Ontario BS Thread

That is completely correct. And to also add, ammunition must be in a separate locked container.

You can use a firearm in self defence.

BUT

After opening your safe, getting your tiny trigger lock key organized, then using another key to open your separate secure ammunition container.

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The determining if they pose a greater immediate danger of death to you or an immediate person around you

i.e. could you possibly flee in any way, defend yourself in any other way, and call the police first, then no you can't use a firearm.

But if all other options to flee are gone , and your life is in immediate threat, and there is no other way to defend your life in time.

Then yes you can use a firearm.

Scenario #1,
Burglar breaks in, shoots your dog, starts shooting holes in you bedroom walls and screams that they are coming for you next.
IF you don't have other people in the house,
no place to hide,
and you could not get out the window before they have kicked down the door to your room.
Then Boom once they come in the room. (If you "Hunt" them down in the house, and shoot first, charges laid)
Pay for lawyer during the investigation and preliminary charges.
Year or two later, you are off scott free.
Maybe a few days in jail before the bail hearing.
Definitely a long time in an interview room.
Years if ever you get your other firearms back.

Maybe 10-$50,000 in legal costs.

Scenario #2
You come home and when you walk into the bedroom and some person 3 times your size is raping your spouse with a knife to their throat and tells you to f-off and he will leave when he is done.

If you are not in a remote area, with little chance of police coming in a reasonable time,

The legal answer is; to go to a place of safety and call the police.

You will be charged and go to trial if you use a firearm in scenario #2.
With a high probability of conviction by a Judge.
Same of you used a baseball bat and they were permanently injured or killed.

You could place them under citizen arrest and try and detain them without killing them or permanently harming them. But may also face civil suit.

If you do go to trial, demand a Jury trial in Scenario #2.

$50,000-$250,000+ in legal costs and still a very high probability of jail time beyond initial bail.
Extremely high change of never being able to own a firearm again.

"Reasonable" force to protect your persons,
Is an escalating scale.
Same with the amount of force to defend yourself.

If there is ANY doubt, Police charge first and let the courts decide.

You can't defend property by force unless it will cause harm to another person.

Canadian firearms owners have the 12/6 rule.

"It's better to be tried by 12,
Than carried by 6"

Virtually all concealed carry permits are now revoked.

Restricted and Prohibited firearms need a transport permit if taking them outside your home.
(Even gunshop/gunsmith).
Unless it is an approved gun range.
Restricted weapons (i,e handguns) can only be discharged in a range or on your property.
(provided local bylaws allow firearms discharge in your area and no-one complains)
(take them to you friends farm, you will be charged for the transport and the discharge of restricted firearms)

Unless police or military have the appropriate restricted or prohibited licence then they can't take their sidearms home.

Lol if you yell the wrong things at anybody,
or piss off you spouse.
Ever face any kind of assault,
violence,
mental diagnosis
criminal
or domestic conviction,
your firearms are gone as you license is revoked automatically.
No trial about it.
You have to have a trial if you want to get them back.

Guilt before innocence.

Scenario #3,

If a 3' tall little person broke into your house and threatened you with a very pointy pen knife.

You picked up a hockey stick and laughed then slap shot him out the front window like a hockey puck.

And he chipped a tooth....

Not only will you be charged for aggravated assault with a weapon, (and most likely convicted)
He can sue you for his therapy and dental bills. Maybe lost work time too.

In Canada you have more chance of being struck by lightening, while holding a winning lottery ticket
Than you are of being shot by any legally owned firearm, that is not in police hands.

BUT our Liberal Government is working hard to reduce/remove legally owned firearms in Canada, now banning firearms by looks,
(ignoring the studies they commissioned by experts, and their police chiefs)
(assault weapons became Prohibited and grandfatherd out, before 1970)
AND
has just removed the minimum sentences,
AND
reduced the sentencing guidelines for minorities involved in firearms offences with illegal firearms.
And spending more $$ on the search and buyback/disable program, than they have on illegal gun smuggling task forces.

