Battery Relocation

I keep hearing that, but 4 years later, still fine. There is a vent in the back of the cab from factory behind those seats anyway if anybody was really worried about it

 

That’s good to hear; I really like the idea of removing 70lbs from the fender and relocating to the middle of the truck.
My solar controller is in the cab too, so even better.
Welding an off the shelf into the truck seems pretty straightforward; I bet I could drill and bolt too.

Do you remember what gauge wire you used, where you sourced it, etc?
Same for the terminals.

 

I think I used 1/0 welding cable. Got it from a local shop

 

Parts came in, hopefully I can relocate mine this weekend.

 

Was able to fit a group 27F battery in the rear cubby (cut out the plastic floor and back, left the carpet intact).

Seems fine so far!

 

And this relocation moved 60lbs off the front axles to the rear.

 

didn’t JDfab create a relocate that entails a larger compartment being put in the factory bed

not sure when it will list on the website

 

Yep! They have some info on IG.
Ultimately I’d like to get rid of the bed, so hopefully this will be my permanent solution.

 

I saw the idea of relocating a battery or batteries to the space under the bed that the spare tire comes installed in by default mentioned in a different thread or forum.

Would like to learn more of anyone that did this, especially with a lithium, solar, alternator recharging combo controller setup.

 

I've been looking at the JD Fab rear bedside compartment battery relo box. Looks like a good design, a bit on the $$ but that's what it is for US-made low-volume custom parts. It's not like there's a large market for such a product, they might sell only a thousand or two of them over entire product cycle.

My question is about the durability of lithium-ion (LifePo4) batteries, generally, in off-road conditions. Are they as mechanically strong & vibration resistant as good-quality sealed lead AGM batteries?

 

I mean,

1. folks run them in the truck regardless
2. Only one way to find out
3. You could potentially cushion it somehow if you want
4. Shock to the truck is also gonna depend on the quality of your suspension and use case of the truck (pre running vs crawling)

many cars ride worse than an upgraded suspension Tacoma. They have various battery types in various locations. Under seat under hood trunk you name it.

drawback of the hood is stress on the metal especially if second battery. Weight In a bad unbalanced place. And exposure to heat causing premature wear.

one way JD wins with products is they’re not a competitor. They don’t have competition. They’re the only one who stepped up to make X product at all.

 

Right right, I'd just rather hear from folks who dropped half a grand & had problems with their lithium-ions vibrating to bits, (or not,) rather than be the test rabbit for that.

Yes, this is The Way. The right thickness of the right density of foamy material will solve any potential issue.

F'sho, I'm more of a prerunner, though not in the desert, rather up on mountain forest road ridges. A ton of medium-amplitude continuous vibration. I recently had one of the hand-wheel mounting nuts on my hi-lift mount loosen and fall off entirely at-speed. In my case because the hi-lift was mounted longitudinally along one of the long rails of my full-size tradesmans lumber rack, it swung down in a pivot arc & dented the rear fender flare. Luckily I noticed within 10-15 seconds and was able to backtrack & quickly find the dropped mounting nut lying on the road.

Yes, but not too many have Group-form-factor lithium-ion primary starter batteries. I don't think EVs/hybrids with battery packs are comparable because AFAIK those large packs are almost always composed of 100s to 1000's of small 18650-size cylindrical cells, which are going to be inherently more vibe & impact resistant due to their small, tight construction w/ relatively low internal inertial mass.

 

Yee, I've read all about that, the basic weakness of the stock battery mounting location. The sheet metal under it. Also I wouldn't want to concentrate even more weight there unbalancing the front suspension.

I might drop the coin on the JD solution as it is an excellent use of space & also helps weight balance.

Although then you're adding cost & considerable space needed to run huge battery cables back up to the front.

 

This seems like a neat solution/idea, to fit a dual battery setup, but also very expensive. Already at $1,020 before shipping, install effort/labor cost, the batteries, wiring, other parts i was confused about what they were including at first thought the kit might have included a box for both sides, which i do not think it does each side is separate, apparently? ….

