BUYER BEWARE: Explore Overland

This is almost starting to sound like that documentary on Netflix, Fyre. If you haven't seen it, it's worth the time to watch...and cringe.

 

And I thought 1800 for a high clearance rear bumper with a tire swing out and a 8-10 week lead time was a hell of a deal too

they got us all man

 

It never makes sense to me how a 3rd party can somehow offer a better deal than buying it directly from the fab shop. I always get it right from the source when possible

 

Yeah Ive been noticing that with this thread

 

Same.

Not just for the sketch factor either, though admittedly sketch factor plays large in my mind. (Drop-shippers creep me out.)

But more importantly its so much easier to troubleshoot and warranty when you buy direct. Those guys have an active interest in seeing you happy with the stuff they made. Resellers just want easy money.

 

It's got to be guys that worked there now here.

 

Exactly. Why not give the money/profit to the place actually doing the work, and have the added bonus of not going through more administrative layers in the case something goes sideways

 

Kinda doubt it. Most of the New Members in this thread are saying they ordered XYZ and have yet to receive it.

 

I just got notice from TD Canada Trust (my bank) that my dispute was declined because it was submitted too late. On the Bank's page about disputes, they RECOMMEND the dispute be filed no later than 30 days from the issuance of the statement on which the disputed charged appear. Because I ordered the EO sliders on November 30th, the charge would have appeared on my December 22nd statement, meaning I had until January 20th to start a claim. While these are TD policies, there is a "Visa Dispute Network" upon which all Banks base their Visa dispute processes around. This is clearly insufficient for resolving cases where the lead times were (at the time) 8-10 weeks, where the earliest my sliders would have been shipped was January 26th. I plan to press my bank on the issue a bit but I'm not terribly hopeful that'll go in my favor.

Now I'm waiting to hear back from the NYS consumer protection folks.

It seems like PayPal offers a lot more room for disputing charges. I'll certainly keep that in mind next I decide to buy anything with Visa.

 

Their last one seems to have turned out pretty well. In fact EO people seem to be pretty decent at putting on events. As previously mentioned Derrick Snell, one of EO's co-founders has another group called NorthEast Toyota Overlanders that does organized rides. Andrew Warnock, the other co-founder of EO, is married to the founder of Wander Offroad which also does organized rides (in fact I'm 99.9999% sure his 3rd gen Tacoma build actually belongs to his wife while he drives a beater 1st gen OR). All their positive facebook and google reviews are mostly people who attended their events. Speaking of which, if you've been ripped off by EO and haven't left them a google and/or facebook review, what are you waiting for? EO is still actively taking orders and they're online reputation is still pretty much perfect.

All that said, I contacted the venue as well as the co-organizer of their upcoming event(s) to let them know who they're getting involved with.

 

Its being shared on IG too. A couple people that I follow with GX's have posted.

They do some events with Koch 33 Toyota dealership in PA. I tagged them in my story, and they supposedly had no idea..

 

We have recently received correspondence from members of the off-road community regarding their negative experiences as customers of Explore Overland Fabrication. Customer service and support are vital to our business at Koch 33 Toyota.

The Northeast Overland Festival is scheduled for May 19th- May 22nd. In light of recent information surrounding Explore Overland Fabrication, we have decided to officially remove our support and sponsorship from the Northeast Overland Festival, as well as Explore Overland Fabrication.

We have been involved in many large scale events for the last 4-5 years and have worked closely with the Northeast Overland group and Explore Overland as well as many other groups. As a dealership, we provide sponsorships to invest back into our community and support the amazing off-road and overland enthusiasts. Our customers and this community are the most important aspects of our business.

 

I wonder if I can get my money back for this...and the Ouray Overland Festival.

 

I hope for your sake you can. Shits expensive.

 

@koch33toyota

This is the probably best thing you can do for your company right now. Thanks for signing up in TW to communicate directly with us.

 

Just adding another story to this EO nightmare: I ordered my stuff December 1, Radflo lift kit, front bumper and sliders for my Lexus GX470. I last heard from Derrick 6 weeks ago with the "two more weeks and your lift kit will be sent out". 4 weeks ago I started asking regularly, like every day or every other day, for updates via email, phone, text, FB messenger and got a single response from Amanda saying Derrick would update me.

