Interviewing Etiquette

I'd be salty too. The question is what to do about it?

Having been on the other side of the table for most of my career I've got a few WTF interviews too. The best (worst) one was a guy interviewing for a mid level tech support job. He's wearing mix mash of suit, tie, shirt and pants that just don't work. But, whatever he at least tried. After introductions the first thing he does before any questions are asked is challenge my boss the CIO to an arm wrestle for the job. My boss has torn his rotator cuff and it is causing him a lot of pain and just the mention of arm wrestle causes him to winch. I ask him the first softball question "tell me about yourself." Hoo boy I was not prepared for his answer. He says he likes to get formality out of the way and breaks the ice with string of profanities. Think of 7 words you'd never say in an interview, yup that's what he said. I was done at that point but the CIO wanted to finish the whole interview. So the next softball question is asked "tell us about a time when you overcame adversity." For background I have my two male and one female managers in the room along with the CIO and everyone is white. He proceeds to tell us how he worked for a Black college and "those people" were too stupid and lazy to listen to him and how they should run their IT department. Along that path he puts down women and other people of color. More background, the CIO has adopted 3 black children and my group and his future peers look like a diversity poster not to mention his boss would have been a woman. We moved from softballs to hardball tech questions and I've seen 5 year old kids playing T-Ball do better. Never in my life have I wanted something to end so much. Needless to say he got the "I'm sorry" email.

 

Yikes. Even the mish mash like you said at least the effort was there..and who knows maybe something happened last second, let's face it life happens when we're making other plans. That said, the conduct following such is clearly ridiculous. As an aside, re the diversity and the adopted children you mentioned..an old colleague of mine was dragged to HR by two black ladies he disciplined for poor performance saying he was being sexist and racist. Fortunately he's always been fastidious about documenting such things. Long story short he sits down and says he first would like to learn more about everyone at the table's life outside of work and mentioned that he's married with a stepson and is the father of twins (boy/girl), loves coaching Little League, etc..then the family picture he carries every day was pulled out and shown to them. His wife and stepson were black (very dark) and his children mixed. You can guess what happened next....

I always try to remember it's true some people don't interview well..and especially this can be true on either side of the table. That said, I would never have the gall to walk into even a gas station or convenience store for a job interview in the attire my interviewer felt was appropriate and I damn sure wouldn't be bringing my phone much less answering it for my vacation yikes.

Not really sure what's next for me. I'm almost tempted to just call the people who interviewed me and give them a polite earful of guff in a way.

 

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Skip the earful and guff, keep the polite and ask for feedback on your interview performance and qualifications. It might get you useful feedback, or it might confirm problems at the company. If you can, bring a cup of coffee or such for them and do it in person.

That said, doing that can be uncomfortable, I can see situations where I could pull it off and others where I would not have the nerve.

 

Just to weigh in here, its all speculation to us. Why they approached you to interview? We'd all like to assume someone at some point saw great value in you regarding the position (or three). Why didn't they choose you? They likely saw more value elsewhere; and that hurts to here. When they don't have the backbone to fill you in, it says a lot about them. Loyal employees leave positions every day because of this. Not saying you should or shouldn't. Only you can decide if looking elsewhere or taking a direct approach to leadership for answers is worth it.

My recommendation; schedule a meeting/lunch/coffee/etc with whoever makes those decisions. Take the time to thank them for interviewing and considering you for the position, even though you did not get it. Then dive into the reason for asking for the meeting; you didn't get the position, and there are reasons. You'd like to know them so that you may improve those areas for yourself, and hopefully become a more suitable choice next time, showing that you've been loyal, you'll remain loyal, and you're truly looking to do what it takes to be the best fit for the company. Depending on how that meeting goes, you'll likely know what you should do moving forward. Don't fall for false promises. Don't be afraid to set time lines. Don't demand things, but ask if its appropriate if you follow up in 6 months/1 year regarding this conversation/promotion. Again, you'll then know what your next move should be.

 

Yeah, it would be momentarily fun to go the guff route but not the "right" thing. I'm fully remote so not a face to face option really.

True, I'd be curious where I fell short but I can live with that. Getting ghosted is what ticks me off especially since they made the time to reach out when the posting went up to ask me to apply for it.

