HELP!!! Vibration issues from tires / wheels.

Ok, before you say go search this or that... I have. I have read the posts about using the haweka adapter and all that stuff.

Here is the situation:
Truck = 2010 Toyota Tacoma
Purchased = June 2010
Wheels with issue = Toyota OR Wheels & TRD Ivan Stewart

I had the truck 2 or 3 months and took a trip to Louisiana. When I got back in town, I noticed the steering wheel to shake on my 30 mile trek to work.

Facts:
Happens = 55 - 70 mph
Occurrence = Comes and Goes, not 100% all the time more like 40%

I took it took the dealership and had them balance the wheels & tires (1st BALANCE). Well in the process of picking up my truck they found they had chipped the OR wheels. So while that was still being discussed I proceeded to take back my truck and it was still out of balance. So after a week or so, the dealer replaced my wheels with the TRD Ivan Stewart ones and installed my factory tires on them. They proceeded to balance the tires on the new rims (2nd balance).

~ November

Got my truck back and still got the steering wheel shake. I took it back and had the sales manager drive it and confirmed the shake. Brought it in to re-balance (3rd BALANCE). Service manager proceeded to tell me they couldn't keep balancing the tires, so after a discussion with the lead tech he put on these funky weights and only balanced the front two wheels (3.5 BALANCE).

~ December

So I purchased Centramatics for the rear and installed those on the rear. They took care of the vibrations I could feel in the lower back of my seat, but I am still getting vibs in the steering wheel.

~ Now

Had the steering TSB performed and was hoping that would resolve some of the vibs. No such luck.

I decided to go to Discount Tire to get the wheels rebalanced. Needless to say it has gotten worse. I asked them to use the lug finger adapter and they didn't. I had to remind the guy that he needed to remove the old funky weights, so he decided to use a metal knife and scratch my wheels to get them off.

I talked with the manager and they have offered to fix the clear coat on the wheels. He is also going to have them rebalanced, and he supposedly ordered a new adapter because all the tools in the shop are worn down or broken.


Question:

What do I do? How do I solve this? I drive 60 miles a day almost and the vibrations in the steering wheel drive me nuts.

PLEASE HELP

 

Have you had the wheel alignment checked?

 

Yes. Alignment was performed with the TSB for the steering about a week ago. 1 week before the last wheel balance.

 

BUMP!

 

At this point, I'm just guessing at causes: can you try different tires to see if the tires themselves are the issue? What about other steering and suspension components, do they check out? Could it be a balance issue with the drive shaft? Like I said, I'm just throwing out ideas.

 

I am having the same issue on my stock 2009. I had the tires balanced and aligned about a month ago thinking that this would fix the vibration. I am not sure when it started, but its been at least a year.

I had read a post at one point that said different lug nuts may fix the problem, but I can not seem to find that post anymore.

 

Well... after some research there could always be several culprits but I can only pinpoint a common source.

I have asked the dealership on several occasions and they said the front end is fine. There is nothing loose.

It could be the rims, whether they are lug or hub centric. According to the dealer my Ivan Stewarts are BOTH. The lugs have a conical shape on them to center on the lug and the hub hole is 106mm. So it rules out those pieces.

The only thing left are the TIRES. Apparently the BFGoodrich Rugged Fails that are installed on the truck are garbage.

After talking with the manager at Discount and getting him to personally balance my tires he noticed that both were 3 oz off. He also said I should try and have them Static balanced rather than Dynamic.

So far I have not felt the vibs but I have not taken a long enough trip. I will keep ya'll updated.

 

Do you have any updates on this? I am having similar problems with my Pro Comps and Falken tires. The vibe comes and goes and I think the weather has something to do with it. On warm days, the vibes seem less to almost gone. On cold mornings, the vibes are back. Based on the time line that you provided, it sounds like it's the same with you.

