Audio experts, Feedback on my system plan

Ok audio experts,
There are lots of threads about various upgrades and opinions, but I’m looking for insight and feedback about this specific list of audio components working together.

Vehicle - 2022 Tacoma TRD Off-road

Head unit - Stock, non JBL
Front - Kicker KS 6x9’s
Front tweeter - Subaru kicker tweeters
Rear - Kicker KS 6 3/4
Sub - JL Steathbox 10" 10TW3-D4
4 way amp - Kicker key 200.4
Sub amp - Kicker key 500.1

As far as my music tastes, I listen to everything, so prefer a well rounded system.

I plan to buy from Crutchfield.

 

You do know the “Subaru tweeter” is a KS series tweeter? If you go with a co-axial 6x9 and a separate tweeter up front, plus what’s in the rear, that’s 6 tweeters and 4 midbass. Get the KS series 6x9 components with the 2 3/4” mid/tweeter. That setup comes with mounting brackets for Toyotas. (if you’re set on Kicker KS)

 

I did not know that, so thank you. Constructive feedback

I’m not ‘set’ on Kicker KS, I’m open to what speakers might pair well with the Kicker Key amps, which I am pretty settled on.

If folks think there is a more suitable set of speakers with that amp and factory head-unit, I’m open to other options.

 

Honestly, speakers are subjective. I, personally, love my Morels’, but they cost more. I had the KS-series 6x9s with tweeter, not mid/tweet. I found them a little “shouty” or treble hit at high volume. That’s why I suggested the mid/tweet KS, should tame the highs. Really though, if you use the DSP in the Key amp, that should tame “most” trouble areas for you.

 

i would really recommend a component speaker up front instead of the separate units you're currently looking at. any component speaker is going to have a better quality crossover than the subaru tweeters have, which will lead to a better overall sound.

 

I completely agree, speaker sound really is subjective, and brands change.

I’ve been out of car audio stuff for twenty years, but in my day worked at Al and Ed’s Autosound and could buy any manufacturer equipment I wanted for manufacturers cost.

Manufacturers loved sales reps running their equipment. It was always a customers first few questions, ‘what’s the best, ‘what do you run in your car….

I was hoping technology had evolved past requiring components and separate crossovers for great sound at moderate volume.

The Kicker key seems like an absolute bargain for its self adjusting DSP. Doesn’t put out huge power though and I want to pair it to a comparable speakers system.

 

Damn guys, Morel has some baller stuff!

I googled high end Morel’s and you can spend $5k on a single set of 6.5 components!

The system I was piecing together would total about 2k for everything. I figure the end result should still sound better that Taco Tunes or some of the other plug and play build kits for a similar price.

I intentionally didn’t order the Tacoma with the JBL system because I’ve always been unhappy with premium factory systems and limited by the upgrade options.

I have a factory Bose system in my 911 and an Infinity in my Ram, but both vehicles were bought used though so audio was not my primary concern. The Bose is ok enough (impressive for a 20yo system) but I’ve always been particularly disappointed with the dodge Infinity system. It’s just my tow vehicle though.

Tacoma is my daily driver. Would like to enjoy it more.

 

Speakers are indeed subjective. I look back over my 30+ years of installing, and I see I didn’t know sh*t!! Matter of fact, I didn’t even know what sound I like. Turns out, it’s “laid back”. So, what do you like for sound? There’s plenty of us here who will spend your money for you. Only thing I can think of, in your case, either run a component set with crossover, or use the DSP in the Key for all it’s worth. Go active! I’m absolutely no expert in going active, but I get the basics. Using 1 channel each for each woofer and tweeter can really dial in the sound you want.

 

Thanks @ZMan2k2

I’m looking at a set of those https://www.crutchfield.com/p_20648KSS26/Kicker-48KSS269.html Kicker compliment 6x9 complements (48KSS269).

They don’t run an external crossover, but are wired through each other similar to the stock system.

I’m not the guy that can tweak and tune, so really am looking to lean on the Key to handle that for me.

 

Those are what I meant. Basically use a “bass blocker” on the mid. Should be good to go.

 

I think for 2K you will have a good setup there.

My system..bear in mind mine is a regular cab.

