Crashnburn80's Tesla Model 3 Performance Longer Range Build

Our Honda has keep in lane, you can turn it on or off with a steering wheel button. I assume no combination of pat your head and rub the stalk with your left pinky to disable for 30s in the Tesla? One more reason why physical buttons and tactile inputs can make sense. I usually turn keep-in-lane on when I want and off when I don't.

One thing worth trying, if you throw on a turn signal, does that allow you to cross onto the shoulder without correcting? That's how I've learned to get past the Honda tech when exiting the roadway. Dunno if you really want to tell cars behind you what you're doing or risk them attempting to pass but curious if that helps any.

 

It’s hard not to love free charging. Want a free tank of gas equivalent everywhere you go? Yes please.

 

Welp, I had to jinx it. No more free charging at my vacation condo. They installed paid level 2 chargers with an absurd rate of 39c/kWh in a city where power is 3c/kWh, meaning a 50% charge would cost about $16. At home I pay 11c/kWh.

 

At that rate I'd go to a supercharger and be done quicker. (assuming there's one within range.). In my experience charging at hotels is hit and miss. One offered "FREE EV CHARGING!" in their ad, but it was nothing more than a 120V outlet on a light pole.

 

I’ve had good experiences taking our MY on road tips to the Sierras, Reno, and Tahoe. Every hotel we stayed at had free Level 2 charging. On a trip this past winter we spent around $60 total for doing around 1100 miles round trip. I can only imagine how much it would have been for the Tacoma with fill ups in Bend, Klamath Falls, Alturas, Reno, Bishop etc etc etc.

 

I just saw this thread on the front page when I opened up the site this morning. I didn't read every post in this thread so if what I post is a repeat I apologize.

That is a nice looking Tesla and I think you did it right and I think you did your homework on it also. I have no issue with EV's. In fact there are so many Teslas running around Colorado Springs that you see one about every other car. Before we moved out here, we could have easily made an EV work for us. Very rarely did we ever travel more than a few miles to get pretty much everything we needed because everything was so close to us. And to be honest? I actually considered buying the car you bought. It would have worked perfectly for us and where we lived.

There is no doubt that EV's are the future. And with all the tech in these vehicles, it's hard not to be impressed. Instant torque on demand from a standstill, 0 - 60 in under 3 secs? Yes please.

The Model 3 Performance IMO is one of the best values for your money when it comes to an EV.

But I would be lying if I said that I won't bemoan the demise of the ICE. The Remac Nevera is probably the most capable EV on the market today and it is truly impressive. Unrivaled speed, handling, tech, etc... The only downside is it cost over $2,000,000. But what the Nevera doesn't have is "theater. And theater is part of the joy of driving. Hearing a naturally aspirated screaming V12 behind your head is something that can not be replaced or replacated. Hell... just hearing the exhaust on just a V8 Mustang is something that can't be replaced. And the loss of a manual transmission in the vast majority of sports cars is another thing that I miss. You have a connection to the car and you are an integral part of the driving process. EV's take that away from you. You essentially just become a passenger in a car that essentially does everything for you. Don't get me wrong... I'm all for EV's. And they are coming whether we like it or not.

The issue that I see with EV's at the moment is, until there is an infrastructure in place nationwide (meaning a charge station at every fuel station) and until you can charge the battery as fast as you can fuel up a regular ICE? EV's won't be the norm until that happens. The issue for "me" is if we were living where we used to live and wanted to take a vacation out West like we always did, I would have to plan out the trip according the the charge stations. Then I'd have to sit at that charge station for at least 20-30 mins for it to get back to 80% charge. I'm not willing to do that. And the vast majority of people just don't want to do that either. I realize there are many variables in that statement but in "general", that is the issue that most people have with an EV. They are great around the city or for trips that stay within the battery range. But once you go out of that range? Most people aren't willing to put up with the hassle.

Don't get me wrong... I love EV's and the inherent performance that comes with them. If I had the choice? I'd buy a Lucid Air or a Rivian. There are quite a few Rivian trucks out here and those things are impressive!

But, who am I to talk? I bought a Mercedes that, on a good day, gets 15mpg on the freeway.