It's too bad. Derrick seems like a nice guy, the front bumper is only one of two like it and has plenty of demand for it. It's also too bad my almost 6 month wait now starts over for the Radflo kit (currently 16 week lead time), which is a critical step for getting my tires I've had for 5 months on. I called Radflo and they said they've been shipping stuff to EO so not sure why EO can't at least forward my lift to me.

I do have to say, it's a bit of a relief to finally see that this really was a train wreck instead of wondering for weeks if they were just behind and I was all of a sudden going to get my order.

I submitted the request to PayPal and will update here when I find anything out.

 

Look on the reading outdoors site.

The venue says it's cancelled. So you're entitled to a refund. Whether you get it is another matter.

Considering how much you're into this company for, I'd start legal proceedings and get a lien on them before they have a chance to declare bankruptcy.

Just saying, it might be time for you to get your free consult with Saul Goodman.

 

Alright, I was pretty much content at reading all of these posts throughout the last week but seeing Heather comment here I have to jump up and say, Heather, your husband is one of the nicest, coolest, most helpful people I have met up here (I am in Syracuse) after moving from NJ. When I was having a rough time rebuilding my engine in my GX, Dusty quickly tore off the head and checked the shims on his own spare engine to help me with some measurement issues. THAT is going above and beyond.

I started writing this "script" and was going to address some of the other comments that people have made on this thread up until now, writing some notes and remembering items that I experienced but figured let me get my story out there first and foremost, and then we can address the similarities..

Because of Dusty's sincere ability to show exceptional customer service to someone, who at the time was not a customer, and seeing Derrick's involvement in the community in the area, I figured man, I would love to support these guys and buy some of their products... oh boy... and here is where it begins. Now granted this starts with a long back story about the truck which I will shorten up with a few bullets as opposed to dragging this out.

• December 25th 2020 - Start the truck to take to the inlaws for Christmas, The dashboard decided to celebrate the holiday as well... yay...
• December 28th 2020 - Towed to shop #1
• January - February 2021 - Leak down test confirms Blown head gasket, shout out to Lexus of Lansing, MI for not installing a Water Pump Gasket less than 12k miles ago... (a whole different "buyer beware" story)
• March-August Pull engine, rebuild the entire top end with all new gaskets and parts, move it to shop 2 because shop 1 was not performing their end of the deal, and drive it for a weekend to get all codes and issues to sort out.
• August - December, Shop 2 dillydally's, the truck has a bad (brand new just defective) starter, bad valve tick, and a few other odds and ends that need to get addressed, they pretty much sit on it stressing me out, however, it is still running, just with a tick.
• December - January 2021 Move it to shop #3 who sorts out the remaining issues other than valve tick, figured I would address it the next time I need to do a Timing belt or until it gets much worse.

Here's the "meat'n'potataahhs"

August 2021 - Combo order for GX470 Sliders and Hybrid Front Bumper is placed on 8/2/2022, I priced it out and sent it to Derrick on FB, said this is what I am going to go with just trying to wait on some funds to finalize and we will be good to go (it was my Daughter's first birthday that week and didn't want to stress about the credit card too hard) but Derrick said look I will send you an invoice right now and I will take an extra $100 off, bringing the total to a flat $2,000. I was going to order the week after regardless so in my mind I am like, "say less, I'm in." A few weeks go by, someone posts their picture in GXOR of their new GX bumper from EO and I comment "Can't wait to get mine!" To which Derrick replied "Install on the house! I need some install videos to send to those who I ship out to" PERFECT, THAT'S AWESOME I screenshotted this and sent it to some of the homies, super excited about it to share it. At the time I was in NO rush for the bumper, take your time, make your money, my truck isnt running 100% proper so I just want to reserve my place and I will get there when I get there.

