The LED SAE J583 Fog Pod & Fog Light Review

Here is visual test points/ required illuminance for idea
No leak above H line is general target, Cover up to 60 degree to each side ( side specific, image below is RH table)
**Sample is 4B NCS wide angled 30 degree outward

 

Do you by chance have the mounting position requirements? I found height, but I would assume it would be behind the headlights/foglights and on the side of the vehicle.

Sorry for adding to this slight derail of the thread here. haha

 

I do not have copy of document, my information is limited to that photometric table for now.

 

DD confirmed just about everything in this quote via an email response. They do offer an option to user swap the outer lenses on the 30” bar to fog pattern. But they only offer a single input so you’re still stuck with the overall high intensity that shouldn’t be used on road.

I’ve been playing with my existing DD fogs and the first chance I get to try them in said difficult spots, I’ll report back. Who knows, I may already have an installed solution.

 

As soon as you make one for the 05-11 Tacoma, you will have an instant sale from me.

 

If wanting a 6” light at fog light, Rigid makes them with their SR-Series Pros:
https://www.rigidindustries.com/sr-...lective-yellow-surface-mount-pair-906704.html

 

Output pics shared by @Baja Designs of the new Squadron SAE lamps. Much better cut offs using the projector style optics, the pattern appears very forward facing similar to the Morimotos.

 

Looks well controlled cutoff!

 

Are these unreleased SAE fogs? PnP? Or just new squadron pods

 

Those are the new not-yet-released SAE fogs due out in mid-late January (IIRC).

 

Rigid 360 Dual Color SAE Fogs



Rigid's dual color 360s are the first SAE compliant fog capable of switching output colors. Unlike many current gimmicky replacement LEDs on the market that poorly attempt this, Rigid's fogs have proper dedicated optics for each color, rather than trying to share an optic with multiple colors. The coloring when off is far more subtle than the marketing photos show, white output is on top and selective yellow output on bottom. Both colors can be run simultaneously for maximum output at a combined 4000k.

Both colors at once. The double lens design of the 360's seems to always get condensation on the inside, which burns off and vents out after a while.


The updated 360s now have a single larger beam band where the upper and lower emitters focus into the same area rather than the dual stacked beams found in the earlier 360 generation (comparison photo later in post). The yellow banding is noticeable in person, but it is amplified in the camera images. 4000k combined output. Rigid SAE fogs have always had outstanding cut offs, better than TIR optics. The new fogs are still SAE J583 F, not the more modern F3.


Part of the update was a big power bump, now spec'd at 40w, exceeding that of the SS3 Max. Except it doesn't.

Initial power at 67 ambient, 37.8w.


Within only minutes power starts to rapidly drop. I let these go a little longer, 40 minutes because the power just kept falling. Somewhat stable power, 22.5w, which is much lower than the previous generation 360s.


The previous Gen 360s drew 2.25A stable output, vs 1.63 in the new version despite being rated for significantly higher power than the outgoing fogs.

Thermal power rollback seems flawed. If the old lamps could support the thermals of 2.25A, logically it would seem the new ones using the same body for cooling should support similar stable power levels.

360 both yellow + white combined 4000k vs DD Sport 4000k


The DD 4000k Sports (selective yellow with clear lens swap) are 55% higher in output intensity than the Rigid dual 360s running both emitter sets.

Previous Gen white 360 output


The outgoing Rigid white 360s are 37% higher in output intensity than the new lamps while the outgoing lamps also provide a larger pattern area.

While the lamp itself runs very warm, the dual layer lens design with an air pocket in-between on the 360 significantly insulates the outer lens from heat. The lens runs +50 over ambient, which is similar to the DD Sports. Fogs like the selective yellow Max and Morimoto HXB run 100+ degrees over ambient. I would not recommend these for snow use.


Looking at single color performance, selective yellow.


The yellow color is actually improved over the previous 360 yellow, it is less green than the previous one.


New dual color 360 on top with selective yellow only, outgoing selective yellow 360 on bottom with dual output bands. The output coverage has reduced from 2 door panels down to 1. Pictures always make it look a bit greener than it is, but even so the new lamp clearly has a better yellow, though not on par with the latest from Morimoto NCS or Diode Dynamics Elite.