 

I live in Microsoft/Google/Amazon tech country, Teslas are a dime a dozen and one of the most common cars on the road. They are nothing special here.

The Remac Nevera is a remarkable machine, but 0-60 in 1.7s with 210 mile range and 2 seats for $2.2M vs Tesla S Plaid 0-60 in 1.9s with 400 mile range while seating 5 with multiple trunks for ~$110k... One of these things is far more practical than the other. Obviously there is more than straight line performance that you'd get in a performance sports car vs sedan, but still, paying nearly 20x is a hard pill to swallow.

In a pure bred 2 seat sports car, I think something can be said about lack of the audio sound track. In a family sedan, I don't think it is so cut and dry. You grow to appreciate the silence. When you romp on it there is a whine like a supercharger from the electric motors as you are crushed back into your seat and the car rockets off at an uncomfortable rate of acceleration. Unfortunately manual transmissions are already dying, modern technology can shift better and faster than humans in ICE vehicles. The fact EVs don't need transmissions isn't that much different from many performance ICE manufactures that have determined traditional manual transmission are now obsolete and discontinued them.

The idea that EVs take something away or that you are just a passenger sounds like you have not driven one, or at least not a performant one. I've spent my whole life obsessed with cars, got a degree designing cars and am very much a pure blood car enthusiast. The EV transition is different for sure, while 3 pedal driving is best, I find 1 pedal driving far more engaging than 2 pedal driving, which is just the worst. The cars can be engaging with the battery weight all under the base of the car, no weight in the nose, AWD and a rear weight bias making the car absurdly responsive and corner well beyond what any sedan has a right to do.

Re charging, yes and no. If you have a Tesla the charging network is fantastic. You can drive coast to coast, or boarder to boarder without issue. The cars charge dumb fast and best part is you just tell the car where you are going and it figures everything out for you. Zero guess work or route planning for you. The car even optimizes charging stops to minimize charge times so it is more like stopping for gas, you almost never charge to 80% at a supercharger because then you'd sit there for 15-20 minutes and nobody does that with a Tesla, unless you are somewhere really remote. The car can charge stupid fast when you are low on charge, but as your fill up the charging slows way down, so that later portion of charge percentage takes far longer than the initial input into your battery which is what causes there long charge time. I usually only supercharge for 5-7 minutes. But range anxiety is also over rated. Before I bought mine I was really considering the M3 Long Range over the Performance, because everyone talked about the range and charging worries, and the infrastructure isn't ready, and that the performance would only be good for in-city. Turns out I can drive it across Washington State, crossing multiple mountain passes, 4 hours on the road and arrive with 30%+ charge and more to spare. It's kinda absurd. So yes, if I am on the road ~7 hours without ever stopping I'd have to charge at an easily accessible supercharger. It really isn't the issue people make it out to be, unless you are regularly doing 8 hour drives from home. Non-EV drivers had me so worried about this I paid for a CSS to Tesla charger adapter with all these people saying you'd need every charger possible to own an EV. I'm not driving 7+ hours every day, there are always Tesla superchargers, it was a complete waste of money and I've never used it.

I actually ordered a Rivian. And then later cancelled and ordered my Tesla and purchased a 1st Gen Tacoma instead. I do really like the Rivian. But what it came down to is the Rivian isn't as charge capable as the Tesla. Rivian doesn't currently have access to the Tesla charge network, which is a massive handicap. Supposed to change in 2025. But also the truck is so heavy and inefficient compared to a Tesla. I feel like people really overlook this. The model 3 long range/performance has an 82kWh battery, providing 315miles performance and 353 miles for the long range. The Rivian large pack is 135kWh for 314 miles. The biggest concern about those transitioning to EV is charge time and range. Because the Rivian is so much heavier and has such a larger battery over the model 3, it will require 65% more charging time to got he same distance as the Tesla performance. The larger battery and heavier weight to go the same distance comes at a significant tax. Compared to the Tesla Long Range it is going to be even worse. And that is with favorable weather since Tesla's highly efficient heat pumps are vastly more efficient than Rivian's power hungry coil resistance heaters which will reduce range further. While a Tesla 3 can recharge off of a standard outlet, that is going to be a hard stretch for a power hungry Rivian. Add due to the lack of the supercharging network I had very real concerns that I'd drive the Rivian to places it might not be able to leave due to lack of charging without spending days there plugged in. Not an issue for the Tesla with much lower power requirements for the same range and the vast Tesla charging network.

