Death Valley Off-Road Adventures

Report did mention future plans to go to an online service for permits but no timeline. Not sure that is better if it results in all permits being grabbed 6 months in advance or worse results in people in inadequate vehicles applying for permits when they discover all regular campsites are already reserved in advanced. If they implement it like Turweep, it also means having to pass through a manned gate to verify your permit or daily ranger walk-by asking to see your papers.

 

Usually, you get a permit and it sit wherever. If Ranger Rick rolls up on you and asks for it, you better have it. Otherwise, no one cares.

 

Just glimpsing at those documents they are from 2013 and 2012. Was there recent mention of them or is there a timeline within them stating when any changes would come into effect?

 

The Stewardship and Wilderness documents are included by reference and were probably some of the first completed.

 

I haven't really looked into the effects of the road closures that carefully since I have no plans to visit any time soon, but I am throwing together some combos in Google Maps now.

Stovepipe to Lee Flat: 5.5 hours

Crazy. Just shows how important that stretch of the 190 is.

 

Very.

 

I was just looking at the DV Status Map here https://www.nps.gov/deva/planyourvisit/conditions.htm in anticipation of a trip in a few weeks. The description of Lippincott, which is open, is “Note: Always gnarly!” The exclamation mark is their’s.

 

drove up Lippincot on monday 10/24, turned around at the sign, and drove down. nicely gnarly!
on 10/26 I chatted with three Canadians, each in a 'built' 80 series LC, their interpretation of 'closed roads' was different than mine, they were going up Lippincot, TeaKettle, Burro Gap, Hunter, and ultimate destination was Darwin...
The lead gent interpreted closed Racetrack to mean closed between Ubehebe and TeaKettle...I said it was closed the length of Racetrack from the top of Lippincot. We agreed to disagree.

 

In 1984 there was a big storm that washed out Titus Canyon among other roads. Three or four of us on dual-sport bikes (we didn’t use that term then, maybe dual-purpose?) got to a sign that said “Road washed out ahead” a few miles off the highway and went around it. To be honest, it was really a barricade but there was room for our bikes to get by without going off the road. We dropped down into Leadfield on a very slick and rutted, mud and snow covered stretch and encountered a ranger in a Dodge Ramcharger. He started yelling at us that the road was closed, got more upset when we said that the sign just said washed out, not closed, and gave us all tickets. Then he made us turn around and go out the “wrong way” back towards Nevada. Getting up the first grade was sketchy. But at least I can say I’ve gone both directions on (at least part of) that road. After writing us up he got a bit friendlier and told us that he couldn’t make it up that hill, which was the worst part, so he would exit at the mouth of the canyon, which is how he’d come in. But he wouldn’t let us follow him.

 

I'm thinking I would've just turned around as soon as I saw him if possible? But like you said it didn't say closed so you'd think no biggie. What was the ticket for? He wouldn't let you out? Sorry but what a d*^k.

 

Having been to Canada a few times recently, this may be due to a difference in the way that roads are "closed" there. In Canada - at least the southeast portion of BC where I've explored the Kootenay mountains a bit - roads are closed by being "deactivated." Essentially, that means that the Ministry of Forests has deemed the road closed for one reason or another (washouts and safety being the most common, I think) and in many cases they build a couple berms over the road.

A sign is then posted - often just nailed to a tree - warning that the road is deactivated.

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But, as far as I can tell, there's no enforcement of the deactivation, however. Travel may be difficult or impossible (and technically not allowed), but it largely becomes up to the driver to make that decision when they encounter a section of trail that they don't want to navigate.

All that said, as an American in Canada, I'd be grateful for any information that a local provided me to educate me on various terminology or cultural differences/interpretations when I was in Canada, so I'd sort of expect the same of Canadians when they were in the US; it's a bummer that those guys didn't take your advice. Thanks for giving it anyway, as I think a lot of folks would just as, "Where you headed?" and then not feel comfortable enough to try to educate when the answer seemed wrong.

 

I find the most useful thing is to offer a friendly and seemingly conspiring warning like, “that’s officially closed and they’ve been writing big tickets to people going around the closures - rangers have been out a bunch lately”. If they ask why then go into whether it is for safety or resource conservation. Some people might not care about a safety warning but might understand the conservation reason. Or the other way around. Or they don’t care about both, but aren’t interested in a fine.

 

The descent into Leadfield was slick and badly rutted and turning around there was beyond our ‘80’s bikes’ and DOT tires’ capability, or at least beyond mine. Besides, we didn’t think we were doing anything ticketable. But the tickets were for driving on a closed road. The Canadians may get the same treatment if caught. But to be fair, as @turbodb points out above, the BC regulations are different … when we were there last month, we also encountered these “de-activated” roads. We did NOT attempt any of them in our 148” wheelbase high roof van.

 

And of course, even if it was open up to Tea Kettle, the road from Tea Kettle up to White/Lost Burro junction is also specifically closed! Thanks for trying to keep them informed!

 

Decades ago my wife and I were riding our mountain bikes legally in the Eastern Sierra and got off trail somehow. We soon stumbled upon another well defined trail and continued on our way. We encountered a few hikers who gave us the stink eye, ignoring our greetings. Soon after, we met a friendly guy who asked us if we knew that we were in a designated Wilderness where mountain bikes aren’t allowed. We insisted that we hadn’t seen any signage, but he added that there was a FS ranger just up the trail and he might not accept that excuse. I thanked the guy and we turned around and walked our bikes back down to the next trail junction where there was indeed a Wilderness Boundary sign … which we had not passed on our way in. I suspect that there probably was no ranger up the trail, but the hiker’s friendly tactic worked on us.

 

and he told you to go back up that? what if you couldn't make it?

 

I think there's a fine line between citations and warnings. Personally, I think education is a much better alternative to a citation but more and more, the ticket book just comes out and zero fucks are given as to why. And that just leads to more of a divide between users and managers. Not many people post saying "I got a ticket and learned a valuable lesson" it's usually a little more adversarial. I got a parking ticket which is described as "using park resources without paying". The dog park was closed but neither I or the friend I met saw the sign at the gate. Apparently, others didn't see it either. So while there might have been a sign, a lot of people didn't see it. I was there for less than 20 minutes and didn't use any resource. But my opinion of the park rangers changed. He wouldn't listen to shit. The other thing is they have an iron ranger that's most often broken and a booth that is usually manned. Didn't care. Didn't like it when I asked if it might not have been more productive to man the booth than hide and write tickets either. Property taxes are due this month so the almost $100 in parcel taxes to fund the parks makes this a little more difficult to swallow as well--from now on, I plan on parking outside the park and walk in.

 

It's tough but it seems like more people are willfully breaking the rules and then pleading ignorance. It's a fine line between the two and sometimes the person writing the ticket has seen enough violations and is just at the end of their rope with warnings.

 

Good advice. In this specific case, one could even suggest that "rangers have been out a bunch lately b/c they are checking the closed roads and working to get them opened."

This is exactly what I was thinking. Can't go up to Hidden Valley/Hunter Mountain anyway!

I think the problem is that - more and more - people just don't care what the rules are, and break them multiple times (perhaps at different places, but that's irrelevant). Probably not in the case of your dog park, but a lot of people end up "off trail" or "in wilderness" or <generally doing something they know is shady> because they want to get a shot of it for their social media fame.

 

THIS! When you see the asshats at Yellowstone leaving the boardwalks, walking up to wildlife, etc. you start to lose your faith in humanity.....

I love the nickname "touron"

https://mycountry955.com/top-10-absolute-worst-tourist-incidents-at-yellowstone-national-park/