 

Have any of the shops you've taken it to performed a "Road Force" balance on them? This requires a balancer that actually applies pressure using a roller on the tire. It can then determine high spots in the tire or the wheel and side to side movement of the wheel. And, let me add, that just because some shops have Road Force balancers doesn't mean that they actually use them like they were designed or that they know how to use them.

 

Will post my updates soon... Brief overview below

Purchased a brand new set of tires at ~12K. $900 YIKES!
New style of lug nuts
600 mile road trip and lots of opinions

 

I am a "tinkerer" by hobby and my only mission is to help people out. I am very critical of things and I always do my best to try and figure out what the cause of the problem is and then find a solution.​

Pre-face​

Before we go on this journey together let me start by stating a few things:

• THERE IS NO 100% SOLUTION TO THIS PROBLEM!!! It is tough to hear and even tougher to say but it is the sad truth, wait... you can always walk to where ever you are going, then you would never have this problem.​
• Tire Shop/Technician/Installer KNOWLEDGE & COMPETENCY is CRUCIAL!!! The price does NOT always reflect these values. Do your own research before you go to make sure they know what they are talking about.​
• Work with what you have around you. In some areas people do not have access to the same resources as others may.​
• There are many factors and some physics that comes into play here that there is no one solution. What one person's cause of the vibrations may not be someone else's. People go around throwing out all these solutions it is like they are just yelling out colors, "GREEN! / BLUE! / RED!"​

ON with the show:​

So...TIRE BALANCING & VIBRATIONS... is this big lump of smelly gray-matter that is an indescribable pain. It causes much frustration and many headaches.​

Since this topic or area is so problem prone, lets break it down...

There are four main sources, each with factors that can affect tire balance and potentially be the cause of vibrations:​

1. Steering
   
2. Hub
   
3. Wheel
   
4. Tire

1.) Steering:​

• The Tacoma is not a very large truck. It is Toyota's attempt to compete with the small size truck market. The Tacoma has progressively increase in size over the years to stay with the times. The Tacoma does not use the same components that the larger Chevy and Ford trucks do.​
• Because of its size and steering components the Tacoma has a tighter turning radius and more accurate steering. The downside that this causes is the is a ton of FEEDBACK the driver receives through the steering wheel. Every bump, dip, rock, etc. the driver can feel.​
• This direct feedback is why vibration issues are more prevalent or noticeable on Tacomas (some say Dodges have similar feedback issues).​

2.) Hub:​

• The Tacoma actual hub design is probably the largest debated problem area for vibrations.​
• Lug Centric = means that the wheel centers on the hub by using conical lugs. When the lugs are tightened down the conical shape on the lugs helps center the wheel around each stud.​
• Hub Centric = means that the wheel centers on the hub by using the wheel's center bore. When the lugs are tightened down the wheel's center hole slides over the hub's tapered center cylindrical protrusion.​
• The Techs at the dealership say the Tacoma is both HUB & LUG centric. Discount Tire says Tacomas are HUB.​
• Most aftermarket wheels do not automatically come with Tacoma's hub bore diameter. It is easier to make the wheel's center bore larger to fit a wider selection of vehicles. This means most aftermarket wheel manufactures rely on LUG centric.​

3.) Wheels​

• Stock & Aftermarket wheels all have the same factors that affect them but no two are exactly alike.​
• During the machining or forging process, the wheel can develop heavy spots or be ever so slightly out of round.​
• The overall wheel weight can have an ill effect. Too heavy, the rotational mass can not only ruin gas milage and wear down your components (bearings / hub / steering / suspension / CV / tranny / differential etc.) but also magnify any weight differences in the wheel itself and the tire.​
• The physics behind the forces that are put on wheels changes with every wheel design. Weight, Offset & Backspacing can all affect the vibration and feedback felt by the driver.​

4.) Tires​

• Similar to wheels, no two tires are exactly the same.​
• You do not always get what you pay for. Some brands are produced by the same company or share technology but do not share the same quality.​
• A larger or smaller tire is not always better.​
• Physics affect tires similarly to the wheels. Weight, Tread Design & Rubber Compound can affect vibration.​

