Any opinion on 9mm's

Just remember:

IF IT'S YOUR TIME TO GO, IT'S YOUR TIME TO GO!

IF IT'S NOT YOUR TIME TO GO, IT'S NOT YOUR TIME TO GO!

 

Only when it's raining on the moon.

 

I dont think I wanna hang out with any of you guys.... lots of you have "friends" and experience with lots of people getting shot.. WTF

I thought some of my buddies were a little trigger happy.

I based my purchases on what is cheapest to punch holes in paper... .22 rifle
Most fun to make big holes and alot of noise... 12 guage pump shotgun (also pretty cheap to shoot and maintain)
and a pistol that is easy to work with and clean ... 9mm Glock17

This also makes for a pretty well rounded arsenal for the zombie apocalypse when complimented with machete, hatchet, camping skills and lots of well grounded research.

 

X2 on the last line of this statement... How often do everyday people get into fire fights?

 

Guys just remember, predominantly all law enforcement agencies, local, state and federal have all spent enormous amounts of money to change their weapons over from 9mm to either 45's 40's or 10's. All these organizations have invested countless hours and money on research (based on real shootouts). There is a reason for this that simply cant be argued with, fact is fact peroid.
I agree any handgun in any caliber is better than no handgun. The 9mm is an ok round but thats it. If Im going to go through the pain in the ass of carrying a gun for personal defense I might as well use a round that will increase my chances of a fatal shot.
I hope that nobody has to ever be in a situation that would warrant them to use deadly physical force. Its truely is a nightmare dealing with the lawsuits that arise from the shooting.

 

Just out of curiosity brother, what law enforcement agency do you work for and what sidearm do they issue. By the way thats a real nice 45acp that you have pictured on your profile.

 

What's with the two "professional" law enforcement officers acting like spoiled cry babies? Come on you two, honorably represent the badges you wear.

Is a 9mm adequate? Yes, it can kill people all day long. Is it the best man stopper? No, bigger calibers can hit harder but there is a trade off of recoil, more expensive ammo, etc. Is shot placement, technique, and consistent practice what matters most? Yes. Does everybody do all of that stuff perfectly? No, and they never will.

The 9mm is the best choice for certain people in certain situations. Other calibers are better for other people in other situations. Decide what works for you. Everybody has an opinion. In some ways they're all right. Its a matter of preference though. Its one of those arguments that can't and wont be won like politics, religion, Ford vs. Chevy, curvy body vs, athletic body, etc.

 

I the whole thing funny. Long ago, the 38 was found to be an inferior man stopper. The 45 came around and solved the problem. Then, in a stroke of inspiration, they decided the 45 was antiquated. The new savior was the 9mm, with higher velocities, it would lay waste to enemies near and far... Look at how we're right back to the good ol' 45.
Now, we just have to re-realize that the 223 is an inferior man stopper and get back to the trusty 30-06!

 

Picked this up yesterday. Includes three different backstraps, 13rd and 19rd clips, two extra clip extensions.

 

Being a police officer and having studied terminal ballistics for years as a hobby... I CAN SAY THAT TO THE EDUCATED THE UTTERANCE OF THE WORDS "ONE SHOT STOP" puts you in the category of fools who read faked and misrepresented data. Its smacks of Marshall and Sanow which is well know to be manipulated, faked, and otherwise debunked as factual, real, or in the least bit able to withstand peer review. It immediately should indicate to anyone who hears that phrase that you should not listen to ANYTHING that the person who uttered those words has to say on the issue of wound ballistics.

Anyone who has studied statistics, knows how to perform REAL scientific testing, etc would never accept that garbage as REAL data... what they consider as an acceptable one shot stop vs not logged allows one to manipulate data etc.

The fact is only one thing matters in wound ballisitcs... tissue destruction and disruption. That is how it works. The fact is the best 9mm rounds are damn near identical to .40 rounds in tissue damage. I carry a 9mm at work and have no doubt it will do the job... Id say its the minimum acceptable caliber that will do what I want in all circumstances but it is acceptable. Saying a .22lr is adequate is beyond silly and shows a true lack of understanding.

Why dont I want a .40? Capacity, ammo cost, sound, recoil. In that order. To give up all those for a tiny increase in penetration and wound profile is not worth it IMO.

 

9mm requires use of only the very best rounds to be nearly as effective as the majority of .40 rounds, but when used they are more than 90% as effective. I am familiar with not only the testing involved with the changes to .40 but the people who conducted the testing. I find flaws in the logic and still use 9mm. The increase in penetration and wound profile of a good .40 round to my departmentally issue RA9TA is miniscule. As to the individuals who use those rounds... we all know they are the only ones "professional enough" to notice the difference, lol.

