The LED SAE J583 Fog Pod & Fog Light Review

I like Candepower Forums, but boy do they get into the weeds sometimes with what is "proper vs usable". I fully support proper lighting, but some of the members take things way to literal and by the book. Either way, it's a fantastic resource for information. Especially for odd ball vehicles and bulbs. I haven't dove into the flashlight portion on CPF because I don't need another hobby...lol

 

Does anyone have any suggestions on how I can mount ss3's right under my crash bar without drilling any holes? Looking to install another set of ss3's for extra light during extreme weather

 

Perhaps make a bracket that clamps around the bar and bolts together? Not sure what clearance there would be behind the bumper cover.

 

Morimoto 4banger NCS



The lower power sibling to Morimoto's HXB fogs, the NCS units claim an SAE J583 F compliant fog pattern like the HXB's F pattern. Despite being advertised in advance as a compliant fog product, the lamps are missing the needed SAE compliance markings found on other products. The product is also mis-advertised as "SAE Wide" which is not an SAE pattern. Unlike the HXB units where both the white and selective yellow lamps use the same Osram HX Boost emitters, the NCS units use different emitters for white vs selective yellow output, similar to Diode Dynamics SS3s.

Like the HXB units, the NCS units have good cut offs and use graduated intensity in the pattern, with higher intensity in the upper portion of the pattern, similar to OEM Toyota.




Evaluating the width, like the HXB units the NCS prioritizes the pattern to be more forward facing and less output intensity to the side. This makes for a less ideal fog, as light to the shoulder is the purpose of a fog to find the edges of the roadway in poor weather conditions.

Diode Dynamics SS3 Sport 4000k top vs 4banger NCS 5700k bottom. It is worth noting that the white NCS units use Nichia NCSY131F 5700k emitters, vs the 6000k HXBs. (I don't have DD 6000k SS3 Sports on hand, 4000k output is tested to be identical to 6000k Sports)




Tape is placed at 33 degrees right of the lamp. The lamps are positioned in the left fog position facing the door or the left bay.



Peak intensity, the 4bangers beat out the SS3 Sports.



33 degrees right, the SS3 Sports are 2.4x+ higher intensity than the 4bangers.

NCS white initial, using Nichia NCSY131F


NCS white stable using Nichia NCSY131F


17w initial dropping to 16w stable. Much smaller drop than the HXB as this power level does not generate the extreme heat that significantly reduces output. Both these measurements are short of the manufacture spec 20w power claim.

NCS selective yellow, using Nichia NCSW131F 3000k emitters


The picture really does not do this lamp justice. This is by far the most rich yellow fog on the market, bar none. The color is truly outstanding, but there is an efficiency price to be paid for that.

Chromaticity window, a legal selective yellow


Morimoto NCS selective yellow vs DD SS3 Sport in selective yellow. DD doesn't look that green in person, but the Morimotos yellow is so much better the camera makes the DD lights look greenish, even though they are also a great yellow.


Pattern width is the same as the HXB and white NCS. Intensity rapidly falls off to the sides of the NCS beam pattern. SS3 Sport yellow top vs 4banger NCS yellow bottom.

Peak intensity 4banger NCS vs SS3 Sports selective yellow


Fascinating the selective yellow lamps are the same for peak intensity. The 4banges have a hotspot driving higher intensity numbers in a small area, while the SS3 Sports will have a wider more evenly distributed higher intensity pattern throughout the beam pattern. While the white NCS units were higher output than the white SS3 Sports, that does not hold true for yellow. What this highlights is the differences in selective yellow output optimization.

The selective yellow lamps draw slightly less power than the white lamps. Initial startup on the selective yellow NCS.


Stable power on the NCS selective yellow


16.4w initial and 15.5w stable, about 0.5w less than the white lamps and again not close to the 20w power spec provided by Morimoto.

