EV news. Hybrid News. A Path Forward.

True. Let's say each rig drilled 20 new wells, at that rate you'd need to continually add +2000 new drill rigs every year. Point being there is a cost either way, people like to point out the cost of EVs while glossing over the cost of continuing with ICE.

Strip mining certainly isn't good, though not all mining is strip mining. But as your own article points out, as EVs become more mainstream, so will EV battery recycling, which will reduce the need for new raw materials as the materials can be reused, unlike fossil fuels that are burned and released into the atmosphere as a pollutant with no possibility of reuse. But again, even with mining factored in BEV is scientifically proven to be better than continuing to use ICE over the life of the vehicle. There area also countless oil disasters that destroy the environment, the millions of uncapped wells in the US alone emitting methane into the atmosphere that is 80x+ worse than CO2 for green house gasses. The oil industry is doing its fair share to destroy the planet, but people have largely just accepted and normalized it.

I'd suggest trying to stay on the EV topic rather than continually deflecting. Yeah, residential HVAC is another issue, but this thread isn't about residential HVAC. Progressive areas are already tackling the HVAC issue as well. There are 1000s of issues, there is no silver bullet, it is all about incremental improvements for the better across the spectrum.

Again you are passing off your opinion as fact, when that is scientifically and factually incorrect. You can not like it and disagree with it, but it is scientifically shown to be better overall over the lifecycle of the vehicle.

 

Yes, that may be true for A SINGLE well, but as crash said there are Forty THOUSAND drilled annually.

Bottom line, even before looking at the wells themselves, the damage from oil spills exceeds the environmental damage from lithium mining. Don't forget we also have not talked about shale, oil sands, fracking, or the other ways of getting oil. You mention Pitcher, maybe look up Athabasca
Canada.



The below chart is oil spills in just the last ten years. The last numerical value is for max tonnes spilled, one tonne is 1165 liters, ONE liter contaminates upwards of a million gallons of seawater.

As a reminder, this is only ten years, there have been over 200 spills since just 1980.

Folks think EVs are bad because they are just now hearing about their environmental impact, of which yes there is one. However if they took that same critical look at oil they would be surprised...


