Freedom Offroad UCA's causing camber issue

I figured with only ~2.5" of lift there would be enough adjustability, but this just wasn't the case. I decided to switch to spc light racing uca's. Now running ~3.5" lift and could make my tires go negative if I wanted.

 

Part of my issue was the LCA's. I had bought new ones from the local parts store. The dang left one was just over half an inch shorter than the Toyota ones. So I returned them and installed White Line bushings in the original LCA. Now they are both right at 0 degrees. I was wanting slightly negative camber but I put maybe 1300 miles a year on this truck so at this point I will just roll with it instead of spending another several hundred more on another set of UCA's.

 

Looks like that’s what they’ll be telling me as well. I put the freedom offroad UCAs on before my trip back in March. I’m having another alignment done now so I can send it to them. They market their UCAs for 2-4” of lift, I’m at 3”.

 

Let me know what they tell you once you send the alignment to them. They do market for 2-4 inches of lift but they dont claim to correct for camber deficiencies. I will say I do have a little more clearance and it seems to handle a little better. But if you need more camber adjustment, these just wont fit the bill like the more expensive ones. Still curious as to what they say though.

 

I’ve gone back and forth with them quite a few times now via email. All they keep saying is that they don’t adjust for camber or caster.

I finally got frustrated and said had I known these are basically OEM arms I would’ve never bought them. They only slightly change the angle of the ball joint for less wear on it.

It’s unfortunate that they advertise for 2-4” of lift and I’m dead in the middle at 3” yet nothing is lining up properly. I feel it’s a little misleading/false advertising on their part.

 

Lol they didn't touch the camber bolts

"Set the toe n go"

 

This thread pushes my buttons on so many levels...

 

I want to bump this thread with a nearly identical case to keep them documented together, despite the last reply being just over two years ago.

I recently purchased and installed and OME ARB suspension kit and Freed Off Road upper control arms. Just today I received the truck from the alignment shop and this is "the best" they could do. Their argument was that they had to sacrifice caster to keep the camber within reason for the sake of tire longevity. My internal retort was, "My tires don't wear if I don't drive the truck because the handling isn't predictable..." Now the truck isn't safe to drive (handling is horrendous with negative caster) and it cost me $183 to make it worse than it was.

I have inquired with Freedom Off Road directly and the retailer I purchased all my parts through. I will come back with updates as soon as I hear back. If no one wants to voluntarily play ball and take ownership for a faulty product, I'll be contesting charges and pursuing them financially. I have zero tolerance for the automotive industry ripping people off. Except for tire installs, this is the first work I've decided to pay to have done in over a decade and it's already a nightmare lol. For now, here is a pic of my alignment before and after.

 

Can you get pictures of the lower control arm cams?

 

Absolutely; I will post some shortly. On a very positive note, Freedom Off Road responded to me first thing Tuesday morning (after the holiday weekend) and informed me they were sending a replacement set of arms. So far, that's a fantastic display of customer service. They should arrive today so I will get pics of the current alignment cam positions, the 'old-new' UCA's, the 'new-new' UCA's, then a pic of my final alignment cam positions and their respective measurements when my alignment tools arrive (could be a week or two since I'm waiting on the arrival of a promotional credit card to put the purchase on).

We'll see what change they've made to the arms to correct the alignment limitation. I'm assuming the arms just need to be shorter from mounting bolt to ball joint. There was lots of room for caster adjustment on either side of my truck but it would have sent camber to the moon. I have decided to purchase alignment tools to do the job myself since I have -for good reason- 'trust issues'. lol

 

I haven't had the pleasure of trying Freedom Offroad UCA's.
I did Camburg, Total Chaos and Light Racing (Now SPC)
Most of them don't understand the Problem. They just try and fix the Symptoms. Which in turn causes more problems.

Keep us posted on what you figure out about FO?

 

Toku58, it sounds like you've tried quite a few! Here are the alignment cams as of the truck returning from Firestone:

Rear Passenger


Front Passenger

Rear Driver

Front driver


Some observations:
I had dropped off the truck with all the alignment cams dead center and that almost yielded symmetrical measurements (per the before/after alignment sheet on my prior post). That tells me I can (probably -and safely-) just use the alignment chart in the factory manual and set the cams accordingly. Then, when my alignment tools show up I can double check it with more precision. I received the updated UCA's today so I'm about to go install those. Be back soon...

