3rd Gen HID vs LED vs Halogen H11 projector headlights

https://www.replacementlightbulbs.com/lamp9011_12v_65w_hir1.html

After searching in my local area with no success, I called this place and spoke to Bob about the Sylvania HIR1 9011's to see if they were the Korean or German made. He went and checked in the warehouse for me. The have 51 Korean made in stock if anyone is interested.

Funny parts is he had someone else call not long ago asking the same thing! I cant help but think its someone from this thread.

 

Got some, look legit to me. Thanks!

 

Alright, here I go.

I took the time to read quite a few of these pages and I would prefer not to do the H9’s because the road I have to take up and down(switchbacks) to and from the house in some cases would blind the crap out of people. So I would prefer sticking to H11’s. I’m not looking for super bright light. I just want to improve the stock H11’s output some and would prefer the warmer color if that’s at all possible.

Or are LED’s my best choice?

 

you shouldn't blind the crap out of people with H9s. Our projectors have a cutoff shield. Halogen bulbs, including H9, have the filament for focus in our housings so light doesn't scatter

Those choices are posted in post #2. All the info about brightness, color temp, and suggestions for H11's (and H9's) are right there.
I've used both GE +130s (no longer available), and the Tungsrams posted there, and they have worked well, but I was looking for a cooler temp color.
H9's will meet your warmer requirement

Depends on what you mean by LED?
OEM LED housings? YES (but might not align with your desire to not be "super bright" nor "warmer color")
LED "bulbs"? NO

 

I have a lot of up and down and also run H9s and will agree that it seems that they can be a bit much to oncoming traffic when the truck is pointed upward a little bit.

What matters here is light intensity and a high intensity light will be harder on oncoming drivers. So H9 or high performance H11 it will be the same.

If you go with a regular H11 (not H11 long life) the lights will be brighter but maybe not TOO bright.

LED options, almost universally, will be worse for oncoming drivers

 

There it is, thank you for the response!!!!

 

That's called confirmation bias.

ANY light will be annoying if one person is going uphill and another downhill at a crest.
Overcomes the cut off shield just due to pure angles
If you're at the same angle shouldn't matter.

I guess I'm trying to figure out what you're asking? you want better, but not that much better?

Anyhoo - just don't buy drop in LEDs in a halogen housing. The rest of the world will thank you

 

This bias is dependent…and h9’s are very bright, being they are HIGH BEAM bulbs. I wonder what a CHP’s bias will be?

I’ll pass on blinding people going up and down my hill.

 

Referring to Crash's intensity measurements on page one, we see that the H9 almost doubles the maximum intensity of the stock long life H11 bulb. The trouble with intensity measurements is that the human eye does not process light intensity in a linear manner, it does so in a roughly logarithmic one. 2x the measured intensity does not translate to 2x the perceived brightness to anyones eyesight. Add to that that the color temperature and spectrum is extremely close (the higher intensity source will be ever so slightly higher in color temp), and therefore is producing minimal extra blue wavelength light (which *is* more perceptibly glare inducing), and there is little argument against using an H9. The other performance upgrade H11's are all very close in maximum intensity to the H9, and most use blue banding on the bulb envelope to reduce intensity, where the H9 does not (excepting the Hella and maybe sylvania bulbs which aim for a higher color temp).

More critical than just the bulb choice is ensuring proper aim for the typical load conditions, especially if you live in hilly areas. A great resource for checking and adjusting aim is Daniel Sterns website, link here:

http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/aim/aim.html

A high performance lamp with the best bulb will still result in poor visibility if it is misaimed.

 

You need to go study what confirmation bias is.

 

It is however still brighter to oncoming traffic, maybe not twice as bright but still significantly brighter. Everything we perceive as improvement to the lighting (brighter for the driver) is less than the increase to oncoming traffic.

Properly aiming doesn't fix this for hills. I have the recommended DOWNWARD aim and with even the slightest rise it still puts the main beam directly into the eyes of oncoming traffic. With the soft suspension of the Tacoma even spirited acceleration puts the headlights directly into the eyes of oncoming traffic. Any more downward aim and I would give up significant distance projection

 

FWIW, I have driven Topanga Canyon Blvd (CA SR 27) several times as my wife grew up there and has family friends still. if we are talking night driving in that location then I understand your concerns. This is one spot where I might rely on dd ss3 max in white fog pattern for low speed driving when weather decreases visibility.

I got them for our minivan for the switchbacks on 74 into Palm Desert and found they work well to illuminate the road edges without being a problem for drivers approaching from the other direction.

Also, I run H9’s in the low beam for the minivan. I’ve experimented with fog only on 74 and it’s pretty good for low speeds.

