1st Gen Lunchtable Thread - General Discussion

It's just a 3RZ with a VVTi head, not much to go wrong.

 

He was surprised by how complex the balance shaft was when taking it apart. I wonder why it took Toyota so long to put hydraulic lifters on their engines. So much better than shim over bucket.

 

I was told I had one. Still hurts pretty bad when I cough 6+ months later. Had a doctor feel me up and say I had one. CAT scan came back good so they said I must just be imagining it.

My faith in healthcare is low.

 

Eh, yes and no. Talk to people with vehicles that have HLA (hydraulic lash adjusters) and many will tell you they've had to replace lifters or run oil thinners to get the HLA cleaned out and pumped back up. Shim over bucket is still used in many vehicles because it has almost no major maintenance to do besides the occasional adjustment. If a lifter won't pump up for long enough it can wipe out the camshaft or destroy/mushroom pushrods and rocker ends and the ticking is annoying.

 

Can't believe these went until 05


https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2005-mercury-sable/

 

Oh I thought hydraulic lifters were usually maintenance free since you didn’t have to adjust them. It just seems to optimistic nowadays to expect owners to keep up with valve adjustments when most people can barely change their oil nowadays. At least I’ve never heard of many issues with Toyota’s hydraulic lifters, but I know the Big 3 have had a lot of issues with their newer valve trains with AFM etc.

 

They’ll let anything on BAT now huh. I thought it was supposed to be for enthusiast/collector cars.

 

Nostalgia is certainly part of the equation on BaT.
I get it. If you grew up riding in this and a clean 2 owner 29K mile one pops up, you might get excited.
Even if it is a nasty merlot color.

 

Merlot is the perfect color for it really, goes along with the whole Wino/soccer mom/Tupperware party vibe aesthetic

 

Hydraulic lifters are all plagued by the same issues, they can stick, they can not pump up entirely, they can pump up too much and hold a valve open. Mitsubishi and Nissan have been using them forever and they all have issues eventually. Honda K series engines are solid lifter and you have to adjust the rockers by hand and that's a totally modern engine. You've got a tendency to fall prey to small sample size bias. The valvetrain issues on 3RZ engines are hardly an issue, many never adjust theirs and they still go 250k but yes Toyota does say you should adjust it every 50k, likewise the same exact design is used on the 5VZ and Toyota recommends the same service and they're hardly ever out of adjustment. The 1FZ uses the same design and can go 400k plus without a valve adjustment. Shim over bucket is used because it is so incredibly low maintenance, and it requires way fewer moving parts. The cam directly contacts the shim which is mechanically sitting on top of the valve stem, vs adding a counter shaft for rockers to sit on so HLAs can take lash out which also means the head needs its own oil regulator and a full distribution block. Yamaha designed most of these heads for Toyota and they did an excellent job of ensuring reliability. How many other engines are as quiet, can have as little maintenance, and with as little loss of power over time can compete with a 90s Toyota? The 90s were 30 years ago... how many GM vehicles or Ford vehicles do you see in perfect working order being used as daily drivers that are 30 years old.

 

https://youtu.be/3-cXK0OaeB0

 

Hm what is it about the 3RZ and also the old F series that makes them more likely to go out out adjustment then? (If that maintenance is ignored)

 

The seats get impacted, the hardened valve seat gets sunk further into the soft aluminum. Only by a couple thousandths but that's enough to be out of adjustment, so what though, change a shim, takes a couple mins after the valve cover is off. It's such a small bit of maintenance that often times isn't even needed on an entire bank of cylinders. It's really only the RZ engines that have the interval so short, most other engines you'll never need to adjust the valves with a shim over bucket design, but instead of telling you that you never need to Toyota offered the opportunity to make your engine last even longer by warning you to at least check them.

 

Who made you the authority on what is an enthusiast or collectable car?

 

On the topic of shims. Can’t find the LCE shim kit for the 5VZ. I see single shims but they cost even more than OEM.

I’m never getting those OEM ones I ordered though. They are on backorder still.

 

Idk I was mostly kidding. It is an interesting question though: what makes a car an “enthusiast car”? I guess it only takes one person to be enthused about it.

 

Kohler commercial engine would like to agree with you

They're the only power equipment engine manufacturers that uses hydraulic lifters.. trying to tell us they're the best in the industry and their lifters never fail but then proceeds to say they'll collapse if you don't switch the engine oil to a winter blend when temps drop lol. I don't have a single commercial guy that's willing to change oil in the winter just because.... I've had to change quite a few lifters, push rods and rocker arms. Thankfully they wipe out the top end before ruining the camshaft

 

You can’t just get a valve grind done at a machine shop, or do you need to order new shims?

 

There's a lot of things people may find desirable about that car. Some people may just like wagons. Off the top of my head this is the last wagon mercury built. One of the last of the American made wagons. On paper the Tacoma is not an interesting vehicle with it's gutless drivetrains, small interior and pathetic payload, yet here we are. No need to yuck someone's yum.

 

https://www.cylinderheadsupply.com/kl9512.html