The LED SAE J583 Fog Pod & Fog Light Review

I was thinking the same thing lol
But the snow is wet wet when it does snow. There's a reason why the whole city shuts down.

 

Yes, but it's chaos when it does.

 

I grew up there, I don't miss it. Folks outside the lower mainland are generally better prepared for winter driving though the first storm of the year is chaos wherever you are.

 

Pretty much west side of the Cascades south through OR. Nothing like 32 degree slop falling and then clearing out into the teens.

 

Please don't tell me this is a recent photo. As much as I love seeing the SS3 snow-melting power, I am not ready for that yet...

Paul

 

January 2021, but it sounds like this winter is gonna be a bitch!

 

Glad you're at least prepared even if you don't use them much for snow they should help a lot in the rain, that's at least what I am hoping I just finished installing mine.

 

Great, totally understand what you’re saying.
As more of theoretical question, how is the wider beam of the SS3 more useful than say the NCS for comparison. In the SAE tests, it reports the 3D 15L/R values are the edges of the roadway. Beyond the width of this, is that light still useful on the road? I could see a benefit on a multi lane road to see even further left/ right, but is it still useful on a 2 lane road?

 

It is beneficial to have side illumination if you look side, or while taking the corner, SS3 will provide far edge illuminance impression strongly.
However, bit tricky to explain, but In typical on-road straight line drive, NCS likely provide slightly more illuminance coverage impression range at immediate road edge detection zone ( this is when lamp is CORRECTLY aimed)
SS3 max will show higher illuminance at immediate road edge, but coverage impression can be different. It's hard to explain without visual.. I will work on this.
(If Elite is your choice, it will perform much better for on road use, you will actually see beneficial beam coverage far more than SS3 max can provide. )

On road usage, if I can suggest include Elite then
Elite - 4B NCS - SS3 Sport - SS3 Max/4B HXB for beam coverage benefit


If lamp are aimed correctly, likely more than lower 3/4 of the beam isn't visible from driver view. At proper aim, NCS can be aimed 0.5 degree higher than SS3 Max, this result in larger visible driver view immediate road edge coverage in theory. SS3 has vertically symmetrical beam = brightest zone is 4.6D down If lamp mount height is 24' Peak intensity land on the ground about 7.6m from the lamp
For NCS peak will land on the ground about 8.7m from the lamp

Driver visibility line start from about 8~10m depend on sitting height, so both of lamp, you won't even see peak intensity on the ground.
What you will see is above beam peak zone, how much illuminance is layout above beam peak zone determine what you actually will see from driver view. Higher aim-able lamp will have greater coverage within allowed fog beam aim.


Problem is, vast majority of user do not understand correct fog aim, and not using as SAE fog lamp. Then, SS3 will have far greater width coverage.
But this is causing glare limit above SAE defines.


I can put graphic together including vehicle specific driver view impression what actual SAE fog and Fog aim mean and should look like, allow me a week or so. Hope it helps some of those who are interested in.
What's the typical driver view height for Tacoma user? And average fog lamp height?

I make calculation, and visualization and update here as SAE fog study material



Summery, if you are strictly talking about SAE Fog topic, On-road usage, SS3 max or 4 Banger HXB is not so much of advantage. Too bright, and have to be aimed substantially low ( 4B HXB bracket must be adjusted to almost all the way low, don't know about SS3 bracket, but 4.5 degree down aim is required)
Using flat front surface of pod, with small level to check aim on flat leveled ground. Anything higher than 4.5 degree lowered, then, it's not SAE allowed aim=aimed too high for on-road use.