 

Well I got my hopes up... The 'corrected' arms they sent are identical to the originals. I removed one of the originals and compared it off the truck with great scrutiny to one of the 'corrected' ones: no visual or measurable difference. Because of this, I did not install the 'corrected' arms. All it should take is to shorten the arm up about .25"-.5". It shouldn't be rocket science to get a fixed-mounted control arm length dialed in. I shot Freedom Off Road an email to let them know and I'll update here with their response when they get back to me.

 

It's really not "Rocket science" what it sounds like is FO Design are based off stock replacement.
It doesn't sound like they intended it to be used with a lift.

Compare them to the stock UCA's and see if they match the geometry of the OEM arms.

I would and always recommended SPC UCA's. (Sure they have their short comings) They all do in that price range. Icon make high end fully adjustable UCA's and so do other companies but you will pay a premium.
SPC Would be the best bang for your buck!
I have no "Skin in the game" I recommend them because they are good. I get nothing out of it.

RockAuto sells them at the Best price you can find under their product name "Mevoteck" They are vendors here. Contact them and they will get you set up!

 

To clarify, when I said 'original' arms in my last post, I was talking about the initial arms that Freedom Off Road sent me. They definitely intended them to be used with a lift because they advertise them to be used in conjunction with a 2" to 4" lift to correct ball joint angle "while maintaining factory alignment specifications." That being said, I agree with you that NONE of these companies are putting in the suspension geometry engineering design that they must in order to sell adequate parts. I'm about ready to build a fixture myself and start selling some real arms at a better price lol.

Here's cliff notes of the response I received today:

-The customer service has no idea what the difference is between the arms they sent me initially and currently (and apparently aren't willing to find out for me)
-They (the rep who is communicating with me) are assuming the difference is internal to the ball joint (this will have absolutely zero impact on alignment...WT[insert your preferred letter of choice here; mine is F!]???)
-I am now being instructed to return them and get my money back if they don't make a difference. (I already know they won't, so I will; see below)
-They are telling me they haven't had any issues after sending out new arms. (This isn't physically possible so I'm not sure what's out there to validate this)
-I was sent an alignment sheet of their test vehicle (I am emphasizing that they only tested these arms on ONE 4Runner...). They apparently got this one vehicle into spec.

So. Frustrating.

The following photos display my measurement of the length of the OEM arms as compared to the Freedom Off Road arms. Keep in mind that less UCA length equals a global shift in the camber adjustment range towards negative infinity (i.e. my current range of camber adjustment is +2° to +6° and it should probably be -2° to +2° so it needs a global shift of -4°). To reduce camber globally, we need a shorter aftermarket UCA to stay within alignment spec via the OEM adjustment cams.

Side by side visual comparison:


The grid is 1" in both axes:


The Freedom Off Road UCA is about 0.5" longer, just as I was anticipating. The difference in length however was not the center of the balljoint mount in plane with the UCA, it was the additional outward angle of the Freedom Off Road ball joint mount. I believe they didn't account for the additional outward angle pushing the upper part of the knuckle outward with respect to the centerline of the vehicle. Ultimately, if their arm was .5" shorter it would be identical in geometry to the OEM arm and it would have the corrected ball joint angle to accommodate a higher ride height.

Ultimately, I'll be returning these. There is absolutely no difference between the two sets of arms that Freedom Off Road sent me. For anyone considering these arms, I would not recommend this product. For an oversight so simple as the overall geometry, I'd consider that to be a pretty elementary mistake for their engineering. What I don't understand is how others have (supposedly) managed to achieve an alignment within spec. I don't know of anyone who has successfully installed and aligned these. If there is someone, please share your results!

My credentials for arriving at this conclusion: I don't claim to be an expert, but I hold a BSME and have 15 years of experience working on vehicles, 1.5 years as an intern with a race support/custom performance shop, and two years involved in FSAE (look it up if you aren't familiar; it's a badass collegiate formula racing competition for schools to "design, build, and compete").

I hope this is helpful to other folks. Im fortunate enough to have saved my OEM arms and ball joints, and I have a set of poly bushings for them. Once I send both sets of freedom arms back, I'll need my OEM's!