Pioneer CD single din..cheap one but I don't care to have a backup cam, nav, etc. Just something that sounds good.

JBL 600x1 mono amp running a MrMarv custom box with 2 MTX 12"s

Megaloud 100x2 amp running Rockford Fosgate separates in the doors..1" tweet, 6x9 mid, passive x-overs.

Sounds fine to me. Key is it plays anything good be it metal, hardcore, rap, top 40......

As an aside..curious if some folk here with more knowledge might know how to repair a CD player?

 

Fair Warning: once you replace the speakers you're going to want a new HU. The stock HU is tuned for the stock speakers replacing the speakers reveals inherent HU limitations.

I went through a "budget" upgrade last summer on my 2015 accesscab, tried the KS and found them lacking settled on these:

https://www.crutchfield.com/p_575T1675S/Rockford-Fosgate-T1675-S.html

The RFs are really good speakers but the crossovers will have to be installed in the cab (too big for the doors) so you'll have to run speakers wire which is very doable w/a "wire worm." The mid bass speakers really have some punch you will not get from the KS and they have a -3db on the tweeters which I think is a requirement for the stock HU - I get the impression the stock HU really boosts the highs.

I had a 50W/150w bridged alpine amp from a previous build. I tried the keyloc and sent it back, almost no improvement on the stock HU. If I were buying an amp today I'd probably go with https://www.crutchfield.com/p_575R2500X4/Rockford-Fosgate-R2-500X4.html because it has the lights to set gain, has 75W but I'm happy with my class AB alpine (but wishing I had more than 50 watts...you will too but have to consider amp draw, etc.).

For a sub I went with: https://www.crutchfield.com/p_20648CF104/Kicker-48CDF104.html - at 150 RMS its no JBL but it sounds greats especially for rock/alternative - just barley fits in the rear floor of my access cab (taking out the rear center console helps but not required) but its a great deal for the money and includes an enclosure (and getting the enclosure right is really important - there's a lot more to subs then just getting an amp and speaker: placement, enclosure - down firing in a prebuilt box is a "no brainier" so that's the route I took).


Everything sounds really, really good and I'm happy but I still have the stock HU and there's no getting around the limitations of the stock HU which becomes very noticeable once you start changing out speakers. It's hard to justify the expense but I've read several places from folks on here who have tried DSPs and LOCs that ultimately found an aftermarket HU is really where it's at for sound quality (please confirm...help me justify $700 on a new HU).

If you want to keep _all_ the steering wheel controls you'll have to get the iDataLink and that adds $240 to the price of any HU (CRUX does not keep phone controls on the 2nd gen steering wheel, 3rd gen even more is lost). Very few HUs have volume knobs but JVC has "gesture" controls for volume so that's where I'm looking.

Very interested to hear from anyone about aftermarket HUs and if the expense is worth the SQ improvement.

Also I found crutchfield customer support to be invaluable.

Good Luck!

 

@ac2ndGenTacoma

I assume this was setup with your 2nd Gen headunit? I do agree any system will eventually be limited by the headunit driving it, but that’s where the Kicker Key seems to shine.

Did you use a Kicker key 200.4 amp and not like it with the 2nd gen head unit, or did you use a Kicker “Keyloc” as you stated?

The keyloc is a line out converter. It may have a processor in it, but I wouldn’t expect much from it.

If it was the Key amp you used and weren’t impressed I would be surprised. I haven’t found a disappointing review yet. The built in Digital Sound Processor (when setup and self tuned properly) seems to work amazing for the price. And it also has built in Led light for gain etc.

Again not sure we’re talking about the same piece of equipment, or at least the same head unit.

I do agree those Rockford components would probably be better. I was hoping to get away from crossover mounting and wiring, but your probably right and I should just accept I need to do that.

 

The Kicker Key does a good job of balancing/correcting the output from the stock HU, and there may be other amps that can do the same. Just follow the procedure.

I started with the Subaru Kicker tweeters and replacement speakers in all doors (I went with JBL GT6 or 7, I forget), no sub. It was OK, but too many tweeters. I don't think a sub would have balanced that out.

