2025 EV Tacoma thread.

Yep, don’t think lith-ion is the answer. Fresh water is another looming issue, not too distant wars will be over it. Getting off fossil fuels is the least of our problems.

 

I agree completely re: the multitude of costs associated w/ FCEV. I think they were just assuming hydrogen would be processed in the same manner crude is refined today and that would happen sooner w/ a heavier emphasis on minimizing CO2 production. The lifecycle carbon cost, energy density and operating weight of an HFCEV is actually quite a bit lower than a BEV (see link below). I think the opposite happened - the design engineers said "Hey, the HFCEV will reduce our carbon impact the most when considering the full life cycle of our vehicle" and finance/accounting was overriden lol.

https://www.energy.gov/sites/default/files/2014/03/f9/thomas_fcev_vs_battery_evs.pdf

The other supplementary argument I can think of for going this route (besides sunken cost fallacy) is the fact lithium and other rare earth metals have a finite supply. I'm guessing Toyota thought that people would factor in the same inefficiencies and carbon footprint into lithium battery production and would also consider the fact we'll be damn near out of affordable lithium by 2030-2040 if we keep going at the demand we are w/ e-devices and EV's.

I mean, aluminum and sodium ion batteries will help shift the demand from lithium and the raw materials are very much readily available from a multitude of sources, along with the development of supercapacitors. However, a lot of those technologies are still in the R&D stages and won't be ready to implement for some time.

Miscalculating the demand of BEV's in the meantime isn't helping Toyota, but like I said before, I think they are just assuming they'll buy a battery tech and just plug it in to their version of the modern EV. They might be assuming that when the planet decides to actually get serious about minimizing carbon impact, they can transition to HFCEV down the road, since you really only need electricity to produce hydrogen. If you can scale up a green source of energy to crack your water, refine/compress your H2 with that same electricity and reuse existing infrastructure to distribute your hydrogen, you're doing the most to combat greenhouse gas production. Sounds like something an engineer might make an argument for lol.

 

Ha you read my mind my man. I made a decent argument for it in another post. Not saying BEV's are stupid or wrong, just I truly believe they are going to have their niche in urban settings whereas HFCEV's will be used for high demand applications.

 

So this will trigger the Musk haters, but he is predicting that his full self driving with replace the need to own a car entirely. In his utopia a driverless car would come to your door and take you to your destination. When you want to leave another would come to pick you up. All of this for a fraction of what it costs to own a car. I think this is the same world where flying cars are a thing, but think about it. There would be no need for huge parking lots. Twice as many cars could fit in the same lane space because stupid inattentive humans wouldn't be driving, reducing the need to build more/expand roads. The resources that go into cars the sit and do nothing for 90% of every day could be replaced with an efficient fleet of EVs running 24/7. I'm still waiting on my flying car, but I don't hate the idea. I could be talked out of my car if there was a reasonable replacement. What I do know is people that bet against Musk usually lose, any Tesla shorts around here?

The statement about lithium running out reminds me of the 70's and the oil crisis. Those that predict doom and gloom said we'd be out of oil before 1980. I remember being quite upset with my dad for buying a new truck because we wouldn't be able to buy gas for it. Lithium is completely recyclable and if the predictions are true then recycling car batteries will be a lucrative business. Also, any more I don't pay much attention to doom and gloom predictions. If there is money to be made, there will be people that figure out how to make it.

I've heard all the arguments for H2 powered cars and I still struggle to see their advantage. After reading a bunch of articles on them it seems to boil down to assumptions, speed of refilling or the imminent shortage of certain minerals. It certainly isn't based on cost or reducing green house gasses. I'm not hating on H2 it's just that I don't accept the assumptions as being correct. If I'm wrong I'll be the first to buy a H2 powered car.

 

You mean the doom and gloom predictions on CNN about Manhattan underwater in 30 years

 

Is that what they're saying? I avoid CNN, Fox, Fuckbook, et al as much as possible. Human caused global warming is pretty obvious to see, it's there just for the looking. I'm doing what I can to reduce my impact. If everyone just did what they could on any subject that interests them the world would be a better place. It seems however, many would rather complain instead of putting actions where their mouth is.

 

Funny you mention this, was thinking the same thing. If think about it our vehicles sit parked longer than being used. Future when they all go autonomous, use it as you need it. Having a vehicle subscription service rather than owning a vehicle outright would relieve a lot of the cost.

Autonomous intersection management would help tremendously with traffic control. Engineers have been working on it for quite some now, not just Musk.

There are a lot of pluses for EVs, however don’t believe they are as environmentally friendly as we are lead to believe.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7_lwq3BfkY

 

Nothing makes me more excited about the future than the prospect of hopping into a shared ride on a Monday morning with the pungent scent of vomit. Unless musk is planning on some sort of piss/shit/vomit detector.

