60+ year old thread.

All this talk of water heaters, I was wondering how many of us oldies (besides me) have gone "tankless" ? I switched about 25 years ago and would never go back to a tanked style --that is if you ONLY go the Gas (natural or propane) type. One will not save much if you can only use electric to power the unit. This may not be true if you have hot water recirculating system in your home - electiic may be feasable for that type of a install. Please understand that a water softener is a MUST for the tankless systems. The US is one of only a few countries in the world that use the "tanked" systems.
EDIT --see my later post on this subject!!

 

Why is a water softener a MUST?

 

You are probably good if you live in an area with soft water (lake-filled) water treatment.

My well water is very hard. I need that zink sacrificial rod to help get rid of the sulfur smell.

 

There is a draw back to most hot water heaters. Here is why you need a water softener to save you from more work.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RFuFBI3r2c

 

Great tips on annual maintenance requirements (descale with vinegar).

"teenagers" oh yes! We had four in the house, and all of them loved long showers. Endless hot water means we'd never get them out of the shower.

It reminds me it's time to drain the big tank and change the anode rod. Ya, I hate plumbing!

 

I will re-phrase - to "highly recommended". Because there are several sensors that are inside the heaters' water flow system that sense "flow (demand), water pressure, water temp (incoming, and outgoing) flame sensors, input air temp sensor, exit air flow sensor (not in the water flow path) .
The sensors that are in the "flow path" can (and will) get corroded with minerals (and other stuff) from your input water. I ran my first heater for about 18-19 years without a softener, and every couple of years I had to ask my son (HVAC expert) to come help me flush the unit. Understand we have naturally softer (than most) water that feeds our home. Our system comes straight out of the Mo. river. Most peoples water supplys are harder than ours. My son said one day "Dad -why dont you get a water softener and it will be easier on the system and him. I replaced my first one 3-4 years back with a "condensing type" (PVC -vented and uses input air from the outside the home. My first unit was still working fine and I sold it for $125.00. Try that with your old used tank-type!
Reason I sold old one -I changed the venting on the heater to the PVC venting to free up my flue for only my wood stove. I have a twin flue (one for gas furnace and the other for my (very seldom used) fireplace. Plus the PVC venting for the newer tankless was much more -"install - friendly" as the exaust temps are drasticly cooler with the condensing type vs the non condensing types
Disadvantages to the tankless- harder and a bit more expensive to install. Also a bit more expensive on the initial purchase of the unit. it can sometimes take a bit of time to get the hot water to where you are asking for it. this is very dependant of the temp of the supply water and the design of your homes plumbing layout. This is where a recirc. system would be ideal. In our 90 y/o home this would be cost prohibitive. I see where a recirc system CAN be added in some older homes. For us a bit of wasted water is ok -we feel.
Be forwarned!! most Plumbers will bad-mouth the tankless systems. Reasons??-- Guessing here 1. -tanked heater installs are big and easy money-makers for plumbers and 2. many plumbers have no experience/knowledge of the tankless systems.
The market is starting to change in the US as energy is getting costlier every year. Rheem, a BIG name in plumbing is now selling them.
My first unit was a Takagi and my present unit is an Electrolux. I got the Electrolux at a very substantial discount (65% off) when they stopped making them as they (Electrolux) was acquiring ownership of GE appliances. I would have gotten another Tacagi, but the discount on the electrolux was too good to deny.
There are several great manufacturers of these units, so you can compare shop.
I just got tired of thinking -why the hell do I need 40-50 gallons of water heated 24 hours a day when most of the time there was no one using it?
Sorry for the detailed answer -hope this helps

Edit: I stand corrected Electrolux DID NOT acquire GE appliance div -- they "tried to, but were not permitted to by the Federal trade Comm. Haier acquired GE appliance div. and still owns them today

 

So this sounds a lot like the recent discussion of sound bars.

You buy some kind of expensive new technology... and the purchase necessitates further purchases and a learning curve and in the end more complication and IF there is any improvement the improvement is measured in degrees which are only a small percentage of improvement for the expense involved.