Solidly in the selective yellow chromaticity window


Initial single color output ~18.8w


Stable single color output ~16.3w


360 dual selective yellow only vs DD Elite selective yellow


DD Elite selective yellows are 2.5x+ the output intensity of the Rigid dual colors set to selective yellow only.

Comparison specs from Gen 1 360s


The old Rigid 360s are 1.76x higher in output intensity of the new dual color 360s set to selective yellow only while also providing a larger dual stage gradient compared to the new lamps.

White



Again solid cut offs


Rigid 360 dual white only vs DD Elite white


DD Elites are 1.93x higher in output intensity than Rigids 360 dual fogs running white only.



Rigids outgoing 360s are 1.72x higher in output intensity than the new 360 dual fogs running white only.

Dual color is supported via 3 wires instead of the traditional 2. Black wire ground, red wire powers white LEDs and white wire powers yellow LEDs. This is a bit of a conundrum if you are wiring to your existing fog circuit you only have 1 power wire and will be unable to adjust colors. Custom wiring will be required for multi-color support. Rigid provides these lamps without any connectors and only raw leads, you must figure wiring out on your own.



My thoughts
-I applaud Rigid for being the first to have a multi-color SAE fog lamp product, many have been seeking such a product. They continue to have excellent sharp cut offs with minimal light spill.
-Fogs should only be used when the weather is so poor it is difficult to see the roadway, they should not be run as aux lights on the street. In those poor weather conditions selective yellow is vastly superior. There isn't a scenario where it would be beneficial to run white fogs on the street instead of yellow unless maybe using them as an off-road near field 4wheeling lamp but that use case seems pretty narrow and not inline with a fog lamp. So why would you give up half the output capacity when you actually need it for fog use in order to have the ability to run white? I'd speculate the majority of people would run the combined yellow/white on these for max output the majority of the time, and maybe switch to yellow when needed, thus reducing performance when it is most needed. By comparison DD's selective yellow Elites or Sports are significantly higher performing than running the 360 combined white + yellow, while also completely eliminating the short wavelength reflective light that leads to poor performance in bad weather and also costs less than half. I really don't see a use case for the benefits of a dual color fog.

Note the short wavelength spike of reflective light that exists in 4000k output vs the selective yellow, in this case selective yellow Elites.


Even though the less expensive DD selective yellow Elites are substantially higher in output intensity.


-These pods have less than ideal thermal management. The thermal roll back is to conservative and fails to match the power performance of the previous generation of pods, resulting in lower stable power draw significantly reducing output despite their new overlapping pattern and big power bump.

In my opinion, if I was to design a dual color fog, I'd up the power of both the yellow and white to peak what the thermals could handle and design it so you couldn't run both at the same time. There isn't a need for 3 colors of lights. Give me all the power in white or yellow if going this route. We don't need white, yellow and warm white. People will chose what is highest performing the majority of the time, or what is weather appropriate. So with this design people will likely always run warm white for highest output unless needing selective yellow, which will cause reduced output. If you designed the pod to be thermally consumed by white or yellow on their own without the ability to run both, you wouldn't have the trade off of losing output by switching to yellow and would always be running at the highest performance level without making significant sacrifices for dual color. The wiring of multicolor is inherently problematic if powering the yellow and white separately. Instead, I'd likely make it an on/off/on to switch between the 2 colors. This would allow simple connection to the OEM fog circuits and no fancy wiring. By only allowing 2 colors and not 3, the you'd have to click the fog button at most 3x to get to the desired color. If allowing 3 colors, that technique would require 5x button presses at most to get to the desired color. But again, fogs are for use in poor weather where selective yellow is ideal over LED white. Dedicated selective yellow fogs are plug and play on stock fog wiring and one button press to get the maximum performance for poor weather.

 

I’m about to order a 1 set of SS3 Max and 1 set of SS3 Pros for ditch lights and to replace my OEM LED fogs.

Would you put the SS3 Max in the fog or ditch light position?

 

Fog - absolutely.

 

saw this and thought it might be an option for your desire
https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/recessed-side-lights.788609/#post-28228796

 

Rigid 360 Pros



Rigid's new 360 Pros featuring a 30%+ power bump to 40w (greater than the Max) and consolidated beam pattern over the standard 360s.