Optimization of selective yellow
Diode Dynamics pioneered optimizing lower color temperature emitters for increased effeciency in selective yellow optics, using their 4000k emitters with the yellow optics in the Sport and Pro. So how does the NCS selective yellow specific emitters from Morimoto compare in efficiency optimization?

NCS yellow w/ yellow lens (stock) vs NCS white 5700k w/ yellow lens vs NCS yellow with clear lens

Lens temps. 25min runtime at 71 degrees ambient.
NCS yellow w/ yellow lens (stock) vs NCS white 5700k w/ yellow lens vs NCS yellow with clear lens


4banger NCS yellow with clear lens swap. Clear lens swap results in a legal selective yellow chromaticity window output.


Yellow NCS w/ clear lens swap vs yellow NCS (stock)


While the yellow NCS with clear lens swap falls in the legal chromaticity window for selective yellow, it is pretty green and not a modification I'd recommend.

The NCS yellow incurs about 15.5% output loss though the yellow optic filtration ontop of the 18.5% output loss by using the NCS yellow emitters. Overall output loss from NCS white to NCS yellow is 31%, which is among the worst for yellow efficiency in the industry. Compared to Diode Dynamics SS3 Sports in selective yellow incurring a 7% loss from white to yellow due to the optimization with equal output 4000k emitters and lighter yellow more efficient optics.

4banger NCS white 5700k with yellow lens swap. Yellow lens swap results in a legal selective yellow chromaticity window output.


NCS white w/ yellow lens swap vs NCS yellow (stock)


Surprising. Morimoto would have a higher performing selective yellow product if they just reused the white 5700k NCS version with the yellow optic, vs going through the effort and cost of manufacturing a lower performing yellow specific emitter version of their lamp. Their NCS white + yellow optics already results in best in class yellow and falls in the legal chromaticity window for SAE selective yellow while providing 6.5% higher output and a 24% warmer lens temps while also reducing manufacturing parts count. The optimization mark was clearly missed on the NCS selective yellow lamps.

Notes:
Unlike Diode Dynamics the different optics colors are not available to purchase separately. I swapped mine by taking apart both white and yellow lamps and trading their optics for the purpose of understanding the optical performance efficiency in this review.

Morimoto mentioned these and the HXBs were never intended to be fogs. This was an offroad lamp that happened to meet the legal criteria for a fog lamp. This was an offroad lamp that has more of a low beam optic with a designated hot spot and graduated vertical pattern that isn't as wide as a fog..

 

Thank you for detailed report again, couple of notes from me.

First, about F3 mention, we withdraw F3 off from mention, if some of site still mention so, please inform Matt/Morimoto.

Background
Earlier development phase, it was designed to reach F3 functionality, and some early sampling showed F3 character, but considerable amount of units were found producing higher output volume than initially sampled units and global expectation.
NCS is tighter than HXB yet, still not as refined as secure F3 function, and higher than anticipated output volume units can compromise F3 function in some test points, rather than make adjustment to lower output to try grub the name of F3 badge on lowest quality of F3 function, we decided to rank as F function after all.

Sorry for confusion, but I am making it clear that NCS to be basic F function fog. To use as fog, safe way to aim is -3.5 degree down using front flat surface as reference. That will get lamp's cut off line 0.75D = cutoff to be 4" drop at 25'
For more refined F3 function, I am designing something with high sophistication, stay tuned for future update.



About Yellow color

It is redundant filtration over already yellow emitter. This was more for pursuing "color" of deep yellow. Really didn't pursue on intensity

Light color LOOKS yellow and light that is actually yellow has some difference outside of CCT recognition.
We recognize Green + Red as yellow, that is multi-range spectrum yellow and the other is something like low-pressure sodium lamp type of very narrow spectrum yellow, that is actually mostly only yellow color.
This must be dig down to spectral composure

Long story short, NSCY emitter itself is still pretty wide spectrum range yellow color. Wider the range is, more scatter, narrower the range is, more penetration with less scatter.
Filter with yellow lens over wide spectrum yellow make light closer to narrow spectrum yellow, yellow light that meaningfully has less spectral element variation.
Other than yellow illuminated impression gives sense of, ease of high contrast impression( Less color information than white, so it is not meaningless), wider spectrum yellow color won't benefit in fog or dusty environment as effective as narrow spectrum yellow.