 

Have you ever heard some one complain about sharing a work vehicle with a coworker?

In the future everyone will get to share in that pleasure.

 

^ that's a world without pedestrians, bicycles or motorcyles, I see.

 

What level playing field will there be when sale of ICE vehicles is banned? The only way we can consider it a level playing field is to allow the two forms to compete. That's not happening. Also - if we're really going to allow them to compete, let's make it a bit more fair. Where are all the restrictions on EVs? How about they must be able to produce a certain mount of KWH, or they must be able to charge in X amount of time, utilizing X amount of power? Kinda like emissions and MPG requirements that weren't asked for - they were forced. Either restrict them both, or unrestrict them both and let's see what the public really wants. That's not freedom to choose it's freedom to accept what you're allowed to have, and it's complete BS. It's sadly typical of the way things are going. One group says I don't like (____) because it's (____), but you can have it if you want, it's just not for me. The other group says no one should have (___), it should be banned, and we're passing legislation to make sure no one gets (____) because I don't like it. Oh and if you don't agree with me, you're some type of ____ist. Kinda crazy, but just look, listen, & read - it's the "way of the future".

 

Hopefully, yes. But past practice dictates otherwise (where availability of ICE vehicles is concerned). Again - for the record, I'm all for it, if it can literally replace my vehicle in every aspect, but they just can't - at least not now. HOPEFULLY in another 10-15 years they will. I'm also fairly certain that Big Oil isn't just going to go away quietly and kiss multiple billions in profits goodbye. All these free charging stations will disappear as soon as EVs make a dent in their bottom line. Exxon Oil and British Petroleum will all of a sudden be Exxon Electric and British Power (or something probably a bit more clever). What you pay for a gallon/ liter of fuel today will be offset by a per KWH rate at the electric pump. Or do people really believe that they'll just be benevolent and let us recharge for free? LMAO. Home charging stations will likely offset that a bit. High efficiency solar, or wind powered home power generation I'm sure will have a role in it too...and the electric utilities will adjust. It's a neat idea for sure, but what's in the brochure isn't what we'll get. We've all seen this movie before and know how it ends - we just have to be honest enough to admit it.

 

Lol!

it can work trust us!


Maybe we all need to go drive in India for a year.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnPiP9PkLAs

 

i’m not gonna lie those things are all basically true you can’t just fall asleep and to a certain extent you’re right you have to babysit it. All true .
However, even with all of that said I would still much rather use it 90% of the time and not have to deal with the stress and hassle of daily traffic or long road trip. If you’re paying attention and letting it do it’s thing it drives very safely. Essentially I would miss it if it wasn’t featured on a car. I also would even pay extra to have it (as I have ) . It’s much more useful than you would think , something u need to try for a bit . Also you can just simply not use it and drive the car like a normal .
For me so far I would classify it as a very useful and practical driving feature. Much like a reverse camera, blindspot indicator, or so. “ Extra “ but useful.

 

They know how to merge. I also notice no one is living in the middle of the square, no body is bathing or swimming in the fountain. I couldn't find a any graffiti on any of the buildings, or vehicles.

They probably don't have time for those things.

 

I don’t know, tell me what you think. It’s not that bad , and compared to anything else offered it’s way way ahead;

 

Have you ever seen a lithium mine? It's quite literally - raping the planet. It's not to say one is cleaner or better than the other, both suck for the environment - we've kinda proved that over the years. But renewables aren't saints. There are multiple elements in solar panels that are both highly toxic and do not decompose or cannot be recycled. Here are a few articles that have interesting info. For now at least it's like saying you quit smoking because of second hand smoke, so you'll have a drink instead of a cig...lungs never felt better, but your liver is hanging on by a thread. Makes no sense. I think renewables are making great strides, but they're just not "there" enough to force them on us with no other alternative.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/06/business/lithium-mining-race.html
https://www.wired.com/story/solar-panels-are-starting-to-die-leaving-behind-toxic-trash/

 

Yup - great point!.I mean, buses, trains, light rail, taxis - they're all clean, aren't they? And most, if not all of those have a human attendant to try to make people behave. Imagine how great they'll be when there's no one around to "keep you honest" so to speak? LMAO.

 

The science speaks for itself. The same science predicting global warming also predicts your car's motor will run when you dump gasoline in to it. Nothing political about it. Just the other end of the equation haha.

 

As for me I'll stick with the L2 ADAS in TSS 2.0, until it doesn't run me into bollards or emergency vehicles. Adaptive and lanekeep are perfectly fine with me.

YMMV.