Also, more free charging.

 

Maybe I came across as anti EV / anti Tesla in my post. That certainly wasn't my intention and if you took it that way certainly I apologize. I love EV's and there is no doubt that is the way of the future.

True... I do not own Tesla. But with the picture I posted I guess you already knew that But... I have driven a few Teslas that a couple of my friends own and I don't have anything bad to say about them other than some trim quality and paint work but that's neither here nor there. There is no doubt that you will never know the feeling of being pushed back in your seat by the instant torque on demand unless you have driven / been a passenger in one. It's brutal and is "almost" painful if you aren't ready.

I suppose my main point is eventually the ICE will no longer exist. Might be quite a while before that happens but eventually it's coming. That is the part that I bemoan. I've been into cars all my life. My Grandfather owned a machine shop and started teaching me how to rebuild engines when I was 11. While I was in college I would work at his shop every summer for extra money. I can still rebuild a 350 Chevy in my sleep. And I cherish those memories because

1: I got to work with my Grandfather

2: I developed a deep love for mechinical things and cars in general.

I have been fortunate enough to drive Ferrari 458 and a Lamborghini Huracan Performante. So when I was speaking of theater, the sound that those cars make is pure music that we will eventually lose. It's the total engagement that vehicles like that offer that an EV can never replace IMO. Same thing with a manual transmission. There are so few manual transmissions in cars anymore. Porsche 911 ST is a prime example of a pure sports car. And will "probably" be one of the last manual transmissions put in there lineup. I hope I'm wrong on that. And a Porsche GT3 RS might as well be a race car for the road. It's obvious that the PDK is far superior over a manual. And while that is true, you can't replace the feeling of feeling like you are part of the entire driving process. The last of the naturally aspirated engines from those companies will soon disappear forever and I find that sad. Again, it all goes back to theater.

The only reason that I brought up the Nevera is because (right now), it is the pinnacle of what an EV is capable of. Is it practical? Hell no lol. Probably one of the least practical vehicles ever produced. But, it is impressive what it can achieve and even more impressive that it was completely designed and built in Croatia of all places. The last place you would think a hypercar would come from. And yes, I agree that $2,000,000 is a stupid price to pay for one. But "if you build it, "they" will come".

My comment about charging wasn't meant as a negative. Especially for people that own a Tesla. But you did kind of prove a point. Tesla has a large charge network that is available to Tesla owners. My comment was that the general population is not ready for an EV because there is no standardized charging network. And until there is a standardized charging network that will charge any EV without adapters and will charge up the vehicle in the same amount of time that it takes to fuel up a normal vehicle? Most people won't be willing to switch until they have no other choice.

My comment that you are just a passenger in an EV like a Tesla kind of holds true. Not that you can't take control and drive the hell out of it if you want to. But the car can also drive itself if you want it to. We just sold a 2022 RAV4 and I think you would agree that the tech in the RAV4 isn't remotely close to what Tesla has to offer. But we took it to the Grand Canyon, Vegas, Utah, and Colorado last year and there was many 100's of miles that all I was, was a passenger. It drove itself. All I had to do was touch the steering wheel about every 20 secs. I will say that it was one of the most comfortable "long haul" vehicles I've ever owned.

Rivian is kind of a moot point. It is clear that you have done your homework on the ins and outs of EV's. But Rivian is built for a completely different purpose. You can't take your Tesla onto a trail and rock crawl with it. You can with a Rivian. So I suppose the choice is "what are you going to use your vehicle for?". If you are just going to street your EV then Rivian is a waste of money. But if you are going to use it off road? It makes more sense.

The thing that really sells me on an EV is the cost of ownership. I own a Mercedes and I'm not lying when I say that it's going to be 50 / 50 if everything is going to work as intended. There are so many moving parts and what I'm asking it to do is not really what it was designed to do. An EV doesn't have all of the moving parts of a normal ICE. So therefore it is much less stress knowing there are less things to break.

