The LED SAE J583 Fog Pod & Fog Light Review

Another benefit to the sharper cut off of the Maxes that I have not seen discussed as much is that the additional glare from the Pros will illuminate more falling snow and produce more "warp speed" effect.

 

Yes. This is what happens with light spill and part of the reason fogs are designed to minimize it.

 

I haven't had that issue with my Pro fogs

 

Me either.

While the cutoff is certainly not as sharp as the Sport or Max, the criticism the SS3 Pro receives in this thread should be taken with a grain of salt. The feedback regarding the less-defined cutoff and inherent aiming difficulty is fair. But in terms of stray light, the Pro is actually about the same as the Max and 4Banger HXB. And for glare, there's still a gigantic difference between using the SS3 Pro Fog compared to a traditional off-road light in the fog position, for example.

It's been repeatedly implied that the Pro cannot be used as a fog due to the amounts of glare. The Pro does have a less defined cutoff than the other variants, but it does not shine excessive glare for on-road use. The "3rd party test" that our competitor did even shows that the SS3 Pro does not produce excess glare.

The Pro's amount of stray light, is actually nearly identical to the Max, and also the Morimoto 4Banger HXB. Cutoff is sharper on Max and HXB, but total stray light is very similar, and they're all within 10-20% of the maximum allowance. So, yes, the SS3 Pro has a less defined cutoff, but it does not actually shine more glare than those other options.

The TIR systems are extremely efficient, but when you push so much light through them, there's some that ends up being stray light. Far, far less stray light than a forward-facing reflector, of course. But if you want minimal stray light, you can either use a lower-power light in general, such as the SS3 Sport or the 4Banger NCS. Or, go to a projector-type system like the DD Elite or the new Baja SAE. The drawback to projector designs is that they're not nearly as efficient, since they just allow you to basically block light from shining into certain areas, rather than attempting to capture all of it. The less stray light you want to tolerate in your design, the less output you get overall. It's a simple tradeoff. This is one reason we offer the "OE style" Elite Series fog. It's a completely different theory of use vs the Stage Series. If you want razor-sharp cutoff with no spill, that's the way to go. The Diode Dynamics Elite Series has about 20% of the stray light of the SS3 Max - but it's also half as much output.

Again, the criticism for the Pro option is totally fair, and it is not the best choice if you're seeking a sharp cutoff. However, if our definition of acceptability is the total stray light per J583 standard, it's acceptable for use. Whether it's acceptable for you personally is a completely different question.

Last comment - when you're talking high-power fogs of any type, which I'd say is anything over 10,000 candela, you'll probably get far more stray light actually bouncing off the road surface. In my experience, that is one benefit of a "shorter" beam pattern, though it has its cons as well.

Paul

 

To be completely fair, I only notice it in very certain snow conditions. Most smaller snowflakes and generic whiteout conditions the perceived effect is negligible. However, it was quite apparent going over southern Colorado passes with big fat (~1 cm) snowflakes. Certainly not what everyone is dealing with, and I am very happy with the Pros in all other inclement conditions.

This is also how I am justifying Max fogs and moving the Pros to 4000k aux high beams to myself.

 

The 4K pros also make great aux high beams in driving pattern

 

Shared in another group, Baja had the following to say on this output photo of their new SAE fogs.


“These photos were taken utilized with our prototype Projector Optics we developed back in October. Our spread has since increased along with a much better smooth blend”

Will be interesting to see output from the production units.

 

Let me aid adding resolution to "glare" subject about Pro.

Pro "scatter" worse than Max? No actually NOT. At after 6.5~7 degree up range from beam center, no difference in spill/scatter level in uncontrolled light leak.
What I have been pointing out about Pro shall not be used for on road fog is due to
1. Difficulty of aiming ( due to lack of visual referable cutoff line)
2. Uneducated/wrongly educated general public's usage of Pro as fog, representing false impression of Pro at wrong aiming.

it's physically difficult to aim, and psychologically, false impression of excessively high aimed beam impression make new user don't want to aim lower
When Pro is aimed to prevent certain angle, it does not cause glare any more than Max, I tested, measured it.
but to achieve this, amount of aiming down is much more than vast majority will comprehend.

Look up DD website, Pro data sheet, 500+Cd range reaches over little over 6 degree line, around 6.3
This data is highly consistent to independent lab observation, and above this 500Cd limit line, no SCATTER

To use Pro as Fog lamp ( to prevent undesired scatter to come back in driver view, and to prevent glare to on coming traffic)
at H line ( vertically 0 degree line) canNOT exceed 585Cd from 10L to 10R zone.