I'm at work daydreaming and realize I am doing a steel bumper, a winch (bought separately), A larger Odyssey battery, and anticipate going with dual battery too... I am going to need some constant load springs on the front! Not knowing where the timeline is on my bumper I just shot a post out on GXOR basically said where can I get the best deal on some Dobinsons springs, I already had some red 200-400lb load springs on the rear and red standard load on the front, so I wanted red constant load springs for the front for when the bumper and sliders go on. Derrick quickly shot me a message and said "Hey I saw you need some springs, I know a guy" Told him what I needed and he called me, we spoke on the phone, and I said I don't know the specific part number, i believe its the C59-354, but I want the higher constant load springs anticipating for what would ultimately about 300-400 lbs over stock on the nose of my truck and that they have to be in RED, Andrew Warnock was in the background typing away seeing what he could find. he said he found them

October - I reach out to Derrick again and said "Yooooo figured I bring up this spring situation now before we run into a road block when you have bumpers and sliders ready for me" to which he said "I think your a week or 2 away from final production." They then sent me a Paypal invoice and I noticed it was a little high, about $40 more than what some of the competitors or even Dobinson's had on their own website, but I figured, oh support the small business, Derrick will make it right for you, plus he is covering the install of the bumpers and sliders so no biggie. However, there is absolutely no detail as to which springs I am buying, just "Dobinsons Springs" I shot him a message and said, along the lines of, I'm cool with paying the invoice but are we for sure getting the ones I want, to which I got the short response "Its the correct coil rate for you" to which I said "alright sounds good"

2 weeks pass, no bumper, again I am in no rush, I am still battling the shop that has my truck to get the shit done they told me they would.

December 2021 - Go to the Toy Drive event at Koch 33. See Derrick, he kinda avoids me but says hello, I don't call him out, not the time or place, I met Andrew in person for the first time, was saying how my order has been in since August but I have been pretty hands-off about it, I know they have been busy as they have ballooned into this much larger nationally known company. He was like Yeah it's been insane. On 12/28/2022 I reach out to Derrick and said the following:

I have been swamped but meaning to reach out to you but have been completely swamped.

1. Yes I do want those hoops you added on the GX bumper, they look very very clean. Let me know what I would owe you to add that for that.
2. What is the timeline on the bumper and sliders? I had someone shoot me a PM asking if I received mine yet, I explained to him that you guys have moved shops twice in the last 6 months, that materials have been slow to arrive, and that some of the guys have had some life events come up here and there (congrats to Dustin on the kid) He didnt really like the answer I had but I basically said hang in there Eo Is working their ass off to get their stuff done. Just want to rep your shit man, love what your doing, and cant wait to see what you do with the new-to-you-GX
​

To which he said "I have yours finishing up next week" but was more focused on who was asking about EO being slow... Called me to talk about it and wanted details.

February 2022

• 2/3/2022 - Shoot Derrick this message, "Hey man I'm checking in to see where we're at with this bumper... The order was in on Aug 2nd, back in October you told me I was 2 weeks out from production, 3 weeks ago you said I would be done by the end of the month... I've had nothing but patience here but I'm starting to hit that point where I begin to question things"
  • This got no response, I work in construction and have to chase down subcontractors for a living... If you want to play hardball we can play hardball...
• 2/7/2022 - I call, text, message on Facebook, and email the EO email saying I want an update. Travis and Derrick get back to me to set an installation date of 2/16/2022
• 2/14/2022 - Travis and I have a call to review some of the things being installed, everything seems like its going fine.
• 2/16/2022 - Dropped off for installation of the bumper, sliders, springs, and extras
  • HF Special Badlands Synthetic Winch
  • BD SAE fogs
    
  • BD Rock Lights to replace the wiring/puddle lights on the OE side steps
• 2/22/2022 - We drive out to pick the GX up from EO. On the way out I see I have an invoice for $1,740....
  • Now I anticipated to pay for SOME since the winch, lights, and springs were not in that initial "install is on the house" comment but $1,740 ain't it chief, Derrick is offended, says that the install was on the house! that the 16 hours of labor was strictly for the springs, winch, and light install... I call bull shit. tell him "look, I am not paying you a penny more than $800, 8 hours @ $100 an hour, for this, and that is being OVERLY generous for the tasks asked of your staff." to which he said "Fine but give me a good review" oh man did this rub me the wrong way, NO absolutely not, I will give you an honest review, and that review is NOT going to look good right now... and then we go to the office, he modifies the invoice to $800+tax, and then proceeds to nickel and dime me, "Well I had the guys have to get ABC and XYZ from advance and NAPA and so I need to bill you for those parts now..." The total of what was paid to get out of their lot was $1,043.42
  • It is POURING rain, black as my ex-girlfriend's soul outside, I am just trying to get my wife, daughter, and I some food and then go home, I don't have much time to look at it while there in their lot
• 2/23/2022 - I wake up and finally have a chance to see the bumper and sliders on the GX and I will say the quality is nice... but then I see teal coil springs on the front... I was livid. I had to take the whole day to calm myself down and didn't want to jump on a phone call with Derrick and start cursing him out... so I took the day, 12 hours, and finally got around to sending Derrick this message on Facebook and turn my phone off for the night, I am exhausted and anxious about it and just needed to walk away for a minute and address it in the morning

