Home Improvement Today?

Tankless doesn't take up much space though and my garage couldn't fit a mouse fart at this point. The downside was the extra cost to run a larger gas line (1 inch I think) and pull a permit. I like the concept of the heat pump and the potential savings, but I'll definitely do tankless again on the next house when I move.

 

heat pump water heaters are awesome , would definitely do that if I built again

 

Yeah, every house is different. My house was plumbed by an idiot and has a hot water circulation pump. The most commonly used faucets, kitchen and bathroom, are at the end of a very long loop. In my house if you want hot water in any reasonable amount of time you have to run that pump, which means a tankless WH isn't in the cards for me.

 

Most newer tankless heaters have built in re-circ pumps.

https://www.rinnai.us/residential/tankless-water-heaters/recirculation-accessories

 

A circulation pump that works on demand helps solve my one gripe with tankless and short use flow times (ie washing dishes/filling a HF dishwasher or HF washing machine)

 

I did not know that, but when I think about it, it does make sense. My recirculation pump makes the water heater cycle on and off all day long. I don't know if it's code or the builder but regardless I rather have a traditionally plumbed house and no pump.

Tell me about this on demand pump. I've got a hacked home automation solution, but it leaves a lot to be desired.

 

It's code in CA since 2018 and the adoption of Title 24. Title 24 is a broad all encompassing energy code. Most of what's in it sucks but that's an entirely different discussion. it did amend the plumbing code to say that if the HW run is 50ft from the source is must have a re-circ pump.

 

I'm thinking about making the swap this spring. The state gives a $750 rebate if a licensed plumber installs it. Our facilities manager at work happens to be a licensed plumber and charges me $50/hr for side work so I'll probably get him to do it.

I think my conventional electric water heater is the number one contributor to our electric bill. I figure it might eliminate or cut down the need for a dehumidifier in the basement too.

 

I'm not in CA, but if the plumber wasn't an idiot the kitchen/bathroom lines would be about 10 feet. With the re-circ pump it's closer to 60 feet.

Here's a picture of his work. I can say he did keep his PEX costs down by using every 2 inch scrap he could find. /sarcasm

 

Except that the fittings and ring cost went beyond what an extra 5' section of pipe cost...

 

with traditional hot water tanks in our builds that have a long run to a fixture we use a Grundfos Smart pump on a recirc line that uses a thermocouple to sense the difference in temperature between the send and return of the recirc loop and runs the pump automatically anytime the return side is 2 degrees C less than the send side . We always insulate our hot lines with pipe insulation as well whether they run in exterior or interior walls to minimize heat loss on its way to the fixture

 

if that is still all open why don't you just replumb it ?

 

I'd prefer to hear a review on heat pump water heaters from someone in a cold climate before going that route. One a of the propane/natural gas Rinnai tankless systems with a recirculating pump built in looks ideal to me for the next house.

 

Instead of the pump running 24 hours a day (as some do) you trigger the pump just before need say with a motion sensor in a bathroom for a kitchen I would probably go with a voice command (ie Alexa, run Kitchen Prep) that would pulse the pump for 1 to 2 minutes every 5 to 10 minutes (this would be for my current tank system, tankless is not an option for me to switch to). I hope next gen dishwashers and washing machines will have a pre call to the pump so the water is hot just as the machine is ready for it, but some math would let one figure run schedules for them if not

 

I know nothing about code, but is it really okay to run piping directly above a breaker panel like that?

 

The Sanco ones with the outdoor unit work down to -20F

the other style harvests energy from inside air so no outdoor unit to be effected by temperature

 

there's nothing that says water lines can't be run directly next to electric lines. code specifically deals with customer-accessed receptacles and the like.

now it being a good idea is an entirely different story...

i do have some concerns that the electrical panel is not meeting the 3' radius of working clearance given where the water tank lines drop down though.

 

The man did love his fittings. The whole house looks like that.

That's the before picture. I redid that part when I installed a whole house water filter and softening system. If I ever finish the basement the re-circ will get sorted before the sheetrock goes up. For now it's just one of those things.

"Alexa turn on the hot water" That triggers a smart plug and the re-circ pump runs for one minute. It's just OK because you have to remember to say that before you need the hot water. An occupancy sensor would be better, but when I setup the Alexa it couldn't do that. Probably the best solution would be to re-plumb the hot water and get rid of the pump altogether.

lol - The water softener and filter were installed in the height of the covid shutdown and getting PEX parts was difficult, so they are literally in front of the electrical panel, but you can still reach the breakers. Since I'm the plumber and the electrician I'll have to have a good talk with myself about breaking code.

 

'alexa turn on the hot water' triggers me...

i don't like having to talk to other people, so i definitely don't need to start talking to my house!

 

I installed my electric water heater April '22 and PEX fittings were slim then! I had everything I needed except for one 3/4 tee. No Lowe's in my area had them. I unfortunately had to use one Sharkbite tee. Since then every time I go to Lowe's or Home Depot I'll pick up random PEX fittings as I do plan on re-piping my entire house eventually.