Edge of the blue line shows min 500Cd, I assume 585Cd to be slightly towards beam center, to make that happen, CalCoast aimed lamp 6 degree lower globally to make glare/scatter free aim
Basically, bring aim down enough to make arrow indicated point down to horizontal line ( 0 degree ) or lower. Problem is, our eyes can't detect 585Cd visually. We need instrument and knowledge to measure properly.

At that lowered aim, Pro has any more glare than Max, 4B HXB. But at the same time, beam is aimed so low, very hard to justify benefit of Pro to be used as Fog.
This is the reason, I am generally label pro is not suitable as fog lamp, and suggest max or Sport over Pro.
It's just very difficult to aim. Because Max or Sport can be aimed bit higher than Pro and still not exceed glare definition limit. = more meaningful beam coverage as fog lamp.

I can aim, because I can read IsoCan DD provided, and I also have scan myself. But there is no way for general end-user to visually aim Pro lamp based just on human eye perceivable impression.
Our eyes can't detect such slight gradient difference, then many logic out using subjectively brighter looking impression zone border, believing that's the cutoff line.
Without understanding that kind of aim is way too high photometrically,

And this result in "scatter" impression. Because lamp isn't actually aimed low enough.
Soft transition cutoff is still way above H line and seeing that bounce back in fog, getting impression of it scatters more.

In summery,
As long as Pro is aimed 6 degree or more downward, No, no scatter, it will NOT glare. Scatter impression is coming from numerous end-users who had been using Pro at WRONG aim.
But to do so, you can't visually adjust, using subjective brighter zone beam upper edge is NOT cutoff, can't use as reference. I suggest using phone app, digital level to make 6 degree or more aim down.
If you think 6 degree down aimed beam is too low and don't like it, use Max or Sport Or Elite to be highly refined F3 beam quality. ( Elite is most appropriate beam as fog)
Or Enjoy Pro as offroad wide beam, feel free to enjoy ample volume coverage.

 

Looks awful narrow for a fog pattern to me.

 

To be clear, that is the preproduction photo. According to Baja they have widened the pattern since then. TBD on how much.

 

Just wanted to shout you out Crash for all this testing/knowledge you've bestowed upon us.

I just switched from CaliRaised amber pods back to my OEM H11 factory fogs with Tungsram bulbs in addition to Phillips H9 swapping my high/low beams.

I was a silly goose who knew nothing about LED bulbs when I "upgraded" factory housings with them. As someone who wanted high performance, I achieved the exact opposite, and now that I'm running with what's best, I can literally see the difference.

Still want to upgrade to some DD yellow fogs in the future, but until I can afford it, the H11's will do.

 

Also Baja is holding up to their promise for free replacement. Kudos @Baja Designs

 

Yep, Baja SAE upgrade program info here:
https://www.bajadesigns.com/sae-upg...0cbiWDWsCXxR7JVKHVY3kTmc23_eHh6ghrwCd0.WrqHmu

 

Anyone planning on upgrading their SAEs? I've been really happy with mine, but a free swap is enticing.

I haven't seen anything to suggest this will be a limited time offer, so I might wait to see some comparisons first.

 

Would the new Squadron-R SAE fogs be better than the DD SS3 Pros at not blinding oncoming cars but still also be capable of melting snow? Basically, I'd like to get some amber fogs that are snow capable and not oppressively blinding. Any suggestions?

 

The 1st Gen Baja SAEs are 3,500 Candela (Cd, measured output intensity), the new SAEs are 15,800 Cd with better light control and less glare. I wouldn't see why you'd want to hold on the the old ones with a free upgrade offer.

Baja's projector optics will provide sharper cut offs, but as mentioned above power is down ~20% which is a key factor in melting snow.

The SS3 Max is still the best looking choice here IMO, it will run hotter than the Pros with sharper cut offs and have a wider pattern than the Morimoto HXB units. Also note that despite Baja's confusing terminology, the fogs are selective yellow, which is the industry standard term. The light is yellow and falls in a specific chromaticity color window of yellow, hence the 'selective' precursor. Amber is the color of your turn signals.

 

One thing I like about my amber lights over the stock fogs is that they pick up the side of the road and street signs/reflectors really well on dark country roads. They help me to spot deer, debris, or reflectors on roads that I'm unfamiliar driving. No one has ever flashed me for my lights being too bright.

More power and more light control might not be what I'm looking for even if the new lights have objectively "better" performance. Of course the new lights could just outperform mine across the board.

 

Thanks. I guess another factor to consider would be the pricing..without stepping up to the Max. I guess it's a tradeoff, melting snow/price. It almost sounds like a regular halogen fog with an ultrabright yellow H11 bulb might be what I'm looking for. It might be less efficient but it would create more heat.