes no sense.

 

Not recently. Kids and all. Used to be an angry urban commuter type.

So why are you conflating autopilot and FSD? First you accuse people of using 'boomer outlets', now YOU'RE using statistics from the L2 ADAS named "autopilot" to the L4(beta) system named 'Full Self Driving'.

Would I trust a system I had to constantly babysit? That misses objects and takes non-optimal lines? I'll just drive myself, thanks. Not to mention Tesla's idea of 'handover' is ridiculous - first you solve the UI problem of a graceful transfer of driving responsibility, THEN let's worry about a 'some roads, some conditions' type of system (L4).

Not to mention one that programs in activities that are illegal in every state (rolling stops, really?) as a default behavior?

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1134940_tesla-vehicles-recalled-for-rolling-past-stop-signs

"It dropped in the last firmware update and then omg I'm sorry officer I didn't know it would do that" ... Tesla does shit that's pretty effing inexcusable sometimes.

 

Hey man, I like my 'yota PHEV. It's made me mostly retire the Taco except for when I'm expecting mud or gravel for extended periods. Or if I need the winch or camping space, or towing or hauling truck-amounts of stuff.

 

You're right I did miss that point. Lifestyle change is better than the environment than an EV purchase, and where possible I couldn't agree more. Personally, I've moved into a smaller house, with a small yard, using native low water plants for landscaping. All of the appliances are high efficiency as well as the insulation in the walls, and I have solar. There's not much more I can do on the home front. One of the complaints I'd level at America's love-a-fare with the automobile is everything you might reasonably want to do takes a car. For me visit my son, car. Visit friends, car. Go to the store, car. Doctor, car. Work, car (I'm part of that skeleton crew keeping the lights on) The list of things that don't require a car is amazingly short and not having one would be crippling. An electric bike could fill some of those tasks, but look at my avatar. From November to March no way I'm riding a bike. I think saving the environment is important, but you have to live in the real world too. So for me an EV was just the next step in that evolution.

 

Advertising? Long after we're in the ground? Not sure about anyone else's plans, but I, for one plan to be around longer than the next 8-15 years or so. These are legislative actions I'm quoting here. Notice these headlines are talking about the forced eradication of ICE vehicles, not demand for electric vehicles. Automakers are getting ahead of the law by putting out more EVs - just smart business on their part.

Now, If any EV can fill these squares, like I said - would love to flip the bird to big oil, and just run my vehicle basically for free. **EDIT** Oh, and do it for a third of the cost of the Tesla Truck, New Chevy Silverdao, Ford Lightning, Electric Hummer or Rivian. Good luck.

• Plug it into something and charge it 25 miles into the wilderness, away from the nearest paved road, after the third day of off-road camping, and...

• Tow a 4K lb trailer on the way there, and...

• Not be subject to the inability to recharge after a hurricane (we're in Miami) leaves us without power for a week, and...

• Allows me to carry extra "fuel" so I can stay off grid for 3-4 days.

I think the EV fails miserable at all of these, at least for now.

 

There's no free lunch. It's all about transferring the wealth from the entrenched power brokers (no pun) to the new generation of robber barons.

 

GOSPEL!

 

Banning ICE vehicle sales does not go far enough . All personal vehicles should be banned in urban metropolitan areas based on population, period . All monies for urban transportation should be used for shared use , public transportation .
Rural areas of the country should be treated differently because their needs are different and should not be determined by the logistics of dense urban areas.

 

This is hyperbole right?

 

Demand for EVs IMO is hard to judge. For the last 50 years there hasn't been a legitimate option besides gas. EVs are starting to show up but in general you have a lot more gas options. It's not the free market deciding if they dont have a choice.

It's also pretty clear the big car manufacturers didn't care about EVs until they were forced. Once EVs and ICE compete on a level field we'll see what the market says. But I'd say that's at least 5-10 years away. But ya gotta start somewhere.

 

No , it makes a lot of sense . It is time to fix things for the future not just change from one type of energy to another to keep the status quo .

 

Makes no sense. Status quo?? Really???

EDIT Yeah you're just trolling