Mozilla vehicle privacy report

No it's not. It's about people being responsible for themselves and their familes. It's about people needing little organization to provide for them. Hopefully there are still people in other places that can still fend for themselves and don't require babysitters.

 

Same with the government. We should allow warrantless wiretapping of everyone to help catch criminals. If you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about.

 

False Equivalence error.

You invited one of the things you are trying to compare into your home, willingly. It is in the terms and conditions when you bought it. Don't like it? Don't buy it. They can't monitor you if you elect not to purchase it.

 

What pisses me off about corporate data collection is that there are no laws requiring any level of security. With medical records we have HIPA.

How long til we find out that Toyota is selling location data to stalkers? Or that they were securing all the data with "password1234"?

Oh wait, it just happened a couple months ago. They had a 'misconfigured" server. https://www.google.com/amp/s/techcrunch.com/2023/05/31/toyota-customer-data-leak-years/amp/

 

This is not a false equivalence fallacy. The only difference is who is gathering the data. The reasoning is still the same.

We're not talking about a play station here.You want to buy a car to be. Functioning member of society? You don't have a choice.

It's the same with credit reports. Equifax had terrible security practice and didn't update Apache Struts. Even when the FBI notified them and they still didn't. 6 months later they lost personal data of millions of Americans. If we simply had data security laws requiring companies to use good security practices, I wouldn't be bitching.

 

You do have a choice. Even in car centric Texas, if I wanted to take the bus, I could take the bus. It would be inconvenient as hell, but I could do it and still make a living. Or I could choose to buy my next car from a private sale and make sure its old enough to not be equipped with telemetry. Or I could strip the head unit and antenna out of a new car.

Of course avoiding data mining is inconvenient. If they didn't make it convenient nobody would sign up for it. But that never makes it impossible. You still have a choice to live without convenience.

 

I literally have no bus where I live. We don't even have school buses. I'm an avid cyclist but even I cant expect to bike up a mountain every time I go to the grocery store. Winter snow will only make it worse.

Buying and old car may be a temporary stop gap but it's not going to last forever. There needs to be another solution.

 

I rode a bus from the Atlanta northern burbs to downtown Atlanta every day for 8 years. It was glorious (usually)!

 

This is what a burner truck looks like.

 

It will last forever. Why? Because people like us will pass on and eventually it will be a common thing that nobody cares about, because nobody will remember today.

 

But yet again you are trading what you say to value for convience. It is entirely possible to keep a 90s vehicle living, and likely costs less than a new car payment. That is inconvient though, so we don't like it.

His point stands, if it is the government then you have not had a choice and you have no power to stop it. If it is a consumer product then you DO have a choice and you CAN stop it, you just don't like that.

 

Does anyone have any actual examples of how they have been violated by this "invasion" of privacy? An actual example.

I hear a lot of fear mongering about how "they" are taking your data, and how that is bad, but I never hear these folks provide any examples of how they were affected.

Yes, privacy is a concern, and when toyota sends me a text message saying that they are voiding my warranty for gps data that shows me stopping at an oil change shop that wasn't on their "approved vendor" list then I will care. But annonomized data with general region data ammortarized with thousands of others that shows how fast the average driver is, how hard they brake, how far they drive, etc...I don't give a crap. And if you can make money off it then great, because I cannot, so make money and lower the cost of my vehicle.

 

J6th mentions are vying to replace ole hitler in terms of comparisons drawn when any discussion goes on long enough.

Edit- and it's equally tiresome.

 

This mornings text from Toyota said that it's common and happens to a lot of men at my age.

 

You don't understand me. I expressed my outrage, and I emailed my state representative. My 2018 Tacoma doesn't have a soldered on sim card but it's only a matter of time before it's too old and expensive to keep running. I really hope society figures this out before then.

 

They exposed customer data between Feb 2015, and May 2023.

As for what they sell,

Geo-location, demographic, financial information, etc.

 

WHAT data? ASL?

Regardless of tracking that can happen. They have all my info just for me to buy my truck.

Geolocation data? As in "Firn was in THIS location at THAT time and bought three large pizzas"?.
Or user TM123456789 traveled approximately 4.7 miles per trip, during daylight hours, at a speed of 35 mph and had an average fuel economy of 16.8 mpg?

People are worried that "they" are getting "our" data. That is just fear mongering.

 

There's nothing there that you aren't already being tracked on, and I bet that everyone here uses other people's data whether they know it or not.

Use the traffic data on Waze or google maps? They get that data by polling the little rectangle that's sitting in everyone's pocket. And yes they also keep metrics on how many phones walk inside a business, at what time, and where are they coming from. They even make that public right there on google maps. "This restaurant is busier than usual." Ever see that message? Guess how they know that.


here's the thing about big data. Its all about wrangling statistics. You are a single data point in a stat that gets fed through a big ass computer, and it all spits out to say that "this zip code will most likely read a flyer that contains a pizza delivery menu," and this group of email addresses will most likely read an ad from Ace Hardware store." It is not about "The individual person known as Soggy Bottom spent one hour and fifteen minutes parked in front of a suspected brothel at 11:18 pm on September 19, lets lower his social credit score by three points, notify his health insurance, and start circulating advertising for adult novelty stores into his feed." Its statistics. Nobody is after the invasion of the individual. There's no money in that.

^^^ I don't like that either. Its not as bad as it feels like, but I still don't like it. Know what I do? I make a mental note of what sneaks past my spam filter, and I remember to not buy that thing. That's far more effective than writing my elected official about something that the data says isn't a hot topic for 92.3% of the active voter base.

 

I thought I saw a GSM modem in my 2016 when I had the dash out. I doubt there is much of an active data connection between your truck and toyota as they'd have to pay for the network usage and for companies that are saving pennies on parts, they're not paying for gratuitous data usage. There's much more interesting information on your smartphone, or even this forum to monetize.

 

Nailed it.

BUT

There are other things this data can be used for that folks may not agree to, i mean specifically agreed to in the terms and conditions. Specifically I am speaking of the patriot act and it's mandates to the commercial companies (and others).
When the commercial companies cannot even report how many TIMES they have been asked for data, that is concerning.

This is why I hate this argument about "my data" being used by those "big bad companies". I have received many times more value from the sharing than the value of "my" data alone. The real issue here is not companies profiting from that data. In fact the current rhetoric almost feels like purposeful misdirection (glances at tinfoil roll, shakes head and whispers "not yet, no not yet")

However, there needs to be strong controls on the security of that data when it is tied to a person, and when it is not. At least SOME level of legal barrier to retrieve the data (a warrant, etc). And although just a year ago I would have laughed at this, but with as close to fascism we recently are/cane, restrictions on profiling from data queries.