I do suspect that the increased height of a Tacoma makes for more concern than I have for our van. Especially so if lifted and/or soft (stock offroad) suspension. But, I can’t say high efficiency H11 vs H9 is a material change as far as glare to oncoming drivers.

Perhaps the major concern here lies in the graphs of peak Lux at 18’?

https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads...11-projector-headlights.589465/#post-19689309

It’s worth pointing out that the stock bulbs at 623 are truly terrible so moving up to a better performing bulb is well within the envelope of normal vehicle lighting.

The solution to this scenario is matrix lighting which can detect approaching vehicles and disable zones of lighting to accommodate them in real time.

 

I'm very excited for matrix lighting!

 

Hometown, you should drive up my road, I can think of 5 spots where unfortunately the craziness in the road structure will not favor a H9. If the highway patrol, insurance company, and a rep from DOT stood there observing…forget it.

The 27 can be tough too as you mentioned.

Thank you for your response. Much appreciated for the leads. A better performing H11 is what I would prefer. I’ll start with the Phillips Vision and go from there.

 

There are some nice Tungsram bulbs too, I have both 120’s and 130’s. The 120’s were priced well, but the 130’s were so much more spendy than H9’s.

The thought of our public servants hanging out on a dark and windy road to give a ticket for headlight offenses, well, that makes me chuckle.

I used to fight the H9 choice. Mostly because of the color. But you might say I’ve warmed to them . Primarily because they are so damn cheap.

 

I can all but guarantee that modern factory led headlamps are going to be more offensive than a h9 bulb. The color temp alone is a game changer. Glare or hotspot from a halogen bulb isnt anything to the 6000k color temp of led lamps. I daily a camry on hills in colorado. Lifted trucks with halogens dont bother me. Its the damn midsize suv with led factory lamps.

 

he came out and pre-stated he didn't want to blind people with H9s, then asked a question
I presented an answer contrary to that
You presented an opinion stating he will

he accepted your answer since it aligned with his preconceived thought, confirming his initial statement, being more likely to accept your answer than others

that is confirmation bias, looking for evidence and accepting one answer that confirms his pre-existing belief, while rejecting other perspectives

TBH - we don't need to argue about definitions
As long as he is not putting drop in LEDs, then everyone is happy.
He can put any halogen he wants, but some perform better than others (the whole point of this thread)

 

What defines a high beam is not just the bulb. It is also the angle of reflection/projection designed into the housing for distance projection, and lacks a cutoff shield. The latter component design in our low beam projectors is what attenuates those effects (and proper aiming).

Perhaps I am not appreciating your specific location enough.
I would say though, based on what your describing, sounds like any light will be annoying.

You picked Phillips vision. I'm unaware of any testing on this.
Some performance H11 approach the lux of H9.

As per the other post - as long as you're not using drop in LEDs - I think you're good.

Report back on your experience

 

The problem is this forum treats the H9 upgrade the same that Ford F150 forums treat PnP LEDs , a [Jedi hand wave] "it's not a problem" isn't an answer.

Don't get me wrong, I fully support the H9 upgrade, but I have personal experience of getting flashed with the H9 where there are frequent elevation changes (and yes, they are aimed properly). The simple fact of the matter is my H9s have a higher peak intensity than many of the (OEM) LEDs on modern cars and those can be almost painful to have coming at you (as a reminder intensity, lux, already accounts for the difference between yellow and blue light). The peak lux (in beam) of an H9 is also SIGNIFICANTLY brighter than the glare PnP LEDs that we bash so hard.

We can come up with whichever excuses we want but the truth is that the increase in output that we tout so highly for improving our vision is by it's very nature also an even greater increase of light into the eyeballs of oncoming cars.

Ultimately, my H9s are brighter than most of the painfully bright lights on the road, we shouldn't just hand wave that away. If someone isn't looking for the absolute best performance and wants to make sure they don't create painfully bright lights we shouldn't just ignorantly claim it isn't a problem, claiming it isn't a problem is what the PnP led guys do

 

Intensity measurements do account for the warm/cool color temp in terms of intensity, however that isn’t the complete story for perceived intensity to the oncoming driver. Human eyes are extremely sensitive to blue light wavelengths, meaning a cool/blue light color will be perceived as far brighter, more glaring, and more difficult to look at than a warmer/yellower light color of equal intensity.

Ultimately the scenario that you describe where the oncoming driver falls below your cut off horizon on an hill crest into the full intensity of your headlights is going to be problematic regardless of your bulb choice. Warmer colors will be less offensive than cooler ones of the same intensity. The real answer here is matrix headlights as mentioned before, but that isn’t something that can be retrofitted. So your only choice if wanting less light output below your cut offs (resulting in lower performing headlights) is to choose a lower performing bulb. Just because it is an H11 does not mean it will be significantly less offensive to those below your cut offs, as the good H11s come impressively close to the H9s in peak intensity.