 

It's about $500 a box -- i.e. per side. Hence my original remark about the exorbitant cost.

If these were manufactured in China in quantities of ?? maybe 25,000 to 50,000 units they could probably be sold for $160 each, at a guess. But that's just not how it goes. Just how many 2nd & 3rd gen Tacoma owners make up the target market for these bespoke bedside battery boxes? IDK but I'd guess not more than a few thousand, and of that target market -- those of us who would seriously consider it -- maybe only ?? 25% of them will actually buy one.

At $500 a unit, if they sell 100 units ($50K,) maybe they've broken even on development costs? And then maybe they sell 500-1000 more (ever, i.e. until the 2nd/3rd gen Taco market dwindles down due to attrition), that's a decent chunk of gross receipts.

 

At first it was not displaying the product menu correctly, and I thought $450 was reasonable for both based on the plural "boxes" in the title. You also lose the notches to fit 2*. 2x4s. I wonder how long an uglier but safe and functional DIY similar solution would take to do.

What would you plan to do to make everything work together, electronically, or were you only considering doing a single battery relocation? The only ready-made customish vehicle specific dual battery kit product I came across was the genesis.. $700 https://offroadalliance.com/Genesis-16-Tacoma-Dual-Battery-Kit-Gen-3--172TTDBKG3

 

I hadn't gotten as far as electrical planning yet.

Looking at price of $1100 for both sides has me thinking, strongly: I could put $1100 into a decent plasma cutter setup. I already have a decent MIG welder. With plasma + MIG I might be able to fab up something half-decent in 5 or 6 hours.

Re: safe, yes, something that copies their frame-tied lower support bar. And there's no need for fancy hinges and certainly not for a lock -- just some large hex bolts or similar, holding a flat plate cover, would do fine. (Esp. in my case, I have a full topper w/ locking ambulance-type doors etc. already.)

 

@GilbertOz
I was just looking around where this battery location would go, and had a thought, not sure if anything would make it a bad idea
instead of cutting a large opening in the plastic bed, why not just make some brackets and a tray to interface with the brackets and just insert/lift the battery or batteries in from underneath, in approximately the same location?
Anything else that should be considered, should a battery have a box or protection around it… it doesn’t really under the front hood, and cautionary instruction comments on AGM mention ventilation from the little i remember

obviously one would have to attach wire the leads before inserting this battery holding tray/protector/bracket assembly …

 

That's an interesting idea. I didn't realize you have to cut the plastic bed side to install the JD Fab box/mount. Not sure how much cutting has to be done but no doubt it weakens the plastic bed side somewhat.

Before even launching into any of the following safety discussions it's worth noting that the JD Fab solution doesn't appear to take any special measures as far as either flammable gas accumulation or full-on battery fire. A fire is unlikely but certainly possible w/ certain low-quality or high-risk Lithium-ion battery manufacturers / chemistries.

Re: battery safety / flammable gases:
I believe the only flammable gas that lead-acid batteries emit is hydrogen, particularly in the last stages of charging and/or over-charging. Here's a detailed calculation of H2 evolution quantities & rates that is for 6V 100AH battery, not the same as a 12V 60AH auto battery but probably in the same general class. It concludes that, "..to remove it [hydrogen gas] as fast as it is produced then the area needs to be evacuated by at least that amount (1.33 ft^3 per hour or 1.33/60 min = 0.022 standard cubic feet per minute). For a 100 AH 6V 0.022 SCFM gassing."

For comparison, a single human breath inhalation is about 0.018 cubic feet. So that looks like a pretty modest amount of H2 that would probably adequately self-disperse even in completely still air. To mitigate risk further I would consider drilling a series of maybe (10) x 3/16" diam ventilation holes spaced ~1.5" O.C. at the highest-practicable area of the inner plastic bedside, above the battery location.** The ultimate risk reduction would be to drill those holes in the outside metal body/upper wheel well to vent direct to the atmosphere but that might look a bit funny & need special attention to avoid rusting.

**Unless the rear of the truck is enclosed / sealed with a camper shell, and particularly not if that is going to be a dwelling/sleeping place for people or animals.