The standard 360 pattern had the dual stacked pattern gradient where upper and lower emitter output created distinctly different output regions that combined was about 2 panels tall


The 360 Pros have the upper and lower emitter output overlap and consolidate into a single smaller band at roughly ~1.25 panels tall. The tall dual band of the standard 360 is unnecessary in a fog and combining the output into a single region should drive higher output numbers. The new pattern like the old has excellent cut offs.


These output photos make the light seem greener than it is really, it is far more yellow in person. New 360 Pro top vs the standard 360 bottom, difficult to tell in the photo of the but the new lamps have a just slightly better yellow. The lamps have the same projection width, the difference in the photo is due to the new lamp being positioned further left on the rack.


While the new Pro lamps are significantly higher power, the thermal management is not up to the task.
360 Pro left at 38.8w vs standard 360 right at 29w, initial power draw.


34 min run time in 63 degrees F ambient
360 Pro left at 23.7w vs standard 360 right at 28.3w, stable power draw.


The Pro lamps start loosing power almost immediately and power goes into power free-fall whereas the standard lamps hold fast at initial power. The new 360 Pros suffer a staggering 39% power loss at stable vs the standard 360s 2.4% power loss at stable. Aka the 360 Pros suffer a crippling 16x+ greater power loss to stable than the standard 360s. The thermal management is flawed. The pods have the same heat sink (the pod body) and should be able to maintain the same power throughput stable at minimum. To have a higher power product based on the same platform come in at significantly lower stable power is disappointing.

Standard 360s


360 Pros


Selective yellow 360 standard at 246 lux vs 360 Pro at 200 lux. Despite higher rated power (but lower actual stable) and combined beams, the Pro lamps suffer a 23% intensity loss vs the standard 360s. Not only do the standard lamps provide higher intensity output over the Pros, they also cover a much larger pattern area with a dual stage gradient and have more stable output.

Stable lens temp of 119 F in 63 F ambient, meaning +56 F degrees on the lens. That will be insufficient to melt snow in cold environments. The Max and 4banger HXB run +100 F over ambient on the lens. The dual lens design of the 360 significantly reduces heat transfer to the outer surface and is not recommended for snow environments.


360 Pro CIE plot


360 Pro Chromaticity window plot


Falls in the compliant selective yellow chromaticity window. These measurements were taken from production lamps purchased by myself and purchased by @Jev425.

White


Sharp cut offs with great pattern control


Standard 360 white at 331 lux


Pro 360 white at 295 lux


White standard 331 lux vs Pro 295 lux. The Pro lamps suffer an 11% output loss vs the standard 360s that also have a larger dual gradient output pattern.

What is really difficult for these 360s is the high $500 price tag for the performance level delivered. The $500 range puts it up against the SS3 Max.


While Rigids optics provide better cut offs than TIRs, against the Max with HXB emitters and highly efficient TIR optics there is no contest for output intensity. The Max is ~2.4x higher in output intensity for roughly the same price.

$500 Rigid 360 Pros vs $200 Diode Dynamics Sports


The DD sports are 28% higher in output intensity than the 360 Pros while costing 60% less. The 360s Pros are not competitive.

The 360 Pros are a disappointing product update. Power is down (stable) despite being spec'd as up. Output rapidly fades after initial turn on as poor thermals roll back output too early. Stable output intensity is down despite the pattern area now being smaller. If looking at the 360s, the standard 360 fogs are better performers and a better buy than the Pros though the DD SS3 Sports will get you even better performance at a fraction of the price.

Special thanks to @Jev425 for lending his 360 Pros for this review.

 

I’ve considered cutting into this area. I’m not a big fan of it, but it may be an option.

 

I made another video focused on OE-style options. I know I missed some... suggestions welcome for the next comparison vid!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CbhXqtzHQE

 

If you are putting the Jeep JW Speaker stuff in the mix, maybe the OEM Jeep 4" reflector LED fogs? (<- It would have been more helpful if this post showed the width.) Those Ford LED fogs have a crazy wide pattern (I've not seen one that wide) but such low intensity as a result, curious what those designers were thinking.

Another interesting one for pattern that is very different and does mount in a Tacoma, is the OEM Subaru Legacy fogs with their ditch spotter pattern.

 

Does anyone have pictures of what the yellow Diode Dynamic Elites look like mounted on the truck? (fully off, no backlight, not powered on). I can't find a single picture on the internet! I'd like to see what they look like turned off from far enough back that you can see the front end of the truck.

Thx