In the meantime I have a system that is simple and easy to replace, stores water in case of emergency, and I haven't had to touch it as long as I've owned the house.

And besides that... I really don't like soft water. It tastes like **** and I can't tell when the shampoo is rinsed out of my hair.

I really don't get it. I don't mean to be a downer, but damn. Almost anything I hear about that is supposed to be an improvement turns out to be a time waster and a continuous money drain. I just can't get there from here.

EDIT: I just had add this. We just had another new high priced LED bulb go out in the kitchen. We've been keeping track of the life we are getting out of these so-called "long life" bulbs and so far I haven't noticed any difference from the old incandescents... except they cost a lot more.

 

This is a great video on the tankless "advan/disadvan". I would disagree on one thing -- for many of us on this 60+ thread, the homes' residents are many times only 2 people (most of the time) -so I feel the tankless CAN be a saver. We put in our first T-less after we bacme "empty-nesters" so I think we are saving some bucks.
I was surprised the video did not bring up the extra install cost as the plumbing is a bit more complex.

 

I feel the same as you about many things (sound bars included, although I have one on our smaller kitchen tv).
However this is one thing I think IS an improvement. We had one of these "things on the wall" in our apartment in Okinawa in 1971.
Through the years I always thought about them , but did not get serious untill we gat a whirlpool tub that needed 70 gallons of water to function. this was my underlying reason to get our first tankless.
I may be wrong, but I think this technology will become more mainstream as time goes by and energy cost go up

 

Yeah, I watched the video talking about the things no one tells you about tankless, and the only reason I saw in getting one is that I could take longer showers... but they addressed that and how it could turn out that the long showers reduce the savings in heating the water only once. And there again... a whirlpool is just another thing I don't need. The neighbor just up the street got a big hot tub several years ago and I saw it hauled off a couple of weeks ago... and they never used it unless it was so late at night that no one saw them. And they are getting a new one and couldn't wait to tell me and everyone else. I mean, I've priced those things in the course of being curious and they aren't cheap. I'll bet they paid $500 a soak for the use they got out of their old tub and I'll bet the new one will be more expensive than that. Getting soaked takes on a whole new meaning when speaking of hot tubs.

And I'm sure you are right that these things will replace the older units and eventually you won't be able to buy a tank. Not sure that's a good thing.

 

It remind me of my boss at work, keeps reminding his subordinates that "change is good", and many changes he demanded become money pit. Fortunately, the company have been supported by public contributors.

 

Our whirlpool was a indoor bath with the whirlpool built in. Notice I said -"was" we replaced it on a remodel becaus it was too deep and tough to get in and out of -for us old farts

 

I've been thinking about putting our washer and dryer in our existing bathroom and turning the laundry room into another bathroom. There's room in the existing bath with a little creative jostling, and we'd have a large walk-in shower in the new bath.

Probably the biggest reason is to have something interesting to do.

 

I've had a tankless water heater in my home for 13 years (and a tank water heater for the kitchen/utility room side). Runs off of propane and works great!! A water softener is a good idea ..... didn't have one the first few years and had to "flush" the tankless with vinegar every six months to clear out the buildup from the hard water we have.

Tex

 

I think the water in the place I used to live was measured on the Rockwell scale. It was much too hard for practical use of a tankless water heater. They might be ok for places with significantly softer water, but not for me.

 

Another blood donation in the books. Power Red, baby!!

 

Holy Cow! I will never post about my hot water heater issues again!!!!!!

 

Down here the rescue is always telling folks to leave the fawns ALONE!!! Don't feed them, don't touch them!!. If they truly need help, then take to the rescue. They lose so many babies due to folks "trying to help them" They do return them to the wild unless they are injured and will never be fully healed.

evening boys

 

@Oldie2007
Are you sure you don’t want to hear my hot water heater stories?

 

Good morning fellow Porchatonians!!

Running a water softener here is an absolute must given the hardness of our well water and that we heat the house with radiant heat.