 

If i were you, i would reach out and ask why were you were ultimately overlooked for the position in the least passive aggressive manner you can, in a way that is more curiosity and how you can improve yourself there. Depending on their response; may be what you were expect all along(we found two more qualified candidates blah blah blah) or might be a far left field reply which you had never considered. It sounded like they could see you working on their team and maybe should've offered you one of the two/three positions and only went through the hassle of hiring one candidate. Hiring is expensive and time consuming, a lateral move with you being internal for 22 years is considerably less work for them.

If your efforts at this point are brushed off you should just move on while you are still at a reasonable age. Can guarantee they believe you're going no where at this point so prove them wrong and worst case you are counter offered and given what you want, or are shown the door meaning they aren't worth your efforts for the next decade.

This does make it more difficult in just about every situation to gauge what is actually going on at the company.

 

I think I read you have 22 years in? Anything too good to give up? Like, Four or five weeks vacation? Any retirement benefits like a pension? Anything holding you there other than momentum? Sounds like you’ve peaked at the company. Stay polite but look around and see what else is out there.

 

Could be worth it, though the lack of any followup is more incensing than not being chosen. Never really know the competition when going for a job regardless of where. I've been full remote since March 2020, was in house all along until then.

5 weeks vacation. Pension which I have the 20 years time needed but it can't be touched until age 55. Not sure how that works if I leave prior to that age, something I need to look into. The 5 weeks is very helpful with 2 ill family members presently

 

Being honest about seeing that they've hired a couple of people and inquiring if you are still in the running might not hurt. It shows you are interested and forces them to tell you what is going on -- or make up a story. They may be more concerned about finding people from the outside and getting them on board, knowing that you are internal and that's a bit easier. If you get the job, that leaves another opening that they have to hire for. But it's kind of unprofessional to leave you hanging.

 

One other question. How’s your medical insurance? Do you get health coverage when retired? With Medicare the first question they ask you is how much do you make. I’m paying thousands more for Medicare then what I was paying for full COBRA (basically same coverage).

Sounds like you have a decent deal, which will be hard to replicate. Look before you leap.

 

Being remote definitely makes things way harder. Nearly all accountability goes out the window when face to face conversations turn virtual. Look at social medias as our biggest examples. Look here (TW). Getting ghosted sucks, and obviously is the part that bothers you, more than not getting the job. Even if it has to be a scheduled Zoom call, and a lunch/coffee meeting can't happen, go above and beyond; I encourage you to not turn the situation into a bitter heartbreak, but a catalyst that propels you above the rest, even when you don't get the job. Loyalty doesn't mean as much as we'd hope these days with employers. 22 years is noteworthy, but I've seen folks milk a job for 20+ years and not deserve the promotion that some new fresh kid came in and got. (thats not implying that you don't deserve it, just a note that loyalty isn't the only ingredient needed, and not to get hung up on it). Its a really awesome selling point, but someone else pointed out that if you move up, someone else has to replace a 22 year seasoned professional; that could be harder than hiring for the position you're looking into.

Maybe since a face to face lunch meeting isn't doable, but is obviously what is needed, make it happen anyways. Schedule the meeting, send the invite, ask for lunch preferences, and have it delivered. Eat and chat over zoom if you have to. Food doesn't pull secrets out of people, but it sure does allow for both sides to drop the work BS, stuff their face, and just be people for a minute. Sometimes that goes a long way. I don't think any major decisions without some sort of addressing of the ghosting is a good idea. For all we know, there's a "sorry we didn't choose you" draft or a "we think you'll be a better fit in this other even better position" draft just sitting in someone's mailbox that never got sent. There are too many unknowns.

 

Maybe you should ask them.

 

That's another big reason. It was better long ago but that's everyplace pretty much, it's still pretty damn good both in terms of the actual coverage plus my cost per paycheck. Let's say I was to retire from there at 55, they'd give me $7K a year towards the premium for myself and my wife. The pension I mentioned prior was better..in short they put money in each year, I don't have the option to. They stopped doing so 2 years ago but what's there is still there. I do get a decent enough 401K match in addition.