Sport is slightly better, but still likely require greater than 4~4.5 degree downward aim. NCS is better choice 4 degree downward aim suggested, Elite is great choice ( because it can be aimed higher due to much sharper gradient control)
But Pro, shall not be used on the On-road application. They are no way SAE F fog lamp. To prevent glare, aim must be at least 6~6.5 degree downward aim. At that aim, beam is so far down low aimed, won't be able to see much of illumination

 

Yoshi provided a very thorough answer above. In simplistic terms though, if you have a heavily winding roadway the 15L/R value will be insufficient. Those values may look great on a straight roadway, but you need far better in real world applications. I regularly drive highway 2 over the pass in WA in terrible winter conditions at night, it is an extremely windy, narrow and dangerous 2 lane highway through the cascades. Prolonged hard banked turns in near white out conditions need drastically better than a 15 degree pattern side spread, that would make you nearly blind in the corners. A complete non-starter. Might look great on a light plot, chart or simulation but it will be insufficient in real world application in a snow storm on a windy mountain roadway. While the lighting reviews posted in this thread are bench tested, I put the best products through their paces on my truck afterward. You might be interested in post #5586.

 

Ha, I forgot about turning. Yes that makes a ton of sense.

This is all very informative. I’ve learned more about lights in this thread than anywhere else.

Admittedly, I drive an F150 but all of this info directly applies.

Question about selective yellow. I understand how yellow is better for visibility in snow, fog, dust. However, are those benefits negated with bright LED low beam headlights (6500K ish)? Does the glare/ scattering produced by the low beams hurt vision enough to not have a benefit from the yellow?

I don’t have any numbers to put behind this example. On my F150 I run the Morimoto XB Led headlights which are quite blue (no posted color temp online) and very bright. I was wondering if those would sort of overpower the benefits of yellow fogs in conditions where the yellow could be useful.

 

Absolutely worth it for 2 lane roads! That's probably where the SS3's shine the most IMO, pun intended!! The improved ability to see the ditches is what makes me stick with the DD SS3's. Granted I haven't ridden in a vehicle with the Morimoto units to see them first hand, but based off the photometric data I think my assumption is validated. Like Crash stated, the added width really helps with seeing into the corners which are often tighter on 2 lane roads. I have avoided quite a few objects and obstacles on the road that I may not have seen if it weren't for the SS3's.

I have the SS3 Pro Selective Yellow on our Subaru Ascent and it has helped a lot with visibility in every weather scenario and road type. I know it's taboo to run the fog lights in dry conditions but I have them on anytime the headlights are on since the extra width is great to spot those pesky ditch critters and I seem to have less eye fatigue on long drives since the Selective Yellow seems to mute the LED headlights near field UV light spectrum intensity. I know it actuality doesn't do the latter in, but my eyes perceive it as such and helps me...that's what counts. By the book compliance/absolute proper use has it's place and is certainly there for a reason. But don't get stuck on that as long as it works for you and it doesn't affect other drivers on the road negatively. I'm sure this paragraph will get criticism but I'm prepared for that...lol

FWIW, I have the SS3's on my Ascent since that's our long road trip vehicle and absolutely needed them. Crash tested my OEM fog LED Subaru fog lights a while back and it's clear to see why they were so horrible. The amount of UV light spectrum made poor weather driving worse as it added more glare from rain/snow from the drivers perspective. The opposite of what a fog light should do. I haven't felt the need to upgrade my Tacoma's fog lights since they are the H11 wide beam fog lights and with a high performance bulb they perform very well as is! Plus I don't take it on long road trips at night often. Now if you have the H16 fog lights, then I would absolutely get some SS3's!

 

See my post above about the Selective Yellow and cutting down on the light color intensity bothering your eyes.

If you're impressed by the Morimot XB fog lights, then your mind will be BLOWN by ANY version off the SS3's. Even the SS3 Sport Selective Yellow blows the XB fog lights out of the water!

 

Based on these past few posts, I have a question for the experts here if you all would be so kind. It might be a dumb question so please forgive my ignorance. Are the SS3 Max street legal?

 

My message may have been difficult to convey, about aimed view
Width impression is hugely impacted by aim and actual available driver view.
What I meant was, IF you aim each lamp correctly, width impression effect of SS3 reduced grater than 4B NCS.

