1st Gen Haltech ECU Discussion

Super interesting, seems like the MAF/IAT is not at all sufficient for boosted applications. The author also seems to lean towards using post-boost IAT as the best source of data for the ECU.

 

I am glad to see the type of IAT they recommend is what we will be using too. Exposed thermistor rather than encased in plastic or brass.

 

I don't think I have any timing being pulled, but I do have the fuel richening slightly at that point. I am using the auto VE correction. I'm more concerned about the coolant temp:air temp bias table at this point

 

I don't think I've touched the bias tables yet, the air temp timing table would be a safety measure. Probably just build some retard in for crazy values for the moment, and work down from there.

 

You absolutely 100% should use post-boost, post-intercooler IAT. Whatever is the closest to what will get into the cylinder... Thought that was obvious

 

Ya I'm not sure that it's really going to be tunable since you'd basically need a temp probe inside the head to take readings after the coolant heat soak takes affect on the charge air. My intake temps haven't seen anything higher than like 130* unless I'm idling for a while so haven't thought much about it, but ya up to a couple degrees of timing starting there out to maybe 250* (or whatever you expect as worst case) probably isn't a bad thing

 

It's pretty easy and obvious for turbo guys, SC guys from all makes and models argue about it and some ECU and piggyback companies even ask for it to be before the rotors. But in this case with a modern IAT sensor I'd expect it to be post boost/cooler myself.

 

Yeah that’s what I’m planning, seems like there is debate in that topic though. Especially since there is no IC on the 1st SC and there may be heat soak issues, etc

 

@drr Is this spot a possibility or is it not open inside like i think

 

Actually yes, there is an open chamber right behind that spot. For that matter, you could put the sensor right next to the TB and it would be centered in the chamber right before it splits into the individual runners.

 

Bearing in mind the sensor+connector are kinda tall any place in that open area where it will see good constant flow but doesn't take up the limited space of an individual runner is probably good then. Also don't want it too hard to clean chips out of

 

I wish I had my IAT sensor after the blower. Wasn't originally planning on doing the HT before installing it so didn't have the foresight to tap it. It makes the most logical sense as to where it should be though imo. Actual air temp going into the motor after heat generated by the SC.
I'd imagine I'd be able to eek more power out of it if I had the sensor there rather than before the tb.

 

After 22 years and 240k/mi my 3RZ is worn out. Exhaust valves burnt out, crack between exhaust seats, balance shaft chain, guide and bearings done... and I'm bored with it. So I got on the list with LCE for a longblock build. Nothing crazy, "Stage 1" if you want to call it that with a balance shaft delete, potential bump in compression (10:1) and their "Stage 2" head with SS valves, a little port work and mild cams. No forced induction.

In pulling the motor I was realizing all the emissions related stuff is old, antiquated and worn out. It seemed a shame to install a nice motor with all of that stuff in the way. Its a dual cat truck and I want to run a long tube header, eliminating a cat. I wondered if installing a mildly hi-performance engine would really matter with all of these corks, and if I should come back down to earth and have the local machine shop just rebuild it....

Or eliminate the fluff and go standalone!

Last week I received a Haltech Elite 750 with adaptor harness and kit from SNP in Havasu. I am getting pretty pumped about having a clean engine bay, maximized power out of the motor, clean and lean running machine!

Anyone else out there running a stand alone on a mild or stock NA 3RZ? Its a bit of an expense, I know, but I feel like the added value is there.

Cheers!

 

Only reason to do a balance shaft delete is if you're raising redline along with upgrading all other valvetrain components, which sounds like you're getting into. Make sure you get stiffer springs if you're going that route.
You could easily do a single high flow cat and do whatever you want to the exhuast, though a full custom exhaust $$ is better spent on the engine or forced induction IMO. If you're never going to do FI though and don't mind running 91, you could probably take the compression up another notch to 10.5:1

 

I know fire guys racing is running a 3rz NA on a haltech. SNP tuned it and I think LCE did the motor.
fwir, it's as suped up as an NA 3rz can get.

Doing the long tube headers and a single cat along with deleting the emissions stuff will be good if you wanna do FI later. I would also do a catch can. Even NA those motors have a good amount of blowby. at least mine did when I was NA.

I vote that you do either a turbo or SC, since you're gonna have a fresh motor that'll be able to rev up to higher rpms. SC would easier since it's just bolt on, but turbo would definitely make more power. tradeoffs on both depending on how you look at it.
but even if you don't, you'll be setup really well for if you do later down the line with the haltech and well built motor.

If you're going to have SNP do the tuning, I would highly recommend going to the shop and having Gabe tune it in person. Especially since you're in AZ already. It's MUCH more efficient that way.

I'm running the 3rz sc on a ht 750, 750cc injectors, water meth injection, egr delete, LCE LT headers, 2.5in exhaust w/ high flow cat, & custom intake

 

I’ve already run my motor with the balance shafts out. Pulled them last year because of spun rear bearings. That alone is reason enough to delete them. The balance shafts spin at twice the RPM as the motor and don't receive great oiling, so the bearings go. Eliminating the chain, guides, pulley and the weight of the shafts themselves is a very noticeable improvement in power. And with fresh motor mounts there is no noticeable dif in vibration. Doesn’t matter the RPM, balance shafts are in the way.

Fuel, compression, exhaust, valve springs… I’ve had built quite a few good off road motors and am familiar with how it all works together. I’m building this motor with LC Engineering and its thought out. I’m not building a race truck, or even a fast truck. Solid enduro off-roader here. Tunability and flexibility is the goal. Long trips in Mexico and the AZ strip are the inspiration. The reason for my post is seeking others running standalone ECU’s on mildly built NA motors.

 

Thanks man. Yeah, I’m not running forced induction. The goal here is to have the tunability and flexibility of a standalone ECU on a mildly-built NA motor for long haul off-roading. Fire guys are absolutely pushing the envelope with their 3RZ and that envelope rips wide open sometimes. Gabe will be tuning my truck in Havasu. Looking for others with mild 3RZ NA motors with a standalone set-up to understand what their experience has been.

 

I think you might be the first of your kind here to just dial in a stock spec NA engine. But I'm sure there's a bit of power on the table over stock ECU. Raised compression would be a good reason for the ECU change IMHO.

 

Eh, go for it if you can afford it. Stock ECU sucks
Higher compression pistons = better gas mileage too

 

Wow, now I am afraid of "whacking the throttle wide open" until we can change over from the MAF IAT sensor and dial in those safety tables.

Is there a page 2 of that article that I'm not seeing? It almost seemed to end in mid-thought. Great info btw.