Premium gas

There were discussions of increased fuel economy related to cost, I just showed the comparison. Unfortunately the stations here really get you for Premium.

Although it is true that modern engines (aka, near anything computer controlled) will advance timing it isn't an indefinite amount, many (factory) tunes will only add a small amount of timing. Some companies can go for max advance but comments on TW make me believe Toyota is very conservative on how much advance they allow. Bottom line, if the computer just went straight for max advance there would never be a need for ignition tuning, it would be done automatically. In reality we see ignition tuning on nearly all tunes. Timing advance is a very minor effect regardless and my point still stands, for the money spent in ONE year on premium (depending on location, yours would be <3 years) a tune will offer FAR greater effect for less money.

 

I recently did an mpg check on 87 I've been running now thats its much warmer. It came out to 22.8 mpg. Imo, its kind of crazy to run more expensive gas to get worse fuel economy.

 

Its really strange to see WORSE fuel economy from premium. I'm not exactly convinced there is much of a difference with premium but i have a real hard time believing performance and economy was worse.

FWIW, I do get the point of using premium for a better running engine. I despise how my engine runs, which is why I was trying premium fuels. If you notice a difference I can absolutely see the added expense for a better running engine. I have not noticed it on mine when running different fuels, but we know that there seems to be a big difference in how different Tacomas run.

 

i get around 22 mpg with 87. 24-25 with 89. You gotta run at least 4-5 tanks after switching octanes before it fully adjusts. or you can clear the learned values with a bidirectional scan tool if you want to speed the process up.

I switched because it was retarding timing on 87 and the power was abysmal. Constant gear hunting, and revving the piss out of the engine just to accelerate with traffic. with 89, power delivery is much smoother, no yo-yo effect when in high gears with low RPMs. Felt like it was lugging the engine all the time with 87.

 

It's entertaining for the folks who state their vehicles run better on higher octane fuels but have zero objective facts other than, "it feels better!"

 

So grab a tester and prove them wrong.

Claiming there is a difference or there is NOT a difference without objective facts is the exact same fallacy.

 

increased timing advance and MPGs confirms it for me. still get ignorant folks like you in every thread who make it their mission to piss on everyone for running premium fuel. i'm also not going to compile a years worth of data just to prove to some jerk on a forum that my truck runs like shit on 87.

 

I'm not claiming either/or. I'm just not going to put 93 octane in the truck with my understanding of how octane in relation to how a 4-stroke engine works.

Heck, I hesitate to even discuss the benefits of a tune in my truck because other than the additional throttle sensitivity and perceived mid-range power bump (which could be attributed to the throttle response alone), because I don't have any measurable data to report with. I had originally planned on getting before/after dyno pulls but my schedule didn't allow it. I still kick around the idea of putting it on a dyno for fun, just to see if the torque curve is noticeably different than other stock trucks but then we all know dyno charts are most useful to compare changes on the same vehicle.

 

I said objective facts. If you've logged data that shows an improvement then you don't lack those facts and shouldn't have a reason to be defensive.

 

Unless you have a tune to run it or a supercharger/ Turbo you don’t need it or won’t benefit from it

 

Yet you made it a point to identify that about those that run premium but got defensive when it is pointed out claiming the opposite is the exact same fallacy.

again, the claim that it runs better is just as strong or weak as the claim that is doesn't run better. There have been no OBJECTIVE facts to support EITHER claim, yet you don't seem to be harping on those who claim it makes no difference.

Its obvious you are arguing one direction here, own it.

 

I suppose I could've worded it better and also stated,

I also find it humorous all the folks who are saying that premium fuels don't make an improvement aren't sharing the data to back up their points?

Admittedly I'm mostly poking fun at any of the frequent posts here about things people do to their trucks and the only feedback they can provide are "it feels smoother."

 

Eih, if enough folks notice a difference there may actually be something to it. It's not always obvious what thing one should track to prove there is a difference. I could track acceleration and how jerky it is, but in the end the data would be so bad from our crappy road I couldn't prove if the engine had gotten more smooth. Things like spark advance need to be logged against something since it's dependent upon so many other factors. If you can even log cam advance it itself needs to be logged against at least rpm and I expect load. Those logs are going to be crap to prove anything. If you can show there is 2 degrees more of spark advance at 3200 rpm with 40% load does that even actually prove anything? Did the air temp change? What was the coolant temp? Etc.

"Proof" is hard and this stuff is so esoterical to most here that even "proof" can be wrong, or easily dismissed by those that don't want to hear it. Once you get above say three parameters the data becomes so complex anyways and we are back to confirmation bias or rejection

So I ask. What exactly would "prove" to you that premium made a difference? And let's avoid the dyno since peak power isn't everything. What could prove there is a difference?

 

It would depend on what improvements they're stating. If the claim is more power, I don't see why dyno numbers couldn't back up said claims. We both know peak numbers don't always tell the story but simply looking at the graph could show difference in the shape of the torque curves. We all know about different biases when it comes to statistics and data.

I think we're discussing the same thing from different angles in wanting data. I'm just somebody that likes data when it comes to statements; we should be better than "it runs smoother." At least try to articulate how it's running smoother. If folks could simply state, "I love this intake because it looks rad and makes noise" I can appreciate that. Statements like, "These brake pads are better" or "these bulbs are brighter" don't help the community.

On the other side of things, I get there are upgrades made that are difficult to quantify. Take your accumulator disc (which is sitting on my desk and I haven't gotten around to installing); from all I've read it's about the feel of the clutch engagement. I doubt anyone is going to measure the flow rate of clutch fluid before and after the accumulator has been disabled in order to graph its improvements since the objective of the modification is to improve the feel. Whereas a short throw shifter one can easily measure the reduced distances between shifts. I guess I'm just talking in circles now and it's about time to get out of work and grab a beer. Cheers!

 

Sounds like we are discussing the difference between 49% and 51%, damn close.

You state your point very well

 

Another curveball got this topic.
Does anyone regularly running”ethanol free” fuel? There is a station that sells 87 and 90 octane ethanol free.

Years ago we had close access to ethanol free fuel. Always got 2-3mpg better mileage than the ethanol blended BS.

 

I like the idea of running premium fuel and have noticed a difference doing so, but it's hard to swallow the 30 cent premium per liter here. That's like $1.14 a gallon! Gas gouging anyone? Right now our regular is $5.75 a gallon and premium is $6.90! Premium makes it run better but not that much better!

 

Idk how much truth there is to a cleaner running engine running premium. The tail pipe on my truck gets sooty black with 92 or higher fuels. It's spotless on 87. Imo, excess carbon isn't great.
Imo, it's just like oil changes with some guys....more is always better whether you need it or not.

 

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Very true.

I think that is a lot of what some of us want to know. Is there truth here that premium runs better, does it run better in ALL Tacomas? Or are folks just seeing what they want to see? But, seeing what you want to see can work both directions too.

Like I said before, I tracked ignition advance between a variety of fuels including 87, 91, 93 and top tier. In my case I was unable to identify any changes to the amount of spark advance regardless of the fuel (plotted as maximum advance observed by load and RPM). The downside, I did not run 3-4 tanks of Premium through before I recorded the numbers, I only ran one. I'll try again once I get my computer mounted in my truck again.

 

I run 93 and my truck appears to run better. I have no "gear hunting" and my transmission shifts as smooth as glass. Try it for 3 tankfulls. If you don't notice any differencs, switch back. For a 20 gallon tank, at an extra 1 dollar a gallon, it may be worth a 60 dollar experiment.