This is reference view, click image for video ( I have not refined Tacoma vehicle specific viewing range fine tune, but based on 24" fog lamp height, emulated hood length and driver eye height around 1.4m

I selected windy road view with driver view shift to the turning direction to show how width impression appear to driver eyes

Left top is SS3 Pro Left Bottom SS3 Max Right top 4B NCS Right bottom 4B HXB
Width of the SS3 max won't be much of visible when lamp is aimed correctly.
SS3 Pro 6.5D aim SS3 max 4.6D aim 4B NCS 4D aim 4B HXB 4.5D

Pro Max NCS HXB aimed SAE by Yoshi, on Flickr

When lamp is aimed INcorrectly, this maybe the impression many of user here is perceiving. But this is not how proper SAE F aim should look like.

Glare seen at curve sign reflection amount. At SAE F specified aim, those reflection shall be minimum

In this kind of incorrect too high aim, then SS3 Pro have greatest visible coverage, but it is severely wrong aim.

Same order

Left top is SS3 Pro Left Bottom SS3 Max Right top 4B NCS Right bottom 4B HXB
SS3 Pro 3D aim SS3 max 2.5D aim 4B NCS 4D aim 4B HXB 4.5D
Pro -3 max -2.5 NCS HXB Aimed by Yoshi, on Flickr


When lamp are aimed correctly, you highly likely will NOT see much of intense beam at all. If you seeing it, then aimed too high ( if you are strictly stick to SAE F compliance talk) At least, you should be aware of glare is exceeding above SAE F limit definition.

You must understand being NOT compliant doesn't conclude as it is illegal. ( when you talk about fog lamp)

Test report that I obtained, SS3 max did not show defined enough gradient ( = cutoff), and observer did not give J583 F function compliance result. Photometric table, it satisfied requirement.
Manufacture claims as SAE compliant, ask for their report if you deeply concern.

There is no federal law define fog lamp legality, therefore, being not compliant does not mean it is not legal.
They are regulated by each individual state or province. Some of jurisdictions have vehicle equipment codes that stipulate front fog lamp must comply with SAE J583, most do not.
And aiming definition is applied to compliance test only, not enforcing that definition into how to be aimed once installed on vehicle.

But I suggest you to follow SAE F function aiming protocols. There is a reason why compliance test point and aiming was established. It's purely for safety.

If you concern about on-road safety, far more important thing is to focus on aiming. Understand what is the proper aiming suggested by SAE F function
Even OEM selected fully compliant product can be used wrongly with wrong aim to cause severe glare effect.

As far as my data collection, required aiming is
SS3 Max 4.5D
SS3 Pro 6~6.5D
4B NCS 4.0D
4B HXB 4.5D
SS3 Sport 4.3D~4.5D ( this is my guestimation, I don't have photometric test, but emitter uses same vertical height dimension as SS3 Max- which is HXB emitter, simulation shows similar gradient achievement, so I would say reasonable guess)

Since none of those lamp have human eye detectable cutoff line, it is best to use phone digital level feature, put against flat front surface of lamp/bezel to see how 4.5D aim look like, and match R and L, probably that's the only way to aim correctly.
Many information tells 4" down at 25', this is accurate, but only possible when beam has visually distinct cutoff line.

 

Plenty of non-Tacoma owners in this thread, and at least a few F-150 owners as well. Here are my color temp measurements for the Tacoma Morimoto XB headlights, Gen 1 vs Gen 2. I'd assume they are likely they same/very similar for the F-150. Both are about 6000k or below, which is good for an LED headlight. While the Tacoma has outstanding OEM LED headlights, the F-150 has terrible OEM LEDs.

Morimoto XB Gen 1 vs Gen 2


High color temp LEDs do poorly in bad weather. The highly reflective blue light in the ~6000k color temp reflect off the precipitation back at the driver, making you see the rain/snow/fog rather than what is beyond it. Even with LED headlights, selective yellow fogs will be beneficial. The headlights will not shine as low or as wide as the fogs when properly aimed. The warmer color temps are also easier to visually process in bad weather. The only time fogs should be run is when conditions are poor and the weather calls for them, and in those conditions selective yellow will always be superior to 6000k LED white.

