The LED SAE J583 Fog Pod & Fog Light Review

Colton,

I think you may have sent the above response to the wrong TW member. Thanks for the information though!

Tom

 

I wasn't too worried about it when I first had the lift added, but now I'm kinda mad they removed it. Oh well, partially my fault for not pushing the dealer more.

Thanks, Colton. I was able to find a pair.

 

Back lighting and daytime running lights are not the same thing. Back lighting is like interior ambient lighting. Serves no purpose other than looking good.

 

And now we finally have the real reason that Toyota specced the half height Rigid fog lights on the TRD Pros. If they didn't need them lower my bet is that the Pros would have the standard OEM LED fog lights.

 

Good point! Wondered why they bothered putting those tiny things in.

 

I installed SSc2 aux backup lights with red backlight. Yes, they function as not much more than a marker light.

DRLs on the 2nd Gen are not much different though. Just amber markers.

I've never seen the backlights promoted as anything else.

 

Not to piss in anyones cheerios, but the backlight option hasn't exaclty been advertised as useful for auxiliary running/parking/brake lamps. DD's LED arrangement is very neat, but any sort of backlighting design has to take second fiddle to the primary LED/optics package. Unless DD was to redesign the pods with smaller (less effective/efficient) primary optics, in order to mold in some lenses for the secondaries, they're basically left with trying to come up with a layout that is visually appealing, but not necessarily as functional as a backlight. From their 2x3 arrangement, it appears they will be taking advantage of some rather oblique/side infiltration of the primary lenses, so it should be fairly even in intensity when facing the lens. But especially for the multi-color LEDs, these are very low power COB type LEDs, and even when well heatsinked, they can't take much power input if you expect them to last very long without suffering major lumen degradation. Add to that, the filtration loss is likely to be fairly heavy to get amber through a fairly dark yellow/near amber lens (this is for the MAX pods, which use osram LEDs that are not available in neutral white color temps) and you'll have a low output ambient light that may be clearly visible at night only.

Edit- forgot to say: Whag I'm most interested in, is how DD has stated they can increase the output of the Max pods w/backlight, while still being j583 legal for fogs. Perhaps backlit models have a new optic design as well, with a wider or taller beam pattern, to keep the maximum intensity in the spec, while using the increased output by increasi g the area its disteibuted over? The thermal throttling is something that the flashlight modding/hotrodding community has been using for years, as the vast manority of handheld lights out there don't have any sort of active cooling, so it comes down to limitations on what the LED can handle, maximizing the thermal pathway to the body of the lamp, maximizing thermal mass, and using either timed or driver circuits that can track temperature and use that to throttle back the power output to the LED(s) to prevent cooking them. Crash has been doing testing with the various lamps having been turned on for a period prior to testing the intensity/color temp/spectrum etc, to give a real world use case comparison, however it would be neat to see an "at start up," and "at 'x' time interval(s)" test with a known ambient temperature to be able to chart how significant the thermal throttling is. Of course that wouldn't take into account any sort of active cooling effect that moving air would provide (even in high ambient temperatures) when mounted on a vehicle, but, again, would provide a baseline of comparison.

 

I asked the same question when the original max lights came out. My understanding was that only F3 specs a maximum brightness in the main beam pattern, whereas the older F spec does not. It does have a limitation of candela near the cutoff, but I don't remember exactly how much and what the size of the region is in degrees.

 

Do you ever have anything good to say about anything?

 

Hi everyone,

The backlight feature is not, and has never been advertised as, a Daytime Running Light. These are accent lights - backlights. They produce a few lumens at most. I'm sorry for any confusion, but I don't think we've advertised them inappropriately in this sense. They also definitely cannot replace any standard vehicle lighting function. Again, these backlight LEDs are not a parking light, running light, turn signal, or brake light. These backlights have also been available for some time on our C1 and C2 products, but it seems we are just now seeing some confusion regarding the overall intention and function of what a "Backlight" is.

