How can we know that 2nd gens are of lower quality

Right on brother.

Not that they understand the mechanics, Just more obvious if its working or not.

Tons of people here put carburetors on their vortec GMs.
Its also a huge bitch if you do manage to break some controller when the car is 20 years old. But, like you said, not really a problem. Got my 1977 efi bug working just fine.

 

That is probably true for the majority of this board, but definitely not me. I understand little about the mechanics, but much more about technology. Unfortunately not so much about car technology so I guess in general, I'm pretty far behind where I want to be with vehicles (mechanically and electronically). In the IT world, virtually no technology is expected to last 20 years [sans problems/failure] - seemed only logical to believe the same is true about vehicles.

 

I figure that you should take any of the negative stuff with a grain of salt as a lot of people like to bitch if there is something wrong. typically speaking your more likely to read bad reports than good because people who don't have negative reports seem to keep the good news to them selfs.
personally i hope that my truck lasts 15 years but doubt the capabilities and reliability of the electronics. Also i find the the fit and finish is better in Tacoma's than in both Ford and Chevy 1/2 ton and 1/4 ton trucks in my personal experience, Although i may be biased because i am a dye hard fan of Toyota. Plus if you beat the shit out of it, it isn't going to last, like anything.

 

I think what I meant to indicate is that the useful life of the vehicle will be long gone before the electronics systems. Yeah now and then a window motor will need replacing but junk yards everywhere are filled with 30 years worth of fully working motors . ECMS. Sensors. Radios..on and on....

I don;t think anyone has ever junked a car because of massive electronics failure lol

 

I don't know about you but around me the junk yards are a dying industry. i have seen a few go do to lack of sales. That and the "just buy new" attitude that people have now makes me question the availability of parts from a junk yard in the future. But thats the future so who the f#$k knows.

 

i prefer manual stuff not electronic. i understand it fine but in the case of manual tcase and hubs i find the electronic crap to be a pain in the ass. In other vehicles ive had failures with the systems. Like the vacuum motor that actuates the front diff. id be in 4wd but the front wheels wouldnt turn. turned out to be the electronically activated vacuum solonoid on the transfercase was stuck so it would not allow vaccum to actuate the front diff. i was stuck in the middle of nowhere. I probably should have left it in 4wd but i didnt and it failed. I have never had a warn hub fail. although if they did it is servicable on the trail and easier to diagnose.

as for the t case, i find it nice to be able to go into 4wd/4lo whenever without having to have a computer tell me its ok. its so annoying to switch and not have it go into gear especially if you cant continue through or up. gotta stop, back up or move forward if you can, try again and hope it goes in... then you gotta do it all over in 4lo...

every vehicle that has been a lever has gone in noooo problem for the life of the vehicle...

either way, i can fix either just prefer mechanical due to ease of diagnosis and in my experiences manual has been more reliable...

 

I have junked 2 cars due to failed electrical system, one diagnosed and not worth it, the other, I never figured out and wasn't worth trying further (subaru was just dumping fuel into the cylinders in gallons then a friend cross threaded a spark plug)


I hear they still have junk yards in some rural corners of the world, but more and more they're crushing as fast as they can, only stripping off good quality high dollar/desire parts. Recycling i a big business, and seeping fluids onto the ground is big fines, junk yards are disappearing fast.

doesn't really matter, sooner or later they'll stop allowing us to register old POS junkers making all those parts obsolete.

 

My 2006 has 223k on it, much of it hard off-road miles. Many thousands of miles in 4WD on snow covered roads as well. It runs like new. It has not broken down on me. Only a few minor-ish repairs. No rattles either.

In my book this indicates reliability and quality.

 

Thanks for the anecdotal story. You certainly drive a lot - very cool!

 

yea, anecdotes don't count for much. I saw a first gen (america) escort on the road a couple weeks ago. That guy might say the same, we know different. Taurus was another one, they seemed to last forever or about 35000 miles. SO everyone has an extreme opinion.

 

Without anecdotes however, we'd be left with nothing to analyze. The aggregate of our anecdotes is what makes up statistics. The vast majority of threads on here are based completely on anecdotes and while they do not provide a perfect picture, they at least show us potential scenarios.

 

YEa, thats why 87% of all vbulletin forums is BS or much worse... (see octane thread or favorite brand threads)

Anecdotes are not proper data. THat's why they're anecdotes, not statistics. There are people that collect statistical data on vehicle faults, and I'm sure they accommodate lying and misunderstanding.
The only place anecdotes have in science is for posing theories.
Its hard not to believe what you see though, and there is great value in prejudice, but one should be mindful of it.

and when it comes to internet. Everyone says they paid half as much and got twice as much as they really did. Its hard for the younglings and the ignorant to pick out the facts and they get all stirred up... all of a sudden, people are reciting things glen beck told them.

 

Toyota got complacent and their quality suffered becasue of it. Heck their CEO admitted to it last year and was fired. I guess the good thing is most car companies have cut corners to keep costs down, so across the board the complaints are fairly equal. My boss owns two fairly new Hyundai's and he's had to take both of them to the shop for numerous electrical issues. If my biggest issue is a noisy blower motor in 4 years of ownership, than I think I'm doing fairly well.

 

Mercedes has done much much MUCH worse. From million mile machines to throw away 2 year junk... again, designing for the shallow american market did them in. Americans may be an, no THE, ignorant auto consumer, but we can complain quickly too. Ya can't win, never listen to the consumer auto industry, They're stupid.

 

Look the truck overall may be lacking but the 1GR is by far the most reliable 6 banger on the planet! Prove me wrong!

 

Love my truck-no complaints at all. If you want to appreciate your truck spend some time in a ford ranger.

 

i think.. just in toyota the jz and 1g are a bit more noteworthy and proven. gm vortec is good too... the mustang v6... hell ya just don't hear about engines being bad anymore...

at least the 1gr doesn't share heritage with the other toyota v6s... they never got those right.

 

Yeah, this thread stayed way far away from idiocy. Nice work.

 

simple..earlier models were built in Japan and the newer ones are built here

 

who are you to judge anyone?