While the USA has gotten out of control.
Other Countries (Czech) have firearms in their constitution
Philippines and Switzerland also have similarly high gun ownership rates as the US.
But they all have lower gun crime rates than countries that keep tightening their gun laws
i.e. (Canada, England, Australia, NZ) that ALL have increasing gun crimes in the past years.


I believe ALL stable, responsible, trained people. Should have the right to own firearms.
Background checks, proper storage and handling mandatory training courses all part of the system.

An interesting statistic that I rarely hear mentioned.

Countries with conscripted service, or higher requirements for training before ownership or training is schools.
All had less firearms problems.

Lol people in Canada forget about firearm safety being taught in schools.

https://thegunblog.ca/2019/11/15/high-school-gun-range-trained-students-for-ww2-abbotsford-news/

Hmmm more firearms training and a lot higher % of gun owners in the population ...
(full auto firearms were legal for civilians then too, you know REAL assault weapons)
and yet less gun problems in Canada than today...

 

Assault tRain

 

You've done this before, I can tell

 

Answer my subie question dammit

 

If your popping cows... Cadillac is the car to be in.

Hell a Seagull would do more damage to a Taco than a full tom turkey,
correction,
small building
would do to an old Cadillac .

 

Our government solved hunger, inflation, housing market, healthcare, mental care, fuel prices and many other problems, so it seems logical to move onto banning hand guns, increasing censorship, and having awesome Financial minister who has Masters in Slavonic Studies

 

Parents had a gun range in the basement.
Pellet handguns at 4,
Rimfire rifle, handguns and archery by about 6.
Reloading at 10.
1Km outside range centre fire rifle by 12.

About 60-70% of my friends in high school all had firearms.
Lol we'd all have pellet guns and goggles in our lockers and during free periods we'd all run down to the wooded ravine in behind the school...
And play "Mamboo wars" and shoot the shit out of each other, being like Rambo.
All the pellet welts just blended in with the pimples, so the teachers were never the wiser.
But then again, it was not against school rules to have a pellet gun in your locker, just not in the class room or shooting it in the hallways.
If the teacher saw you with a pellet gun in the hallway you got the stink eye or a knowing smile, not a Tactical team.

Back in the 80's and 90's people were not stupid and full of propaganda hype about firearms.

Teenager could walk down the street with a pellet rifle, without fear of being killed.
If some Karen did call the Police, one maybe two cops would come.
No drawn pistols,
Cop would stick his head out of the car,
call you over.
If they didn't already know you would ask you your name and address.
Tell you if they hear of any pets, birds or windows being shot with pellets in the area, they will be knocking on your door first.
Then drive away.
No danger, No stress, No problems.

Hell in the 70's you could still walk into a lot of rural hardware stores and buy a case of TNT with blasting caps.
(had to buy a case, as they did not sell individual sticks)

When my youngest son (18), asked about taking just his pellet rifle to his Mom's place in Scarborough, to show some of his old friends recently.

I had to explain to him the real risks now a days.

i,e, if anyone see's it, even though it is just a pellet gun.
Like through your balcony window from another balcony.

There is an extremely high probability that he will end up sucking carpet, after a tactical team has real rifles and poor training pointing at him.
And a good chance he will end up shot because of above mentioned poor training.

The over-hype and propaganda about firearms has made them more desirable to criminals,
and more misunderstood and dangerous to law abiding people.

Did we not learn from trying to demonize, misinform, spout propaganda about drugs...
that what the Liberals and anti-everything people are spouting...
Is only going to have the opposite effect. (and already is)

Truthful information and training, with studied and fair responses, reduces the fear and the problems for almost anything in life.

Fun fact,
Going after a hand gun ban.

If I had a choice of confronting a punk with;

an illegal hand gun
or
a Rifle or Shotgun.

Handgun would be my choice of their weapon in 95% of scenarios.
Close Quarters (hallways, tunnels, houses etc) it would be rifle.

Smaller rounds, allot less energy from less muzzle velocity (less powder shorter barrel) that means the wound cavity is exponentially smaller.
(the hole is not the major damage from a bullet, cavitation from the shock wave is)
PLUS the major point...
It is a shit ton harder to hit anything with a handgun especially in a stressful situation.

Lol have seen people in a stressfire course unload a DA revolver from 3m and not hit the human shaped target once.
And they were very competent shooters. As well as police officers.