Very true how remote/message boards/social media has changed life not just work. And you definitely said it right, it's the ghosting that is what mostly upsets me right now.

The point about replacing me where I am..in recent times several colleagues have suggested to me (unsolicited, so not like I went to them for input) that perhaps my current management could be part of why I've not been able to advance. I am definitely top 5-10 in production of about 100 in my unit plus always asked to help other associates. My current leader is definitely a "go along to get along" type for sure.

Part of what I'm mulling over. I haven't yet because I'm trying to at least give benefit of the doubt that they got busy, were out of office, etc.

 

If they gave you a timeline, and its past that time frame, its time to ask. You gave the benefit of the doubt, and now you're just filled with doubt. If considering leaving for a new job is even in the cards, there's nothing to lose.

 

Well, that was festive!

I was on vacation 2 weeks ago. I returned to find an instant message on our internal system from the hiring manager (3 months later) asking if we could talk later that week. At risk of being whiny, that system shows if you're not in the office that day plus I set up my banner stating my being out and return date. Seems a tad passive aggressive maybe..

So I reply upon returning and she took 3 days to answer. Told her I was at lunch starting at 130 that day but was available otherwise. Had a missed call at 145..ugh.

She finally connected with me and said someone else knew the pharmacy software. Mind you it was known I don't use it in my role, and when I shadowed I had seen it used. Been a while since my role called for it but I remembered it. Strange. When she said they went with someone else I did mention I had heard on the wind the role was filled about 8 weeks ago (nothing more). She was "busy" was the reason she never got back to me prior. Said feel free to drop her a line anytime even if just to chat "because I always enjoy talking to you be it business or fun".

Odd that she blew me off 3 months yet enjoys talking to me. Not too impressed.

 

I came to the conclusion a long time ago that most people suck. It is constantly reinforced. This is a clear case of a manager that avoids delivering bad news. It's the worst part of being a manager, but it's what you sign up for -- your job is no longer doing the work, it's dealing with the people that are doing the work. BS is not required.

I've just been asked to go fix a project that was pulled from under me 18 months ago (some higher power had some different ideas). They didn't have time to understand what we were doing and why, and they totally messed it up. Now what we were trying to do before is a top priority.

 

The silver lining is that's a major dodged bullet. I worked for someone who had issues with conflict avoidance. It did not go well. He was so afraid to relay feedback on basic things like formatting, changes in project deadlines, unexpected data results, etc etc that I still missed half of it despite constantly asking. That was the kind of boss that would rather complain to the upper bosses and try to get me fired because that was easier than having even a single conversation where we could hash out expectations. That's the kind of worm that would tell everyone in the halls "Lobster really fucked up his TPS report," I would approach him and say "I heard through the grapevine that there's negative feedback on my TPS report, can we chat?" ; only to get the response "your report was good, you're doing fine."

I saw the direction that was headed and left as quickly as possible.

 

This manager is younger but that closing the loop stuff should be just the basics. Why she went out of her way in the interview to gush over me saying she was hoping I would apply and then act like this is beyond me.

Interesting dichotomy there in your example. Saw that long ago in my building maintainence career, a potential customer didn't like the owner of my company's price and pretty much scoffed at him. Turns out after getting other bids that the first one was the best one financially by far and the job was done top notch.

Totally is a bullet. Shitty conduct and poor right now but I guess it's "reap what you sow" type stuff. Let's just say if we were still in the office and I was to see her in the parking garage having car trouble I'd be too busy to stop but I'd make sure to wave and say " good night" to her so she would know I knew.

One can only hope your former manager drowned in the cesspool he created.

 

Yeah..turns out they just hired on a 3rd person. I only learned about it because it's someone in my unit who I'm friendly with, we both arrived in this area 14 years ago at the same time.

They also don't use the pharmacy software application and haven't in 14 years, just the same as myself.

In short, it's the problem for me having the job that I haven't done it in 14 years but it's not a problem that someone else hasn't in 14 years. How truly frustrating when you have no consistency..

 

you might be the wrong skin color or gender.

I'm not kidding, I've seen it in promotion quotas in the government and with companies.

they pretty much have to hire x, y, z to meet some fkin magic numbers or demographics.