And most of decision factor was simply color of deeper yellow was popular pick.


Anyways, always welcome any questions, suggestion and advise, I will continue taking feedback into new product development.

 

I changed the F3 mention to F. I'll double check where I got that.

Spectrum comparison of NCS white w/ yellow lens (green line) vs NCS yellow with yellow lens (purple line).

 

Thank you for showing that spectrum comparison, it shows both scenario is fairly similar range other than peak difference and slight survive at 440 looks like.
I must add explanation combination to CQS and GAI score of between two for fog penetration. Your spectral analysis is very useful to explain how fog penetration works with selective yellow.

Yellow lens over NCSY really cut down color variation based response, allow to show in contrast.
Plz highlight CQS and GAI difference.
Lower CQS means, complete opposite of what general lighting want(CQS is potency of color information display ability)= view rely on mono-tone contrast view.
Lower GAI = less potency shows color variation information
It has considerable difference between in fog/dusty particle penetration potency.

NCSYellow +Clear lens CQS 13 GAI 3
NCSWhite + Yellow lens CQS 9 GAI 2.4
NSCYellow + Yellow lens CQS 1 GAI 0.7

But,,, it is good point that you pointed out NSCwhite + Yellow lens can create 13C more heat at lens surface, this is something deserve some attention.
Even though, ambient +30C surface temp still won't significant enough to battle heavy sticky snow/blizzard, it does help with light frost.
Difference in fog penetration ability won't matter if its covered with snow ultimately. I shall add this notes to development research memo!

 

Check out these monster 6"+ lights in the bumper of my Dad's Subaru Baja (pretty sure they're fogs but didn't turn on the car to confirm). Don't know how they perform either.

 

White NCS w/ yellow optic vs yellow NCS w/ yellow optic


Higher CRI and GAI means more accurate color rendering (aka better).

Breaking it down to specific R-values:
White NCS w/ yellow optic vs yellow NCS w/ yellow optic


R-values to compare lighting quality with selective yellow optics to the competition:
Morimoto NCS selective yellow vs DD SS3 Sport selective yellow




Again, higher CRI and GAI means more accurate color rendering (aka better) along with higher R values. Diode Dynamics SS3s offer far better color rendering quality than Morimoto which have gaps in the color rendering for selective yellow.

Note that automotive industry standard is 70 CRI for white LED headlights. Yellow fogs are lower in CRI lighting quality.

Subaru has some pretty crazy fogs. I haven't tried those large 6"+ units, but I did experiment with these Subaru fogs in the Tacoma here.

 

For selective yellow, fog/dust penetration, you do not want to have color rendering. This is highly likely more than average user are looking for, but the reason "selective yellow" was considered better in fog/dusty environment is due to less available spectrum range. Wider, more balanced range is, better color rendering=higher CRI, GAI volume range, but that is the exact reason spectrum scatter happens going through particles. Ideal fog/dust penetrating selective yellow in terms of spectral composure is something like low pressure sodium lamp, which only emit single wavelength output ( it has no color rendering capacity other than its own color= no other color variation), it resulted to reduce spectrum variant based scattering.
For selective yellow to have higher GAI can mean it retain higher scatter possibility= less fog/dust penetration capability. For white light, certainly desired to have high CRI.

It is also studied that simply yellow appearing light color effectively enhance contrast impression, so I am not saying higher CRI selective yellow itself is pointless, it does have higher output volume we can recognize, that can benefit our view impression over scatter effect.
It is important to not there is a functional difference between wider GAI/higher CRI selective yellow and narrower GAI selective yellow color. In short, for the purpose of "selective yellow" in fog/dust penetration aspect, narrower GAI range is desired, considered as more "pure" yellow.
I still need to learn more on spectral selective range benefit and eye respond-able illuminance volume balance, but that's the background of how selective yellow concept is typically associated with fog application.