TV and movies (and the news) has screwed up the perception of firearms so bad,
people do not realize how stupid they sound when they regurgitate it back.

Back when I was active in the civilian gun ranges,

I took a few real anti-gun nuts out to prove they were wrong, on challenges.

Every one was shaking like a leaf, holding a hand gun.

But were amazed at how strict the rules were at the range. (USA ranges are unsafe as hell in most cases)
AND
Holy Shit how much fun it was,
Then ask,
If you can bring the target closer because it's really hard to hit it.

Lol I used to love that laughter, big adrenaline and wide eyes grin of the newly converted.

Then they give you that look, you know, like the first time you give a baby chocolate.

They ain't leaving that stall until you are out of bullets.

Then the whining when they realize how much of a pain in the ass it is to go through the steps to get the licences,
the expenses of the safes and carry equipment.
Potential of it all being taken away if you fart in the wrong direction or make the most innocent mistake.
And the risk of when the police pull your name and it shows firearms.

Generally takes about 1-2 hours to explain all the steps, and all the risks of being a licensed firearms owner in Canada.

And now legal firearms people have to hide their hobbies because of illegal idiots, propaganda and ignorance.

Us legal 4x4 lovers sharing a similar experience...

Your viewed as a poorly educated red-neck because you have big tires,
you are now looked down upon by the tea swillers as being in a less civilized class.
Idiots throwing garbage all over, trespassing and causing damage.
Causes areas where you can enjoy something that is really really fun, all being closed.
People can't understand why what your doing would be considered fun.

Dirtbikes, Motorcycles, Off-roaders, lifted trucks and Fun modified cars....

Are all on the Tea Swiller's hit lists.

 

Don't forget all the funding for feelings. Rather spend $$ renaming things for the new woke crowds and committees to study hurt feeling reports
vs putting it to actually physically helping something.

You know, I used to think these doomsday preppers were all a little, zzzt zttt out there.
Packing, long term food. Gold and bullets.
Place to go outside of town that can be defended.
Rotating fuel storage and generators....

Well I still think they are nuts.... but maybe... not as nuts as I thought before.

Disarming citizens and putting so much funding into propaganda,
has never been done by a government/leadership that ended up being judged well by the history books.

Ha, if you think things are bad now... buckle up.
Fuel, Water, Fertilizer and Finances are going to make things real interesting especially after people are all mental from Covid.

This is what happens when you remove all the dangerous toys and things kids play with, and do growing up.
Let alone that there are consequences for doing something wrong.

Back in my day;
We had chemistry sets that taught you how to make gunpowder, napalm chlorine gas, all with this alcohol burning Bunsen burner.
Electronics trainers that worked with 120V and you could make a 10,000 V Jacobs ladder.
Lawn Darts and climbing 100 foot trees.

And when you did something wrong, your ass was wrapped around your ears,
none of this running around acting like a scitzoid monkey with no consequences.

Do you know how many kids got wiped out by those toys?
A lot, but only the stupid ones.

If little Johny thought throwing a Lawn Dart straight up in the air,
or licking a high voltage transformer,
jumping from the top of that tree,
was a good idea...
The world benefited from natural selection.

Thought mouthing off was a good idea and got a fat lip, no sympathy or outrage there, generally just laughter.

Got a bully,
learn to beat their ass, if you could not beat their ass,
learn to make friends that can beat their ass.

Now these idiots bypassed the natural gene protections,
stupid is everywhere breeding like rabbits and figure they can do whatever they want with no consequences.

You want to fix things...

Forget the fines, give the cops a good switchin sticks, made from the finest willow branches,
give out lawn darts, chemistry sets, Dead-eye BB guns.
Remove all the warning labels all over everything....
And let nature take it's course.

 

Lol time to put my soap box away.

 

I cant tell if this is a rant, or if i should be impressed...

 

LMAO everyone is always so extreme.

As someone who doesn’t give a single shit about firearms, but has his PAL/RPAL - I sold ALL my firearms & ammo - for much more then I paid for them - to fund cooler projects and things that put a bigger smile on my face - most being of the two wheel variety.
I will NOT be renewing my PAL/RPAL next time around. Firearms aren’t THAT cool.