Its like people who want 3 HP from an exhaust change... its just not enough to concern yourself about and not enough to even notice, what will be noticed is the cost and noise increase.

I carry Hornady 75 grain 5.56 pressure TAP (LE only) and Winchester 127 +P+ 9mm (LE only). Anyone who tries to claim those have effectiveness issues has a screw loose. Go to a hog shoot. Do your own autopsies when you clean your animals. See what they do in tissue first hand.

We had a guy recently shoot an aggressive Pitbull right through the neck, back and torso of the dog and it ran off howling... it lived and was walking around panting and bleeding within a minute. I knew he would go to .45 after that. A few weeks later he has an Ed Brown on his hip. I continue to carry my Sig 9mm. I already knew pistol rounds are incredibly weak in all calibers. The fact the dog didnt die or fall down did not supprise me. This guy was really happy when the .40 was used to put down an armed suspect previuos to that... but he was hit multiple times. A single pistol round is seldom effective. Most people survive them.

 

If a congresswoman can get shot in the head with a 9mm and live...its just proof the 9mm isnt the greatest. Shot placement is key but sometimes you only get one shot...there will always be the caliber wars and which one is the best. I like the ruger compact revolvers that will take 357 mag. That way you can practice with 38 spcl even +P's and then load it with 357 mags for when it counts. I think the idea of CCW and personal protection carry/use is to make it out alive not be slugging it out in a shopping mall with a 15 rd mag full of 9mm to save the day...

 

22LR come on dont be silly. .223=great especially hornady tap 75gr this is what I use in my m4. As far as wound balistics tops are 45acp, 10mm, 357mag and of course 44mag. Scientific data and real life prove this time and time again.

 

My bad.....Magazine.



OR

 

.357 Mag wounds and 9mm wounds are not distiguishable from one another.

9mm sucks and .357 Mag is great? Thats a riciulous statement. Its like saying the LS V8 sucks and a Hemi V8 rules. They are so close as to not matter. Literally ANYTHING else other than caliber matters more than .357 vs 9mm.

You have about 200 fps or less seperating the best 9mm from a 4" barreled 357 revolver. Less in compact autos vs snubbies.

The switch away from 9mm is founded in the Miami shootout where some old tech hollowpoints in 115 grain weight failed to penetrate to required depth... that is no longer an issue for 9mm.

If we were talking FMJ Id be saying go .45 all the way. For modern expanding hollowpoints... 9mm is good enough and FAR better than .45 FMJ the military uses.

 

AZHornet
I just sold my Glock 21SF and 35 and will be keeping my 34...My piece is for mostly plinking with part time CCW usage...for my CCW I will probably go with the Glock 36...I like the idea of a bit more punch compared to the 26/27.

I really like the 36 prob next time. I'm thinking the 19 or 26. I like the 33 round clip on Glock World.

 

Whats better for serious off roading a locker or a limited slip differential. You could get by with either although if you were given a choice I think all would pick a locked differential. This is the point I have been trying to make. Can you kill someone with a 9mm- yes you definately can. Are there better calibers that fit into the same size gun that will increase your chances of that kill shot - definately. Why not get the best bang for your buck. Just trying to impart knowlege gained by many years of experience and true life situations, and certainly not trying to insult those with 9mm's. This thread specifically called for opinions on the 9mm.

 

I know I'm way off topic here, sorry.
To the op, i'm sure this has already been said here(I just cant bring myself to dig through all the mindless babble of people shitting on your thread) but anyhow, The bottom line is this: get her whatever she is most comfortable with. Let her pick them both up (unloaded) and bring to aim. the key here is to find something that feels natural for her. Bring her to a range that rents different firearms and let her shoot them. let her shoot it in different calibers if possible, and find the one that she feels most comfortable with (not something that scares her every time she pulls the trigger). be sure to get something she can afford to shoot alot. Practice is key, and if you cant afford to send a few hundred rounds downrange pretty regularly you may as well arm her with a sling shot...
Hope i've given you a little usefull insight.....happy shooting.

sorry for interupting the caliber vs caliber thread

 

Who ever said a .22LR was adequate- I certainly didnt. Also permanent wound ballistics ie: tissue destruction concerning 9mm vs 45acp and 10mm are not even close when compared utilizing the best hollowpoints for all three rounds. And by the way very little difference in cost,sound and recoil between .40SW and 9mm when purchasing quality carry ammo (not cheap range ammo).