I swapped to a Kenwood component speaker setup with mid-tweeters in the dash, and I set the Key up in bi-amp mode to just run the front doors and dash speakers. Bi-amp mode is designed for component setups and has appropriate frequency cutoffs. Rear speakers just run off the HU, just for fill (my dog seems to be fine with that). For me, using the Key to power the rears was just a waste, you can't hear those when driving anyway. This setup has WAY better clarity, volume, and sound stage. Decent bass even without a sub. If you do this, just make sure you run the calibration procedure with ONLY the Key-attached speakers before hooking up the rest of it.

 

I had a key 200 running off the stock head unit, it works great if you take the time to dial it in properly. I have since replaced it with an alpine ra60f and JBL stadiums all around. Still have the Key 500 running a 10" Kicker at 2 ohms.

I would do what tenbeers suggested and run the front components bi amped and run rhe rears off the head unit for fill or unplug them altogether. That's going to be your best sound/stage option without spending a shit ton of money. Mine did everything I needed it to set up that way with the 500 running the sub and it all fit neatly under drivers seat (both amps, junctions, fuses and 8 gauge wiring plus a fuse at the battery. Easy peasy. I should have left it alone as now I have 3 times as much invested and its louder and more clear for sure, but it didn't really need to be. I just can't leave well enough alone. Fuck I just ordered new wheels to replace the perfectly fine wheels I bought last year. I hate this place haha

 

Yes I'm still running the stock HU in a 2015 (entune 2) access cab, I'm only running the front channels through the amp and only really need 2 speakers (and sub) along with the stock headliner speakers. Everything sounds good - some tracks like Santana sound excellent, my main gripe is how the stock deals with high frequencies (contrary to the "bass roll off" conspiracy I think the stock HU handles lows really well, its the highs that are way over represented) Metallica guitar solos for example sound harsh as f#@k.

My experience is that kicker makes good stuff and they do something very few other manufactures do: they answer the phone and the person you talk to will know their stuff, so I really like kicker corporate. The KS speakers are tough and good for the money but you get a better value if you spend a "little" more, most importantly tho you can not reduce the tweeter levels on the KS crossover which is critical when dealing with the stock HU IMHO.

The kicker keyloc does the "signal processing," you download mp3 files and let it do it's thing, it's basically a Key amp w/o the amp - so more then just a LOC. With that said, and you'll read this in other threads, weather your using the kicker key, the expensive JBL version, or a super expensive $1K+ DSP none of these devices are going to fix the issues inherent with the stock HU. I suspect people like the Kicker key amp because any quality amp will provide a vast improvement - it's the amp not the DSP that makes things sound better. Also any decent HU these days includes a DSP and EQ and a dedicated sub RCA out.

It's kind of annoying and difficult to accept but the bottom line is the Tacoma stock stereo is greater then the sum of it's parts because every aspect of the stock stereo is engineered to work together such that if you just replace the speakers (or just replace the HU I suspect but don't know for sure) the remaining parts of the system crumbles. I'd somewhat reluctantly recommend starting with a head unit, becasue that's the main weakness in terms of SQ (but not volume- need an amp for that and amps require better speakers), also the rear channels on the stock head unit are just crappy - again no amount of signal processing will fix the rear channel output. If you want 4 channels you have to replace the HU.

If car manufactures are going to integrate all kinds of features into the HU they really should give the consumer a break and provide a good DAC and RCA line outs so the consumer can do the upgrades without getting pissed or having a mental breakdown.

As it is it's just a fact of life that (like suspension upgrades) what you start with is super reliable but not built for the "extreme enthusiast" and there really is no budget upgrade path option for the Tacoma sound system (which to be fair is decent) - it's all in or nothing - you're going to have to spend $2K -$3K so really factor that in before starting ("cry once" really does apply here). Just doing speakers and an amp (on the front 2 channels) will give you volume and a significant improvement but in my experience you'll end up having to replace the HU to get to the last 100 yards of what you're after.

The good news is that the iDatalink appears to provide a working solution for integrating all the stock features into an aftermarket HU but at a price of $240 and complicating install.