Spill / Vessel Location Dates Min Tonnes Max Tonnes Owner Link(s)
Lennard en z'n 9000 United Kingdom,Wytch Farm,Poole Harbour,Dorset 26 March 2023 6 Perenco [1]
2023 Princess Empress oil spill Philippines,Pola, Oriental Mindoro 28 February 2023 881 881 RDC Reield Marine Services [2]
2022 Keystone Pipeline oil spill United States,Washington County, Kansas 7 December 2022 18,516.94 18,516.94 TC Energy [3]
2022 Cheshire oil truck rollover United States,Cheshire, Connecticut 11 February 2022 62.98 62.98 Libretti and Sons Fuel [4]
2022 Callao oil spill Ventanilla District,Callao,Peru 15 January 2022 1,626.39 1,861.68 Repsol [5]
2021 New Orleans oil spill United States,St. Bernard Parish, Louisiana 27 December 2021 944.11 944.11 PBF Energy [6][7]
2021 Orange County oil spill United States,Orange County, Californiashoreline 1 October 2021 424.42 424.42 Amplify Energy [8][9]
2021 Mediterranean oil spill/Emerald[a] Israel, Lebanon,Mediterraneanshoreline 11 February 2021 Emerald Marine Ltd[11] [12]
Chevron Richmond Refinery United States,Richmond, California 9 February 2021 1.9 1.9 Chevron Corporation [13]
2020 Colonial Pipeline oil spill United States,North Carolina,Huntersville 14 August 2020 63,000 63,000 Colonial Pipeline [14][15]
El Palito Refinery Venezuela, Golfo Triste 8 August 2020 2,700 2,700 Petróleos de Venezuela [16]
2020 Pointe D'Esny
MVWakashiooil spill Mauritius, Ile Aux Aigrettes andMahébourg 25 July 2020 1,300 4,300 Wakashio Suisan Company Limited, Kagoshima, Japan [17][18]
Trans Mountain oil spill Canada,British Columbia,Abbotsford 14 June 2020 118.5 184.87 Trans Mountain [19]
Norilsk diesel fuel spill Russia,Norilsk,Krasnoyarsk Krai 29 May 2020 17,500 17,500 Nornickel [20][21]
Tanker truck pumping out sludge from a vessel New Zealand,Tauranga,Bay of Plenty 30 March 2020 1.7 1.7 [22][23]
T.G. Williams Well No. 1 tank battery United States, Texas, Oakland Creek, Longview 30 March 2020 unknown unknown Fortune Resources [24]
Greka Energy oil facility United States, California,Santa Maria 30 March 2020 Greka [25]
True Oil pipeline United States,North Dakota, Red Wing Creek 27 March 2020 unknown unknown True Oil LLC [26]
Tanker truck rollover United States,California,Santa Maria,Cuyama River 21 March 2020 14.6 19.5 [27][28]
Keystone Pipeline2019 spill United States,North Dakota,Walsh County, North Dakota 29 October 2019 1,240 1,240 TransCanada Corporation [29]
Willowton Oil South Africa,KwaZulu-Natal, nearPietermaritzburgandDurban August 2019 unknown unknown Willowton Group [30]
North East Brazil oil spill(suspected source:NM Bouboulina) Brazil, 733 km fromParaiba 29 July 2019 unknown unknown Delta Tankers Ltd. [31]
Guarello Islandiron ore export terminal diesel spill Chile,Guarello Island,Magallanes Region 27 July 2019 35.4 35.4 Compañía de Acero del Pacífico [32][33]
MV Chrysanthi Sbunkering spill at sea South Africa,Algoa Bay,Port of Ngqura 6 July 2019 0.2 0.4 SA Marine Fuels (bunkering service company) [34][35]
MVSolomon Traderfuel oil spill Solomon Islands,Rennell Island 5 February 2019 75 80 South Express Ltd [36][37]
SeaRose FPSOproduction ship spill Canada,St. John's, Newfoundland and Labrador 16 November 2018 219 219 Husky Energy [38][39]
Ulysse-Virginiacollision North ofCorsica(international waters) October 2018 [40]
Port Erindiesel spill (source unknown) Isle of Man 23 July 2018 unknown unknown unknown [41]
Doon, Iowa derailment United States,Lyon County, Iowa 22 June 2018 520 520 BNSF Railway [42]
Sanchioil tanker collisionwithCF Crystal East China Sea 6 January 2018 138,000 138,000 National Iranian Tanker Company [43]
Keystone Pipeline2017 spill United States,Marshall County, South Dakota 16 November 2017 1,322 1,322 TransCanada Corporation [44]