Please share impression/experience feedback and comments freely how I can adopt improve overall experience for future products. I would like to refine my knowledge, product development strategy aligns as close to user impression benefit.

 

I follow. However in practical application it is primarily the high energy short wavelength light (high color temps of blue, indigo and violet) that are problematic for scatter, and not just for scatter off of precipitation/dust but also scattering as glare in the human eye. Selective yellow removes these wavelengths. In this regard, a wider spectrum toward higher color temps is certainly not ideal, but a wider spectrum toward lower color temps isn't harmful. Good info on selective yellow from an industry expert here. However, as you point our a very narrow or single wavelength doesn't render color, it is monochromatic. This makes it difficult to tell similar colors apart, such as black and brown aka pavement and a dirt shoulder which define the edges of the roadway and highlighting this (the edge of the roadway) is the actual intent of a foglight, thus reducing their effectiveness.

As a monochromatic color example, the Morimoto XB amber fogs vs the KC G4 amber fogs. One could argue the spectrum slope on the higher color temp (shorter wavelength nm) isn't as ideal, but the small majority is in the longer wavelength spectrum. But most importantly, the amber G4s provide better visual recognition over the Morimotos which were extremely monochromatic and more difficult to visually process due to their narrow color band.



The Mormimotos had such a narrow wavelength they wouldn't register a color temp or CRI.


Longer wavelengths definitely do better in poor weather (they are easier to process and don't scatter), and I'd agree that wider spectrum which includes more shorter wavelengths/upper color temps isn't ideal, however expanding the color band into lower wavelengths provides visual benefits without incurring harm with scatter and glare while improving visual color recognition, and a very narrow/singular wavelength color band makes for a poor visual color recognition and driving experience.

 

Sorry it took me so long, but I got my hands on a set of fog pattern 6000K HXB 4Bagers and they went into my son's 2013 Scion tC replacing a set of Diode Dynamics selective yellow fogs.





Not bad for a car driven year-round in the rust belt and having 165,000 miles on it huh?

Why this car and not my 4Runner? I'm pretty happy with my DD Max fogs, but my son didn't care for the less well-defined horizontal cutoff with the Pros. Since the brackets and wiring are exactly the same in both vehicles, they went into the tC. How do they perform? See below.





A few observations here. First, the pictures were taken out of an open sunroof, so the angle is significantly different from the driver's seat. Second, the yellow hue is very, very nice. Third, these things are definitely impressive! (I think they could come up a bit, but they're actually aimed correctly.) Finally, the pattern is definitely narrower than the DD Pros, but very much in line with what my son was looking for.

So, we're going to leave these in my son's car for now and let him try them in all sorts of weather conditions since the car is driven year-round. I'll keep everyone informed, but so far, both my son and I are quite impressed.

 

Definitely a nice yellow hue on those 4bangers.

 

A very interesting and informative topic, almost too much technology for me. When we lived in Australia in the mid 70,s they use to run CIBE Super Oscar's with yellow lenses on them. Way back then they were impressive

 

I agree it's a great color. Is the fog light obstructed by the bumper design at all or does the higher viewing angle just highlight the lack of intensity at the edge of the beam pattern? Looks like a 70 degree pattern but I'm not sure how much is bumper interference.

 

While the bumper cover design on the tC may interfere with very slightly on the insides of the pattern, the outsides are wide open. As @crashnburn80 stated in his review, the narrower pattern is by design.

 

Almost designed for people with crappy (cough f150 cough) headlights.

 

With the clear lens and a fog pattern, they might actually be just what you need.

 

Too bad SAE Z beam standard has gone the way of the dodo. Being able to run a secondary set of (effective) lamps with lowbeams would be useful for lots of reasons.

 

Guess what's sitting in my basement stash just waiting for the perfect application?