Hey man, I wanted to get around to reaching out to you earlier today but I figured it might be best to shoot you this via text. Your busy, I'm busy, and just wanted to get some insight as to what's going on because I really feel like things should not have gone down this way and I feel like I need to get all of this out there because after waking up this morning and seeing that there are teal springs on the front when I repeatedly and specifically said "red" multiple times on the phone with you back in October. You charged me more for the springs than what your competitor was charging to which I bit my tongue, said to myself "It's okay to support a local small business and Derrick will take care of me later." Now it may seem so trivial to be upset about spring color but this was the cherry on top of this whole experience.

I didn't say 'boo' about anything until we hit the 6-month mark and missed two anticipated finish deadlines. I continued to defend your business when people asked me how long I have been waiting for my bumper, while not disclosing that you failed to meet two anticipated finish windows as told to me. There was no communication as to the bracket situation for the winch, which was placed in essentially the only place available in the engine bay for a dual battery setup and will have to be relocated regardless. The majority of your turnaround within the GX community has been 3-4 months yet mine pushed just a week shy of 7 months, the only explanation of this could be exactly what Travis told me, my order did not exist in your system, and no matter how many ways you want to sugar coat it, I would have appreciated the transparency of "Hey man, I fucked up, The way I processed your order with a direct to invoice to you did not have the order fall into our system, and for that I am sorry." But the cherry on top, and really the straw that broke the camel's back, are these springs, of which I never received a model number for, invoice, I have no way of knowing the spring rate or load rating for, but none of that matters because they are the wrong color and after 4 months to the date of the order you never took the time to confirm with me after I had to call you and Travis and email about it multiple times to make sure that the springs are getting installed, that they were the right part number and color.

This has been an incredibly frustrating experience. I want to support you, I have supported you, I want you to be successful, and you are doing just that, but it's incredibly difficult to defend you as I have in the past when both my buying and install experience has been suboptimal. And I want you to know that this has nothing to do with the quality of the work itself by the team, the bumper, sliders, everything installed is pristine and mint, weird wiring/power issue with my rock lights is nothing of your fault and that will just have to be addressed as time goes on.
​

• 2/24/2022 - I woke up to Derrick refunding me $265.xx for the coil springs, and messages in his best effort to make it right. I called him, we scheduled a date on the second week of March to have the correct coils installed, Derrick says he thought my truck was broken the whole time so thats why he never committed to the date on the bumpers or sliders... (insert OhYeahSureJenniferLawrance.GIF)

March 2022

I texted him the morning of my appointment and told him that we had someone drive into one of the buildings my company owns and operates and I had to address that and won't be able to make it out to him. Derrick never responded to this, even to this date, granted I myself have not followed up with him, but at this point, I don't know why I would want to and continue worrying about it...

Explore Overland has had so much potential to be the North East's response to the lack of honest, great, and fair-priced shops, but the unfortunate reality is they are smoke and mirrors when it comes to communication, execution is sub-optimal, and overall experience is heinous at best.

TL;DR: "Oh dude you got fucked over by Explore Overland? Lol me too bro bro, me too"

 

They actually both own 3rd Gen Tacos, and Taylor's Blue 3rd Gen Limited has been shodily pieced together for a year or more. They constantly post pics of them working on their personal trucks. It's funny to see them get parts in stock for their rigs and their trips when they can't bother to order parts for paying customers.

 

I kinda make it a point to use my name lol, I have nothing to hide, I own my flaws even if it does involve adding more shit to a shit storm