Fourth GEN taco

I’ll take that as a no, you haven’t and are just using inflated hyperbole to justify your nostalgia.

yes, cars are more complex. They also run 100k with nothing but oil changes. Not even a spark plug change. That was the expected lifespan of the simple, rugged cars you pine for. Now it’s a low mileage used example. Complexity came with making everything better, and it’s not just a machining tolerance issue.

I love old cars, that’s why I own my 68 camaro. But to pretend that we should still want that sort of thing is just being blinded by nostalgia and flawed thinking

 

Inflated hyperbole lol ? Cute. Look up the definition.
What I posted were facts that people paid $9000 and quoted $11,000 for repairs. I can link it or you can search it here.
More gizmos, electronics etc mean higher repair bills and labor/parts rates today are ridiculous. Would you put $11,000 in that Camaro for a timing cover leak ?
Adding all this extra stuff on means extra cost initially and down the road. Great the day off the lot, but when the warranty is up yikes.
BTW that increased power on 4G is rated lower than towing on 3G lol. Added power lol.

 

You can also look those problems up and see people paying less than half the numbers you quoted. As I said, hyperbole.

more complexity, but cars have trended toward lower maintenance throughout your whole life. But somehow you still want the old days of tune ups and roadside repairs.

 

Yea at Al's garage. Or Firestone or Pepboys lol ?
These hybrids today are very complex for other garages to work.
Old 4.0 Jeeps, simplistic, went forever no roadside repairs. And many still are. No turbo, no entertainment systems, no hybrid and battery, no million sensors for cafe requirements. Do you really need all that extra stuff ?
Lower maintenance but higher costs.

 

A 100k mile 4.0 jeep is vastly less reliable than a 100k mile 3.5 Tacoma.

And tows less despite all that displacement

 

No way. Vastly lol.
Plus suv vs truck.
With tacos high pressure pump, many more cafe sensors, plastic crossover tube, timing cover leaks ,etc ?
You don't seem to know much about the 4.0's in those Jeeps. They are known as bulletproof. 3.5 is not. Give me ONE known common failure on the 4.0. I had five of them running in my fleet at the same time once. When Chrysler bought Jeep they screwed it up.
Bye for now, I see what I'm dealing with.

 

And yet, here you are daily driving a 3.5l third gen. So weird

 

I'm driving an inflated hyperbole.

 

Why don’t you daily a 4.0l jeep instead?

 

Do you realize when they stopped making them ?
Most have 350K+ and hard to find.
It's NOT today's jeep made by cra*** Chrysler.
If I could find one with reasonable miles it would be, easily.
I really don't think you know anything about them, but quick to comment on it.
The taco I have is as simple as possible and not loaded with turbo and EV. All not really needed which just add cost of today's labor and parts prices. 1st and 2nd gen were even more simple. Will be interesting to see how this complexity plays out in longevity and cost to maintain. IMO it will not be as good.
That was my original point.

 

Complexity has already played out. More power, cleaner burning, and more reliability over the long and short term than the cars of old.

 

This is easily fixed. V8 swap into the 4th gen after the warranty is up.

 

"Complexity has already played out." Not sure what that means.
More parts, more risk, more repairs, more cost.

 

The older motors are definitely easier to work on. Reality is though that certain motors such as V8's are being phased out though. Gone are the older simple motors that a lot of people can work on. You can either roll with the changes or hang out on tacomaworld and complain about them. I see someone on here has already made their choice.

Reliability - I really do not care much about it anymore. Newer vehicles are so much more complex that I do not think I will ever mod another tacoma to the point that certain aspects of my warranty are questionable. I won't keep another tacoma past the warranty period after the 3G. I'm not paying for electric motor and turbo repairs out of pocket and I definitely do not care to learn how it all works together to even attempt to repair it myself. I have too many things going on in life to worry about fixing a complex truck. I do think that newer trucks are more reliable but because of how expensive repairs will likely be I won't risk it.

Bottom line - This whole argument is inflated hyperbole.

 

Except that cars now are more reliable than they’ve ever been

 

I doubt the average Tacoma driver will notice the 500 pound loss in towing capacity. Towing anything over 5k is terrible in these trucks anyway. The low end torque in the new gen will make towing within the 1k-4k range much more enjoyable than the third gen. Toyota was smart not to chase towing capacity numbers. That’s what a full size truck is for. I would gladly take the 1700 pound payload capacity. Not to mention daily drivability

The numbers you quoted for timing cover repair are also way out of line. Nobody is paying that much unless they are getting bent over the barrel. 3-5k is more in line for a timing cover job, if that happens to affect you, most people don’t have that issue, 190k on mine, no sign of any leaks.

Curious on what issues you think the hybrid systems will have. I don’t think you understand how the iforce max system works. If you did you would realize it’s less complex than a modern transmission, and the batteries have been proven in other applications for decades. Just more unfounded panic regarding technology you haven’t done any research on.

 

He has said in the past that he tows ~5k occasionally. One would think that someone pining for a big v8 would understand how much better towing is with peak torque at 1700rpm than with peak torque at 5000rpm

 

The following all taken from https://www.kbb.com/car-news/cars-keep-getting-more-expensive-to-repair/

What I am pointing out....exactly.

The cost of car repairs was up by 19.7% on an annual basis, according to the latest federal consumer price data.

The incredible complexity of modern cars is to blame.

Even a simple windshield replacement can now be a 4-figure repair thanks to embedded sensors and built-in lenses for traffic-scanning cameras.

But EV repairs “lead the way when it comes to automotive complexity, and their repair represents a significant cost delta over vehicles with internal combustion engines.”

Structural batteries make even minor accidents extremely costly.

 

And you have to make those repairs less often because cars are more reliable than they’ve ever been.

nervermind that your data was taken during a time of historic inflation and labor market tightness.

 

Cracked head leaking coolant into cylinders. After sharing that - I agree that the 4.0 is very reliable with generally low maintenance/repair costs. I have a 2000 XJ that does not have a cracked head (yet). My Taco was totaled a few weeks back unfortunately. New one coming in a couple weeks. Surviving with the XJ till then. XJ low band torque with light vehicle is way better off the line than a taco.