Conclusion:​

• I guess it all comes down to how much money you want or can afford to spend. While keeping in mind that you will never completely eliminate vibrations issues.
• This is just how the Tacoma is designed. I wished they designed it a little better and chose different components. But you have to come to accept it and choose how you want to deal with it. It is not a case of it being a crappy truck. It is a case of how the truck is built and this is going to happen. You didn't buy a Chevy for a reason, remember...​
• The reasons the vibrations are situational dependant is because there are so many factors that can cause them. YOU MUST DIAGNOSE and RESEARCH what is causing yours before you start throwing a ton of money at it. Some people feel vibrations when stopping, turning, accelerating and just cruising. So many factors you must take notes and understand the components that are being used. Then narrow it down.​
• Now you have to determine if you want to just live with the vibrations or to eliminate every possible source or possibility that may cause or lead to vibrations.​

Resolution:​

​

My problem: Cruising 55-70, vibrations come and go intermittently​

• Steering = They do NOT make a steering damper kit for the Tacoma. This would help reduce any amount of feedback felt through the steering wheel.
  
• Hub = There is not much you can do here. This is just how Toyota built the Tacoma. There are 2 things to help satisfy both HUB & LUG centric issues. 1.) For wheels that the center bore is too large for the hub center, you can purchase a "Hub Centric Ring" adapter. 2.) Conical lug nuts are a must, but in the event the wheel has enough thickness to support them use "Extened Thread" Lug Nuts. The ET lug nuts provide additional shank for the wheel to fit around and remove any additional slop the wheel might have. (Make sure you get the spline drive style as they are skinnier and easily fit a larger variety of wheels)
• Wheels = Get a reputable wheel from a reputable dealer. No wheel will ever come perfect balanced from the factory. After selecting your chosen tire, a good balance is the only way to ensure the least amount of vibration issues.
• Tires = read reviews, ask questions and get to know the mangers of the tire shops. Not every tire is created equal and some brands are known to have less issues than others. Some are just manufactured better than others.

My chosen solution: Do everything possible to help REDUCE the vibrations as much as possible.​

• Purchased a set of Michelin LTX MS2s

Gorilla Extend Thread Lug Nuts.​

They ride nice and have not had many issues with them yet. Took them to Louisiana and back. Still have ever so slight vibrations but they are significantly reduced. I may be replacing the wheels next due to chipping and the tire shop's abuse.​

Nothing can compare to a good tire balance and a tech that knows what he is doing BUT the machine can not detect every variance. You can only get damn close, eliminate evey possibility and move on to another project.​

​

 

Good write-up. You didn't mention, but did they do a Road Force balance on them? I have cured a couple of tire issues over the past couple of years by a shop with a Road Force balancer and a tech that knew how to use it.

 

The only Road Force balancer is at the dealership in my area. And yes I requested they do it the 3 times they balanced my tires. Now do I have proof they did...NOPE. But everytime I got th truck back I still had the intermittanent vibration issues.

So the only thing I can deduce is the Road Force balance did not help my situation.

 

I can tell you from my experience that the Road Force balance only works well, IF the tech uses it correctly. My previous car was a Civic Si sedan. I got new tires and had a balance problem. I watched the tech balance them the 2nd time I went back. As he was balancing a big warning screen popped up that read "excessive road force detected". I asked what that meant. He said "oh, that's nothing". I went and talked to the Manager and he went to the shop and chewed out the tech. Told him that he paid $10,000 for that machine and he better use it correctly. Turned out that one of the tires had a high spot on it. The machine told him to rotate it like 90 degrees. This is why he wanted to ignore the message. It meant more work for him. After it was done correctly my balance problem magically disappeared.

 

Yep, makes logical sense. Most of the discount tires down here are too cheap and won't buy the machine with Road Force balancing. Sure wish they did.