I suppose the original intent of my post is until there is a standardized charge system in place that is convenient for everyone and you can charge up the EV in about the same amount of time you can fuel up an ICE? The "general public" is not ready to exclusively switch to a pure EV.

Once again, if I sounded like I was against EV's or Teslas in general, that was the furthest thing that I was trying to convey. And I apologize if that is the way it came across.

 

Closer to good. Still fugly.

why nobody makes a RC EV is beyond me.

 

It is true that at some point new ICE vehicles will no longer exist. Legacy ICE vehicles will outlive all of us that are on the planet today I'm sure. I've built a few 22RE engines (one being the pic from my avatar), good times and great exposure to mechanics. I love working on those projects. Truth is though, those days are already in the past even with ICE. You need laptops, programing, and expensive subscriptions for many parts of automotive engine work now.

I agree on the loss of the manual. I never had an auto my entire life until having a family caused me to go to 4 door trucks, which were initially not available in a manual. But again, it is ICE that is killing the manual. True that EVs also don't have a manual, but they are not responsible for its demise. Personally I really enjoy the 1 pedal driving, though 3 pedals is certainly better. I love a good exhaust note as much as the next motor head, but the older I get and the more I see guys with loud cars down on the waterfront, the more it seems like a cry for attention. Obviously not true for all, and it is fun to hear the engine roar in acceleration, but there is also a bliss in the Tesla near-silence.

Tesla's charging network is valued higher than many entire automotive corporations, it is the Tesla charging network that truly unlocks the potential of the EV. If it is not a Tesla, it will currently be more limited, yes. This was a major deciding factor in buying a Tesla for myself. There are high speed 3rd party chargers, but they do not have the prevalence or reliability of the Tesla system, and the Tesla system is fully integrated with the Tesla cars. The cars know the chargers, how many are in use, the wait times if needed, navigate anywhere and the car will automatically route you to the most optimal charger if needed, and will tell you exactly how long you need to charge to minimize charge time. It is a fully integrated system with no thought required from the driver about charging, nothing like other brands relying on 3rd party chargers that the cars don't know about, that is extremely primitive like ICE cars and gas stations.

As for self driving, you can use it or leave it. Mine has Autopilot, which is good for highway self driving without automatic lane changes. I bought the car to drive it, not have it drive me, so I have no interest in the more elaborate self driving options. But in grid lock stop and go traffic for extended periods of time, it is really nice to have the option to just tell the car to deal with the BS and automate the process.

Valid points on the Rivian. I do wheel my trucks, so off road use was intended. One of the concerns I had (back to the charging points) is we usually drive 1/2 way across the state before hitting the trail head, where we head out for multiple days. Since it isn't a Tesla, the availability for high speed charging in remote areas is extremely limited. I didn't see how I could charge the truck before hitting the trail for multiple days without driving out there a day in advance and spending the night in town to put the truck on an overnight charger. Buying the M3P and the 1st Gen was cheaper than the Rivian, the Tesla offers a better EV platform and better daily driver while the Tacoma offers benefits of ICE if needed. Plus it gives me that older school vehicle to still wrench on and maintain.

EV maintenance costs are basically non-existent. If you think your Mercedes is bad, you should see my POS Jeep.

Nearly every automotive brand, including the 3rd party chargers, have abandoned the current CCS charging standard and adopted the NACS Tesla charger plug for 2025. If this includes Tesla opening up its superchargers to those brands with the native Tesla plug, those charger limitations will no longer be a thing.

 

Through the Plugshare app I found the hotel right next to my vacation condo has free L2 charging at 48A, which I knew before but I recently discovered via comments in the app that there is no need to be a guest at the hotel to use the charger. I went in and talked to the front desk to confirm and they were just happy to provide free charing for those driving EVs regardless if staying there. It was a standard L2 J1772 charger, requiring the J1772 to Tesla adapter that Tesla includes for free with the car purchase. Only the 2nd time in almost a year I've used the adapter.


2 blocks from my vacation condo another business has 2 free Tesla 40A chargers, also discovered via Plugshare. I made sure to go in and purchase things from the business and talk to them about the chargers. They are also offered for free to the public to support EVs, no purchase necessary.