As a regular contributor to these threads, you should know not to run fogs anytime the headlights are on, especially with the SS3 Pros. I hope you are not doing that with oncoming traffic.

Diode Dynamics claims the SS3 Max meets SAE J583 F compliance. Morimoto/TRS sent units to CalCoast labs for testing and they claimed the lamp failed compliance on gradient. I am personally unfamiliar with CalCoast as nearly every other professional lighting manufacture uses the well established Intertek for compliance testing.

Those simulations show approaching a turn. I'm talking long mountain turns virtually not possible to take at highway speeds, those with a suggested 35mph limit on a highway where your headlights don't even illuminate the roadway ahead sufficiently due to the very hard curve angles. But if you screw up the drop to the bottom is only several 100s of feet at minimum. The highway is in the top 10 deadliest highways in the USA, it does not follow conventional highway turn radiuses.

 

My favorite spot for the SS3 MAX was this stretch of 74 into Palm Desert. Downside is, even late at night you still have oncoming traffic heading up the hill while you descend. I would drive that with one hand on the stalk to control fogs like I did higher up with high beams. Super nice when you have clear roads to enjoy the width and hit the curves as smooth as possible (my wife routinely gets carsick and the kids have puked in the van a few times too, not super fun).

Granted, only once did I see heavy fog and it was mostly at the top rather than the ascent/descent.

 

Simulation was to illustrate

1. when those listed fog lamps are aimed based on SAE F aim, how beam supposed to look like to driver view.
2. If lamp are aimed higher as none On-road usage, then very wide beam can reach far road edge with SS3

I think many people aim SS3 very high, and think it has great width coverage, but that is because it is aimed much higher than it supposed to be as F function fog lamp.
Actual 0.75D aim will look nearly unrecognizable beam from driver view. That's what I wanted to explain. And the reason I also suggested Elite for superior coverage for On-road usage.

I align with you, I also recommend SS3 over 4B for those far edge illuminance required occasion, but user shall not confused such width can't be obtained unless it is aimed above F function defined aim. Such aim shall not be intended for on-road usage.
In short, off-road usage primary, and when there is no on-coming traffic with full understanding of aiming is not proper, but use so with acknowledgment.

This thread was about J583 particularly, so I am trying to provide more information about what J583 actually means.

I bet many will surprise how different when lamp are actually aimed per 4" drop at 25' protocol.
Only way to achieve this, you must use digital level at lamp front bezel or flat surface.
Because these lamps do not have visually distinct enough cutoff line we can refer to.



First video shows when lamp are aimed based on tested SAE F function, where glare level remain under maximum allowance, then vertically symmetrical SS3 beam brightest zone hit the ground very close to the vehicle, as a result, very wide impression one the wall will not translated into driver view impression.
Narrow 4B NCS can be aimed much higher compare to Pro for example, then visible zone covers slightly stronger at immediate road edge, but none of lamp reach far edge illumination. WHEN aimed correctly per F function.
The reason of NCS shows slight more immediate foreground coverage illuminance is because tighter gradient allowed lamp to be aimed slightly higher.

Second video is showing how SS3 Pro, Max illuminates far side edge very well, but this is because lamp are aimed higher than F function fog supposed to be.
To be exact, Pro was aimed 3.5 degree higher than it supposed to be, and Max was aimed 2 degree higher than it supposed to be.
Both of lamp cause significant glare at this aim, but you can see how wide and well illuminate the greater view area.

Just make sure, that use shall understand this is not correct aim if they are talking about F function fog for on-road usage. If lamp output beam like that, it is causing glare certainly.

For solo driving situation, or off-road usage, I have no question or objection that SS3's superior width benefit far width illumination capability.