The LED SAE J583 Fog Pod & Fog Light Review

Correct, they are actually slightly higher output than SS3 Sport. Very nice performance.

 

I was just sharing a single data point. Out of curiosity, on your previous post regarding the 6° downward angle suggested for the pros. How does the addition of the angled bezel and being recessed in the bumper affect this, if at all?

 

recess hardly affect beam vertical scatter level. In typical TIR collimator, most of vertical scatter is coming from each lens center region. Because center area collimation is achieved by very short focus distance smaller lens in the middle= smaller lens/shorter focus distance, hard to collimate strong.
And this collimation efficiency drop happen particular greater with larger light source size. This is the reason why Max has much more dense efficiency collimation, while Pro emitter's emission surface size is much bigger than Max, make it more difficult to collimate at higher efficiency.

Therefore, Even if some of the lens edges are blocked, vertical scatter level does not change. = aiming suggestion remain same. But having edge of the lens blocked will reduce overall intensity.
Look into the lens from direct front, you will see center circle on each lens, and called reflector segment(outer circle cone ) of each lens 4 lenses in SS3 case,
Further out from the center gets stronger collimation, so if bezel, or bumper block outer zone of each TIR lens, overall beam center efficiency drop little bit.

If slanted, angled bezel are used, inner angle will be blocked largely, this result in beam to be cut short on inner angle, but beam center intensity won't be shaven by this.

It's little hard to explain verbally, if you are very much into optics, I can make visual explain, PM me
It will be beyond SAE fog topic, more like optical study kind.

 

@Diode Dynamics what are the official output gains for the 6000k white and 3000k selective yellow SS3 Max with the backlight vs the standard Max without the backlight? All beam patterns if you have the specs or if I have to ask for one, it would be the selective yellow in SAE Fog. Thanks.

 

Not selective yellow data, but here are sample data I have obtained for white color. Max with back light improved stability at T=30 greater than 6% Power was bumped up by 20% but E-max increase was only 2%
It's limit of heatsink capacity, but considerable amount of thermal resistance reduction is estimated.

Total heat power is 20% higher with Max with back light, for snow combat potency is highest with Max with back light.

 

Specs I've seen show similar power bump of roughly 20% but a slightly better output intensity increase of ~5%+. The backlight circuits have higher thermal resistance, accounting for the loss of efficiency despite the higher power. Regardless a few percentage points are not going to be perceivable to the naked human eye, only in good instrumented testing. So I'd call it a wash. If you want a backlight, buy the backlight. If not, don't. Personally I prefer simplicity and don't see the need or complexity for backlights.

 

The last 10 posts or so show / prove why this is the best automotive lighting forum on the planet. Thank you to all involved!

 

I dunno, hotter meaning more snow melt, if that’s what you’re after, buying the backlight model and not using the backlight, that could make some sense. Particularly when coupled with LED headlights for bad weather safety.

 

higher elevation does not necessitate a need for non-DOT lights, I live at 7000' in Colorado.
That chance of getting pulled over using them on the Colorado roads is high. I know quite a few that have LED light bars and have been pulled over while using them.
Get a set of four dedicated winter tires and be much safer than blinding the person coming at you who is not on winter tires.

Yesterday:

 

“get away with” simply meant the temperature Elites emit compared to let’s say the Max thus being able to melt snow/ice when operating and needed. I am in this thread so as to be as compliant and thoughtful in how I plug and play lights for my safety and others. I am not a light bar/after market LED/blind oncoming traffic guy.

 

This is accurate. With differences in samples and slight component variation in each unit, the range is 0-5% increase for intensity. Overall, it is not a significant difference, the only real difference is the backlight.

Paul

 

We do not recommend aiming any of our products down by 6 degrees. This is only being recommended by our competitor who claims it is necessary to meet photometric compliance at certain points. We do not agree.

Our fog lights (and I would argue most fog lights on the market) should be aimed according to the following instructions, which represents about a 1 degree downward aim.

http://images.diodedynamics.com/doc...series/SS3_Fog_Light_Aiming_Install_Guide.pdf

Paul

 

Ahh, thanks for clarifying that through my I70 winter road trip infused brain!
Colorado MgCl2 crap covered halogen stock headlights and KC G4 fogs:

My KC couldn’t melt/cut the MgCl2 from the lens the way the stock halogens did. The stock halogen fogs would melt the crap.

IIRC the diode does not make much heat at all but the electronics powering it do though are behind the reflector.

 

I think you are confused “cutoff line to be 1degree down ( 0.75D for F, 1D for F3) with beam itself aiming angle

1 degree down only make sense IF fog beam has cutoff line right at the H line at straight aim (assuming SS3 front bezel surface to be perpendicular against the ground )
But SS3 beam is vertically symmetrical. Peak at the H line center and spread upwards few degree

Let’s say SS3 has visible cutoff line, but at straight aim, cutoff line is not at H line, to make that cutoff line to be 0.75D ( Or you can do 1D to be conservative), Entire beam must move 0.75 degree PLUS as much as angle beam spread above H line

SS3 did not show defined enough cutoff criteria, so using method of test point that upper glare limit goes below allowance max, then beam center had to be adjusted to
Pro 6 degree down
Max 4.5 degree down

this goes same for
4Banger HXB need to be aimed 4.5 Degree down
NCS 4 degree down

that makes cutoff / or equivalent ( I call it’s equivalent because SS3 does not have visually referable cutoff line, line where glare amount become below regulation limit) 0.75D

4Banger HXB also does not have visual enough cutoff to me
So to make it SAE F table to be satisfied,
Based on angle adjustment is only way to prevent glare.

if you only aim “beam to be” 1 degree down, large amount of upper spread, even main brighter band will point at directly to oncoming driver.
0.75( or 1 degree down) definition is “ cutoff line to be” down. Not beam.

I show you visual explain in a bit.

 

I realize there may be some confusion in the reference point used - of course, an average consumer cannot aim properly based on an H/V center reference, they need to aim based on the tools they have, which means adjusting with reference to the top cutoff.

Again, I recommend aiming based on the instructions linked above. I appreciate your input, but I think you are complicating this a bit more than necessary, again, for the average user of these products.

Paul

 

LEDs can produce a significant amount of heat. They are significantly more efficient at converting input power to useable light than incandescent/halogen, but they still produce heat. And the harder they are driven, the less and less efficient they become.

Unlike an incandescent bulb where the heat radiates out (relatively) evenly from the filament, the heat from an LED must be pulled away from the diode at its underside. A good thermal pathway is necessary directly from the back side of the chip to the housing, so heat can migrate away from the chip, preventing it from overheating (and then, in the case of white LEDs, burning away the phosphor layer) and burning out the diode.

White LEDs may produce very negligible amounts of near/IR wavelength energy, but most of the heat output we're talking about, especially with lamps filtering white LED light to selective yellow, is light energy being converted to thermal energy by being blocked by the filter/lens. While the high housing temperature undoubtedly contributes some of the tempersture increase that can be detected in the lens, a significant amount of that tempe increase is due to the filtration.

 

Ah, so the 20% increase in power consumption for a max w backlight means more heat in back but not necessarily hotter lens where snow melt matters. Super good point there.

 

The heat to the lens is conductive from the chassis in either case (rather than radiant as with a halogen bulb and lens), so it probably does increase heat to the lens. In the case of the yellow lens (and darker yellow max lens), there is some heat from light filtration as well (?).

 

what are your thoughts about this question?
What if I bought SS3 sport white fogs that come in the 6000k could I swap in the selective yellow lens made for the MAX fog lights? Would the color be a weird greenish/yellowish color?