With a little bit of research and understanding the local charging situation, I'll no longer be supercharging on my longest semi-regular drive. What would have cost me $150+ in gas in my Tacoma cost me $5 in charging at home plus $5 in unnecessary supercharging on the way over because I was unsure of what the charging landscape would look like.

My vacation condo in a small town has always had limited recycling, only recycling aluminum. For whatever reason, they now stopped all recycling. As an engineer that has taken courses in materials, I am incapable of throwing away aluminum. Can't do it, Engineers don't throw away aluminum. It is a high value recyclable with infinite recycling cycles with no properties loss and costs next to nothing to recycle to something new vs high raw resource extraction cost. In the Tacoma I'd save all the cans in a trash bag and throw them in the bed tied to the bike rack for the drive home. In the Tesla I put that trash bag in the frunk, which was the first use I've had of the frunk.

On the day we were leaving massive smoke had rolled in from fires somewhere around the area. "Activate Bio-weapons defense" made the drive so much nicer, scrubbing all the smoke out of the cabin air.

The car is a lot of fun to drive on the 2 lane mountain pass highway, the explosive passing power is exceptionally useful and can't help but put a smile on your face.

 

Rivian is supposedly one those brands adopting the Tesla charging standard by 2025. A black R1S might be fun to fart around with for a year or two.

 

I’ve got the wife’s Tesla set up to fart on demand. It’s good to have options when trying to navigate a tourist town in the summer.

 

All valid points.

My original intent was (and will remain) until there is a charging network in place for all EV's, they will not be widely adopted until you can stop anywhere (just like a normal fuel station) and charge it up in about the same amount of time that an ICE can be fueled up without having to have an adaptor. I understand the benefits that Tesla has over every other EV in the marketplace right now. Tesla was the first and now every other manufacturer is playing catch up with Tesla. So if Tesla's charging network is the one that every other manufacturer needs to conform to instead of having their own proprietary charger, so be it. Tesla was first to the marketplace with setting up a nationwide charging network and should reap the benefits of doing so. But it's going to take a much larger nationwide charging network to change peoples mind.

The demise of the manual transmission was more of an aside. The ICE didn't kill the manual. The horsepower war and chasing the quickest 0 - 60 time possible did. And the manufacturers were to blame for that. Double clutch transmissions are far superior to a manual for instantaneous upshifts and downshifts. But it seems during this battle over who could make the fastest car with the most horsepower, they forgot the true joy of being engaged with the entire driving process. Porsche seems to be one of the only ones left that understand what the driving experience should be (even though their PDK is renowned for being an amazing transmission). The horsepower wars are over. Hell... Most of the speed wars are over also. No car on the road can beat a Tesla Plaid off the line (and usually through the quarter mile) unless it is another EV such as Lucid (or if you really want to go stupid, the Remac).

You spent quite a lot of time espousing the benefits of a Tesla and I won't refute any one of your points. And I'm not knocking your take on Tesla. You own one and you know everything to know about that brand and what it is capable of doing. Without owning a Tesla myself, I can see the Benefits. But I don't want a Tesla. If I "personally" had a choice, I'd buy a Lucid Air. But you did bring up the charging issue with the Rivian. And that, I think is my point. You saw that the charging network is not as robust and all the hoops you would have to jump through just to get your truck to a place where you could wheel it. And until there is a nationwide system in place that everyone can use, you see the downside of anything that is not a Tesla.

I won't be adopting an EV until later. But I eventually will. But it will take a more robust nationwide charging network than what is in place right now. Tesla has everyone beat right now. But, for better or worse, the government will eventually have to step in to expand the charging stations with a standardized connection. If Tesla happens to be that standard, so be it because Tesla deserves to have that since they are so far ahead of that aspect of the EV marketplace.

 

On the charging network, yes. Tesla knew this was an chicken vs egg problem and so it built both, creating by far the best charging network in the US and then fully integrated it with the cars so range anxiety just isn't a thing, the car knows so you don't have to think about it. In other brands you'll need to figure this out on your own, as they do not have a proprietary network to talk to, and this is where range anxiety comes in. The Tesla charging network is also significantly more reliable and in better operating condition than 3rd party brands. This could be because Tesla owners highly value the Tesla charging network and view it as an extension of their car Brand therefore treat it better or that Tesla is more responsive to charging maintenance being that the cars can tell the charger operation before arriving, regardless it is a huge EV asset that other brands do not have. In Feb of 2023 a Fed $7.5B infrastructure package was passed to build out the EV charging network along the nations highways. That package plus most all EV brands switching to the Tesla NACS plug is going to rapidly expand charger availability in the next few years.