 

speaker tech honestly hasn't changed since the early 1900's. that and there's really no way to materially improve loudspeakers past the fundamental capacitor/coil crossovers, as the speaker fundamentally is still just a coil of wire acting against a magnet with a cone attached to it.

it's why i have never gotten into really exotic cone materials. there's only so much benefit one can derive from cone stiffness.

it's all about what matters to you. i shy away from car audio brands anymore because i can get better quality speakers from elsewhere without all the fake prestige that car audio stuff has--once it's hidden behind the door panel, no one cares what i spent on it!

i run mostly peerless/dayton gear in all my vehicles. none of it i specifically go out of my way to run only those brands, i'll always start a broad search with every brand i can find, then narrow it down to mounting dimensions/features i'm looking for to fit the build, and almost always end up focusing on a dayton or peerless products.

my car runs a dayton ultimax sub, dayton esoteric mids(honestly not worth the price, imo, but perform very well), and peerless ring radiator tweeters--around $550 in total, which is really cheap for 5 total speakers.
my truck will be running a bare minimum of an sb acoustics shallow sub with a css passive radiator, peerless hds nomex mids, and aiyima ring radiators(peerless knockoffs). about the same $550 cost, with some differences because the sub setup costs almost 4 times the ultimax.

both setups are/will be full active with an alpine pdx v9 5 channel amp, with a pioneer 80prs head unit, though the truck will be getting a dayton dsp-408 dsp unit.

with wiring and install hardware, i'm around that same $2k number you're budgeting for, but i'd argue i'm getting much higher quality speakers out of it. i could definitely make do without the head unit or dsp.

back before i started the car build, i went through a few dozen different car audio shops and demo'd every setup they had on display. everything from the basic coaxial setups to the ultra high end hertz mille line, or jl's c7 line. what i found is that they're all really about the same. the c7 woofer doesn't really play any lower than the c2 woofer, and the tweeters all start sounding the same across each brand-- i believe it's a concerted effort to maintain each specific brands identity. after a few weeks of looking at $2k-5k component speakers, i got frustrated on the similarities across the brands different 'options' and blew a few hundred on the car's setup on a whim--$500 is a heck of a lot cheaper than $5k, so even if it was a mistake, it would be a cheaper learning process. i think i did better or equal to those ultra high end setups, and saved a bundle in the process.

you could run the key in full active if the crossover still hangs you up. i prefer full active setups. too many issues and thousands spent in my past with passive crossovers for me to do anything but full active. but passive crossovers are much more simple, and less risky-- full active stands the chance of messing up a setup config and blowing a speaker.

tdlr: yes, it's absolutely worth it. the stock radio drove me nuts.


fair warning, i'm a tinkerer. i started down my audio build to have fun in the process. so i did everything wrong.

i bought a tacoma specifically because the head unit can be replaced. if it wasn't able to, i wouldn't be here. so my plan was always to replace the entire audio system.

but i replaced the head unit first. the oem unit drove me nuts with it's excessive bass at 'neutral' settings. just changing the head unit at this stage really altered the entire sound system from something i dreaded living with to a more neutrally balanced setup.

i would've left it like that until i worked out the details on the rest of the system if it wasn't for those terrible tweeters. i tried rocking out a little and they started crackling. the capacitors are either low quality, and/or lower voltage, and couldn't deal with it--i could've upgraded them, but while they're out, i've got a dozen tweeters just laying around that can be put to use... so the tweeters started getting replaced. but then i was pulling panels, so i might as well upgrade the door speakers as well...

so now i've got my updated speakers all around, as well as a head unit. i'm really quite happy with the system as-is right now, other than the lack of bass and overall volume...

 

We’ll this thread is about to take a hard left turn.

Instead of starting stereo upgrades, I bought another truck this morning. I just couldn’t resist.

 

I've not tried the DSP/LOC prior, but a decent head unit can be found for a reasonable price if you don't want the touchscreen/nav/etc of the OEM. Mine didn't have it in the first place nor did I care anyway.

 

Have to disagree with you here. Speaker lines from different manufacturers certainly have distinct personalities and characteristics, especially the Mille stuff.

Once again, I’m here to shill the JL FiX. For much less than what it costs to replace your factory stereo, it is possible to get excellent sound quality if you install one. If you want to do upgrades to speakers and add amps and subs in your Toyota but are happy with the look and functionality of the factory radio, It’s just what the Toyota factory radio needs to overcome being shitty.