Delta House floating production platform spill United States,Gulf of Mexico, nearLouisiana 11 October 2017– 12 October 2017 1,080 1,280 LLOG Exploration [45][46]
Agia Zoni II Greece,Saronic Gulf,Salamis 10 September 2017 2,500 2,500 Fos Petroleum SA [47]
East River insulating oil spill United States,New York 7 May 2017 97 101 Con Edison [48]
Energy Transfer PartnersDakota Access Pipeline Leak United States,North Dakota 4 April 2017 0.27 0.27 Energy Transfer Partners [49]
Ennore oil spill India,Chennai,Ennore Port 28 January 2017 251 251 Darya Shipping Solutions [50][51][52]
Belle Fourche pipeline leak United States,North Dakota,Billings County,Ash CouleeCreek 5 December 2016 571 571 Belle Fourche Pipeline Company [53]
Fox Creek pipeline leak Canada,Alberta,Fox Creek 6 October 2016 240 240 Trilogy Energy [54]
BP Clair production platform, North Sea United Kingdom,Shetland, Clair platform 2 October 2016 105 105 BP [55]
2016 Colonial Pipeline leak United States,Shelby County, Alabama 12 September 2016 1,092 1,092 Colonial Pipeline Co [56]
North Battleford pipeline spill Canada,Saskatchewan,North Battleford 21 July 2016 170 210 Husky Energy [57]
ConocoPhillips Canada pipeline spill Canada,Alberta,Grande Cache 9 June 2016 323 323 ConocoPhillips [58]
2016 Union Pacific oil train fire United States,Oregon,Mosier 3 June 2016 152 152 Union Pacific Railroad [59]
Denbury ResourcesBowman County Oil SPill United States,North DakotaBowman County 18 May 2016 44 44 Denbury Resources [60]
Shell Gulf of Mexico oil spill, Brutus offshore platform United States,Gulf of Mexico, nearLouisiana 12 May 2016 316 316 Royal Dutch Shell [61]
Keystone Pipeline2016 spill United States,Menno, South Dakota 2 April 2016 55 55 TransCanada Corporation [62]
Refugio oil spill United States,California, nearRefugio State Beach 19 May 2015 330 330 Plains All American Pipeline [63]
MVMarathassabunker fuelspill Canada,British Columbia,English Bay (Vancouver) 13 April 2015 2.3 2.3 Alassia NewShips Management Inc. [64]
Illinois train derailment United States,Illinois, nearGalena 5 March 2015 1,300 1,300 BNSF Railway [65]
2015 Yellowstone River oil spill United States,Montana, nearGlendive 17 January 2015 41 160 Bridger Pipeline LLC [66][67]
Black Sea oil pipeline spill Russia,Tuapse, nearBlack Sea 24 December 2014 unknown unknown Transneft [68]
2014 Israeli oil spill Israel,Eilat,Trans-Israel pipeline 6 December 2014 1,948 4,300 Eilat Ashkelon Pipeline Company [69]
Mid-Valley Pipeline United States,Louisiana,Mooringsport 13 October 2014 546 546 Sunoco [70]
Lake Michigan oil spill United States,Indiana,Whitingrefinery 24 March 2014 2 5 BP [71][72][73]
MVMiss Susan/MVSummer Wind United States,Texas,Houston Ship Channel 22 March 2014 546 546 Kirby Corporation [74][75]
North Dakota pipeline spill United States,North Dakota, Hiland 21 March 2014 110 110 Hiland Crude LLC [76]
North Dakota train collision United States,North Dakota, Casselton 30 December 2013 1,300 1,300 BNSF Railway [77]
Bullenbaai Curaçao,Bullenbaai, Isla refinery 1 November 2013 unknown unknown Petróleos de Venezuela [78]
North Dakota pipeline spill United States,North Dakota,Tioga 25 September 2013– 29 September 2013 2,810 2,810 Tesoro [79][80]
Rayong oil spill Thailand,Rayong/Ko Samet,Gulf of Thailand 27 July 2013 43 163 PTT Global Chemical [81][82]
Lac-Mégantic derailment Canada,Québec,Lac-Mégantic 6 July 2013 4,830 4,830 [83]
Cushing storage terminal United States,Oklahoma,Cushing 18 May 2013 340 340 Enbridge Energy Partners [84][85]
Mayflower United States,Arkansas,Mayflower 30 March 2013 680 950 ExxonMobil [86]
Magnolia refinery United States,Arkansas,Magnolia 9 March 2013 680 760 Delek Logistics [87][88]