Re: battery safety / fire:
As far as locations on the vehicle, the passenger side far rear corner is probably one of the safest areas to put a battery. Much better to have a battery fire there than in the engine bay or inside the passenger cabin. It's far enough away from the fuel tank, fuel lines, etc to probably not be an immediate risk to fuel supplies. If it burns for very long there could be an issue with it melting & possibly igniting the composite bed liner. Probably best mitigated by lining the outside of the bed liner w/ fire-resistant materials. Even on the drivers side, it's still a reasonable distance from the fuel lines/gas tank to where a rear mount battery would go. Certainly farther than the fuel lines in the main engine bay at front.

There are "fire blocking" polyurethane foams that go on quick and are super durable but all the flame tests I've seen on youtube are not impressive. They will burn & lose volume quickly when exposed to continuous flame. I'd rather go with a design that is intended to survive the full heating cycle of a complete battery burn if possible, using a fireproof and highly heat-resistant material based on fiberglass or similar. Maybe this could be glued in place w/ the metallic side facing outwards to protect the glass fiber from dirt/mud etc.

Going that far probably a bit of overkill, with a good-quality battery & normal attention to detail in physical mounting, wiring, fusing, charging profiles, and battery maintenance, the battery isn't likely to catch fire & burn. But it's worth keeping in mind and planning for. For example, I would go with steel (not aluminum) for all structural/load-bearing components of the mount, due to steel's far higher softening/melting temperatures. (Not to mention superior fatigue strength, on a per-volume basis, i.e. equivalent gauge-thickness of metal.)

Re: battery safety / charging temperature

This mainly applies to lithium-ion chemistries which cannot be charged at or below freezing (~35ºF / 0ºC .) A strong consideration for anyone who lives or recreates in a cold climate. Li-ion is certainly popular, esp. for "house" batteries and would be the chemistry I would most likely choose due to weight, power density, & charge-cycle durability.

It'd be necessary to consider whatever space / form factor & wiring is needed for a battery-warmer to keep a lithium-type battery above freezing. Or, buy a winterized lithium battery w/ built-in warmer. Keeping anything warm in very cold climates takes a lot of energy unless a lot of insulation is added. Insulating heavily will go a long way, but then you have the issue of needing good airflow for cooling in hot environments and/or high rates of charge or discharge.

 

You sound bit more knowledgeable than I am, on some of the technical bits, I'm surprised you didn't realize the amount of cutting that must be needed!

I would like to install a second battery too, but instead of bravely figuring it all out, I hoped someone else would figure out all the technical considerations and bravely prove the concept before me, so I can copy their ideas.

I’m lost with all the possibilities … and just have a very basic goals of, never having a dead battery after parked for extended time, running dash cameras and would be nice to be able to leave lights and playing music with truck off without worrying about not being able to start … no fancy winches or overlanding accessories for me

oh the choices …
- Two batteries in the hidden spaces next to the bed, but one sidemay be taken by factory 12V and 120V outlets
- using bed space
- using interior space near rear seats
- one battery in the hidden space next to the bed, maintain one in original location
- 2 AGMs
- 1 Lithium, such as Dakota lithium.
- 1Pb original, 1 lithium
1 Pb, 1 lithium
Etc.

how bad is the battery weight placement in affecting things really? Relative to the weight of everything else doesn’t seem like a lot…
I’m about to add a 30 lb front hitch receiver too …

last thought is, if i had time to work on this and had to decide now, i might pick the genesis controller, and monitoring system if it’s reliable ( no idea how great, or bad type of lemony these things are) , and 2 AGMs, since they are cheaper and that’s what it works with, and just run one AGM up front, one in a custom rear hidden holder in the back space void next to the bed…

or just swap in a lithium for the original battery, if nothing else needs to be changed. I was off put by wondering about alternator compatiblity and related potential issues that i don’t understand so well.

I also want to setup a solar battery charge maintaining system

just carrying a spare battery and a dead battery starter tool may be the simplest/least costly way to go …