Oddly enough, I still feel like I have a lot of freedom.
And that some people have too much freedom.

 

That’s probably the most terrifying thing I could imagine. It’s so normal here especially in the south. It’s a huge crime deterrent here knowing that damn near everyone is armed and especially in their homes. We are allowed to use deadly force to defend ourselves and our property and if you can prove your life was in danger that’s all you need. It seems like a basic human right in my mind. You’d be hard pressed to find someone open carrying and it would be insane to see someone with an AR strolling around town. We don’t do that down here unless we are at the range. Anyone I’ve seen with a rifle over their shoulder was in camo or at the range. That being said, there are bunches that conceal carry and it’s probably a bigger deterrent for criminals since they can’t quickly identify who is armed. I guess that would be an easier thing to do in Canada.

I didn’t grow up hunting or shooting every weekend like some of the kids around here. I was not a country boy. We grew up around guns that were loaded and sitting out in a closet etc. We were taught the dangers of firearms and never bothered them even with all the rampant childhood curiosity. We target practiced with pellet guns and .22’s probably around kindergarten and were taught gun safety while we did.

I don’t even consider myself a gun hobbyist, but there are guns in each nightstand (two by mine), one for each car, and a hidden room in our country home full of all the rifles and semi auto variants. Maybe some others too. They’re tools to me. Each one serves a different purpose. Each one can be easily and quickly used for that purpose, too. I shoot just enough to keep a decent shot. I don’t crave going to the range or salivate over guns all day.

 

Perhaps this info might be helpful.
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/gun-deaths-by-country
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41488081

IMO, I see from these statistics that we have 1/3 the amount of guns and 1/2 of the gun related deaths compared to the US. Perhaps this is the reason why in general Canadians don't feel we need to carry for self defense.

 

…. Proceeds to write things that are even more terrifying.

I’mma bow out of this convo. Ya’ll and your guns enjoy yourselves.

 

Where did you get it from? I actually like those lights

 

It could very well be and those are hard numbers to dismiss. Most will agree that we have a major problem, but we cannot agree on the best way to solve it. I’m not sure how I feel about it so I like to see how others feel and maybe what’s working for them. I think the attitude about guns is a little different here in the south than other areas of the country. We have a much more normal approach to seeing and being around guns and I think that influences peoples actions in a positive way. I like that we as citizens have a way out so to speak in case of a tyrannical government. It’s a bit of checks and balances. Could you imagine freezing the bank accounts of citizens who are armed to the teeth? We prefer a government that fears the people, not the other way around. So it’s self defense, sport, hunting and anything else that ensures freedom from where I’m sitting I suppose.

 

I suppose everyone has their own ideas of what’s terrifying or not. I’m curious how such different reactions develop. It just seems so commonplace to most of us in the south.

 

Don't know much about them. Subaru's dead to me ever since they introduced CVTs.

Meanwhile our previous mayor closed all the shooting ranges in the city, so even Olympic athletes have to go elsewhere to train...

 

I am quiet the opposite, from the time I landed over decade ago to present Canada feels more and more of a dictatorship state like home. Urban areas gets this feel more, but country starts catching up as well. Personal expression is censored, unless it is in line with government propaganda. Can't talk to people around you about anything but weather. Increased social segregation, past two years is a perfect example. Hiring people to match the "social quotas" vs real qualifications, again look at the government and what background they have. Politicians that keep lying on top of a lie. Plus increased amount of

General public is so beaten up that they don't care who is in power, last Ontario election where less than 50% voted is a great example of how demoralized society is, it's a herd now. Fish always rots from the head.

The good news is, you are still free to choose Coke or Pepsi!

It's coming up, with electric vehicle propaganda of "clean energy", petroleum users are going to be seen as outcasts and shamed.
Corporations force us in sustainability shaming while hitting record high profits and polluting more than ever, but let's blame global warming on consumers.

 

It seems to me(IMO from this side of the 49th) that your country almost became an autocracy with only 1 gun shot to prevent it. I thought the point of the 2nd amendment was to prevent this from happening.