 

Havent checked in inna minute. How bout that tesla truck thing? Its actually small when it is by a normal car. And if you ask me it resembles a pontiac tran-sport

 

The same bill that provided the EV tax breaks that may are so upset by also included tax benefits for switching to more energy efficient devices intended to reduce consumption. This included induction stove tops, more efficent doors and windows, and also included HVAC iirc. The big one from this is heat pump water heaters which can SIGNIFICANTLY reduce energy consumption. Oh, and these tax rebates were also targeted towards the lower income as well.

 

Same designer?

 

The cybertruck is like having one glass and its completely full of cheap whiskey. A ton of potential in one space but hard to swallow.

 

the rigs take up much less of a footprint than the mining operation will. rigs are mobile and can be moved wherever the oil is found. a lot of the time the rig not even need be moved, but new conductors added to the existing rig. the wells are usually spaced anywhere from 4 to 8ft apart and can provide hundreds of thousands of barrels per well

 

not true, jack up rigs exist.

 

It's like EV are the Pintos of the 21st century.
https://www.wkrn.com/news/local-new...nklin-requires-thousands-of-gallons-of-water/

 

ohhh it is all horrible.

Stay on topic!? Well that is no fun! Not really deflecting, just how my mind works, mention one thing then bunches of other subjects and ideas flash into my head. The push for EVs is mainly being done to try and control climate change, so if you’re gonna talk about one potential thing and how it affects the environment, we should be talking about it all. There is one common denominator in all this, it is us. As unpopular as it is, if we got rid of humans, and all of these man-made problems will go away. Some of our creations will linger for thousands of years afterwards if we suddenly disappeared from the Earth, but surely life would rebound. We can continue to piss and moan on what the best way is to go about things, but all we are doing is rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

There is an old quote, “if all insects would happen to suddenly disappear, all life on earth would parish, if all humans would suddenly disappear all life would thrive.”


It isn’t only technology that is killing the planet, thousands upon thousands of years ago Megafauna thrived on the Continent of Australia, 90% of became extinct soon after the arrival of humans according to the fossil record. Humans are like a plague, we destroy everything we touch.

https://www.pnas.org/doi/abs/10.1073/pnas.0801360105#:~:text=On the Australian mainland, 90,human colonization of the continent.

 

lol!

and if you’re in Idaho.

 

I don’t hate it. Always loved the illustrations of Syd Mead.

Could never own one though, little to techno bro for me…that and kinda against giving money to Musk. His parents and the government already gave him plenty! lol!

 

Hopefully we'll see some of that parried by the recent surge in working from home. My company has always been forward thinking with that, it's been allowed since the mid 2000s depending on the particular role/person. All but about 150 of our 4000 people got mandated spring of 2020..those who didn't were people like mail room folks, just one example. I know I do under 10K a year versus 15K a year miles now on my truck.

 

There are different impacts from the two types of environmental pollution though. Combustion engine gas emissions contribute to global atmospheric changes that have a carry on effect to global temperature changes and major shifts in ocean currents. These effects are much greater than the more localized results of extensive mining and resource removal from the earth. Neither is good but it really circles back to the lesser of two evils comparison. With battery powered EVs and sufficient recycling of materials (both battery and chassis) it is possible to reuse a substantial portion of material without extracting more from the earth. With oil once it’s used it’s gone and more must be extracted, a never ending pollution cycle.

 

If the money to be made is in the mining extraction and refining of a resource, battery production is the refining process of li ion batteries. The recycling of that product is not going to see much traction. Yeah there's a video of a guy in a hard hat standing in front of a conveyor belt of old power tool batteries. I guess that means EV batteries are all being recycled.

Edit

Li ion batteries will probably be burned to dispose of them in the future. Cheaper and efficient always wins in the end.

 

Actually, it is the exact opposite. That means money is being left on the table in terms of recycling potential. The more costly a material is to mine, the more valuable it is to recycle. Why dig out an entire mountain and pay all the overhead when someone can hand you high density purified content directly to you. It’s a very easy problem to solve in the grand scale of things.

 

Solving problems? How many successful businesses are in it to slove a problem? Nobody is investing in oil extraction or mining to solve a problem. Solving the problem is just good marketing, and the byproducts of creating wealth.

 

Money is being left on the table. Figuring out how to tap into that is the problem solving. It is capitalism.

 

I'm sure there's room for recycling operations, the market will decide how successful they are. I can't pretend that EV exist to keep battery recyclers open.

 

Another Nikola fire? 2nd one this week.

https://ktar.com/story/5537473/anot...fire-at-nikola-motor-headquarters-in-phoenix/