As with any new technology, there is competition for standardization. VHS vs BetaMax. The charging plug standard is no different. There were 3, then 2, now 1 is on the horizon. CHAdeMO fell out of favor first, leaving CSS + J1772 (J1772 for L2) and Tesla's NACS (North America Charging Standard). Tesla open-sourced the NACS plug allowing all manufactures to use its superior proprietary design free of charge to advance adoption. Most brands have dumped the way oversized/bulky CSS for the much more elegant and compact NACS. Many brands are rolling out with NACS plugs in their EVs in 2025 and till then some are offering adapters. Adapters are not a big deal, one of the most common is J1772->NACS, it is compact and included with a Tesla to expand L2 charging options. For EVs it is all about options. Typically you carry a mobile charger with you as well, allowing you to plug into any 110v outlet, again because options.



The J1772 adapter is what I used to charge here. In 10 months of owing the car I've used the adapter twice. First time was because I didn't understand the capabilities of the car and paid for charging unnecessarily out of unreasonable range anxiety.


I had to use the adapter as I was not at a Tesla brand charger.


It is worth noting that while Tesla is opening up its supercharging network to non-Teslas, those non-Teslas will pay a premium for the service. The kWh ratings are higher if you are charging a different make. In the big picture though, costs are so small if you charge at home. I only supercharge when traveling across the state to add a nice buffer in my destination location, even now I'm realizing that it isn't necessary. There is a learning curve for sure, which keeps many away. Tesla's charging network is as much of the car buying decision process as the car itself. If Tesla opens it up widely to other brands, those brands will likely see decent growth, and Tesla will tax them at a premium for the Supercharger network use.

L3 charging availability is one part of the Rivian shortcoming, but also don't overlook battery sizes when shopping EVs which was as much of a decision killer as the lack of charing availability. Lucid's are pretty sweet, been seeing a lot more lately typically a few a week now. Compared to the Model S they have longer range, but they are also ~500lbs heavier with ~18% larger batteries. Heavier cars have less ideal handling characteristics and larger batteries have longer charging times. With Lucid they have longer range with the larger batteries whereas Rivian had the same range/shorter range (truck vs car though) with larger batteries compared to a Tesla. Everyone says they want quick charging, but the larger the battery, the longer the charge time and the heavier the car meaning more power use to move the car. It's a bit of a sliding scale and one must determine where on the scale is best for them.

On the transmission front, I'd agree, chasing specs led to the demise of the manual, plus when various autos started also returning better mpgs than manuals, and were faster while also having more gears, it makes it a compelling choice. Consumer and brands got lost in chasing specs vs enjoying the car. While not Porsche caliber, the Miata is another that has catered to the driving experience.

 

So I took the car in today for the bumper replacement, hood repair and passenger side headlight replacement (DRL failure). Remember how I mentioned bringing all the cans back in the frunk? Well I kinda forgot about them, because I never use the frunk. Then after dropping the car off I saw in the app that the hood was opened/removed and remembered what was in there...

 

My brother in law asked me which EV he should buy. I said "let me think about this for a minute. First I'd look at Tesla. Second, check out Tesla. And, if you don't like either one of those, give Tesla a try." In August 2023 there is only one choice if you plan to road trip in an EV and that is Tesla. My last road trip was 9,100 miles over 5 weeks and 68 Supercharger stops. Not once was there any kind of line for a charger. We will see what happens when other manufacturers can use superchargers.

 

Thats a long video. Cliff notes? (Aside from the Tesla winning.)

If you are road tripping, definitely Tesla because of the charger network. It is also worth noting for long trips that Teslas use heat pumps for cabin heating/cooling, vs most if not nearly all other EVs use resistance heaters and air conditioners. While the heat pumps can reduce 20% of your range in cold climates, the resistance heaters can cost a 40% range penalty. Rivian announced it would switch to heat pumps in at some point in the future.