@Toy_Runner the backlight LEDs on the SS3 are individual single-color PLCC LEDs. You're correct on the "back seat" on the circuit - they are completely out-of-focus and not directing light in any meaningful way.
For the SS3 Max Backlight, the optic is the same, the overall power level is just a bit higher, while still meeting all test points. More information to come as we finalize the specifications with multiple series of photometric tests with production units.

Thanks,
Paul

 

I'm fairly certain of two things, were I to go comb back through this thread starting from the testing of the DD SS3 pods.

1- You stated you were using/going to use a set of spots in your fog lamp location, with your lowbeams.

2- This is not the first time you have stated you are "done here."

Just as fog lamps have a set of regulations/specifications that a lamp must meet in order to be considered a fog lamp, so too must day time running lights, parking lights, turn signals and brake lights. As I stated in my post above^^^ the backlight LEDs do not have any specific optics they are meant to project through. They are shining obliquely through the back side of the primary lens. They are going to be able to provide a visually pleasing/aesthetic illumination of the lamps lens, but it is unrealistic to expect them to function as any other type of useful lightsource, just by the nature of the design. There's marketing talk, and there's realistic limitations on what things can accomplish, so you, as a person with some seniority, should contemplate how you came to your set of expectations, given you've had extra time to learn the difference...

@Diode_Dynamics

Thanks for the update Paul.

 

I'm a little curious, though, how the backlight looks with the clear lens compared to selective yellow on the MAX.

I have max fogs w clear lens on the Odyssey and selective yellow on the Tacoma. In an ideal world I might want both options, clear for clear nights, selective yellow for poor visibility and true "fog" use. I can definitely see how a backlight option on the MAX with selective yellow optics might be unimpressive during the day.

 

The osram chips the Max uses are not available in anything resembling a neutral white color temperature, lowest color temp range on their spec sheets is ~5000k, with 5500+ more typical in whats available.

With either the Sport or Pro models, you could buy the selective yellow pods, then swap to the clear lens, then carry a set of the pop-off yellow lens covers for use in inclement weather. The max would not remotely work like this, as its selective yellow lens has to filter much more green from the emitters. Going clear lens + yellow pop-off covers would just result in a funky Greenish-yellow color, and probably some attention from police.

 

Not my circus, but I was always under the impression that the backlight feature was nothing more than aesthetics. I've never read here that they were anything but for looks.

 

Yep, fully aware of all this as I own 2 sets. I may plan for it with the bumper on the FGT and possibly try to get double fog pod spots so I can be picky choosey choosertons. More fun to overpay for double lights than to be messing around with an allen wrench in a storm

Something like this setup, though it could be tempting to go with a combo or driving optic on the clears.

 

My second set is still on the shelf, just haven't gotten the courage to cut up the bumper filler

 

I agree with your observation. It's even in the name..."Backlight", which indicates it's more of a glow. I have never thought the backlight could be bright enough to be considered anything more than a decorative feature.

Even though my curiosity runs wild thinking about the possibilities if the backlight were bright enough to be used as a signal light, brake light, running/brake or running/signal... I have to come to terms with what is and not what I want it to be. You can't always have everything and it likely wouldn't benefit Diode Dynamics to re-re-design it as only a small handful of people would actually buy it for that reason. I know it seems like it would sell like hot cakes, but you have to remember that the 20-30 or so people on this page does not represent the mass consumer base. We are but a .01% (maybe even less) of people who actually put this much thought or care into proper lighting as most just want brand recognition or bling. Hence why there are so many PNP LED a$$hats out there buying the cheapest Amazon PNP LED blinding everyone and never giving any thought as to what proper lighting is... There's a lot more of those guys than there are nerds like us. Who knows, maybe Diode Dynamics is working on something with those functions? Only they know that answer.

 

A new fog light option dropped today for those who want to keep an OEM style. Intensity is on-par with SS3 Sport, but that's still a huge upgrade from any OE-style option. F3-compliant pattern, super sharp cutoff. And it's a fantastic value at $220 for the set (unbiased, of course).

Yes, a couple sets are in transit to Mr. J583 for testing and review. If you have questions, fire away!