LCA advice

Advice on replacing the lower control arms....

Got some new tires mounted yesterday and when the shop was attempting the alignment, they told me they couldn't complete it because:

1. The cam bolts are frozen
2. The bushings are bad

They recommended replacing the LCA, since it is a lot of labor to replace the bushings. Also not sure if this shop has the equipment to do the bushings anyway...

Estimate is around $1k. It's mostly parts-- about $700+tax (high in CA) for the LCA and camber kit.

If this were for an OEM LCA assembly, I wouldn't mind the cost too much. But he told me it's for MOOG parts. (Specifically, the better quality USA-made MOOG parts, since I guess their bottom-tier stuff is made in China these days. But still...)

I've been searching around the forum and it seems like the MOOG are better than other aftermarket, but not as good as OEM. So it seems a little high to me. But then again, I'm not sure where to find OEM parts for this repair...

Thoughts?? Advice? This truck spent most of its life in Virginia so the rust is not surprising, and I'm hoping there will be some folks here with relevant experience who can give me some insight.

Appreciate any help you guys can offer.

 

If the lower control arm Is good in general, you want to keep the original oem lower control arm. you don't want to go over to MOOG. I have heard a lot of people doing that and failure happened within a couple of years. It actually is not a big deal to Cut out the Cam bolt's, press out the bushings, replace them with energy suspension bushing, and press in a new ball joint. When replacing your bolt, make sure that you go with OEM Cam bolts and not aftermarket but this time Antiseize the crap out of them.

 

@Shmellmopwho Would you be able to help me with this? Are you able to do the bushings on my truck / any advice on this? I'm in NoHo.

 

I know several people who have gone down the easy route and installed new Moog LCA's... Ultimately the Moog bushings just don't last more than a few years.

I personally went with Whiteline lower bushings when I did mine, but I was doing the work, so it wasn't a labor issue.

Here is some reading for you. I am not suggesting you do this yourself, but this article will help you better understand what's available:
Step-by-Step Lower Control Arm Bushing Replacement on a 1st Gen Tacoma (or 3rd Gen 4Runner) – ADVENTURETACO

I will mention that the best option is to find a set of used OEM lower control arms (car-part.com). Change the bushings out ahead of time with something from link above, and give them to the shop to do installation. Then re-sell the original arms to recoup some cost.

 

Do yourself a favor and don't put the Moog parts on there. A couple years ago I removed the original OEM LCA bushings because they were shot and clunking at 271k miles. I replaced them with Moog LCA bushings and they only lasted 3 weeks (then the clunk returned).

Then I had to redo the whole job and wised up and put OEM Toyota bushings on (been smooth and clunk free for a couple years since). This isn't a job you want to have to do twice (or pay for labor on twice). The entire front end basically has to come apart to get to the bushings, and then it all has to be reassembled (and you need an allignment afterwards).

 

I was right where you are March/April 2023, and went down the same aftermarket road. Here is that discussion, if you want to skip to the resolution later in the thread here it is. I got the same song and dance (and they were right) that it wouldn't align due to suspension wear, in addition to the below I wound up putting in new TRE's, steering rack, and coilovers/shocks. Drives like it's new now.

Note I said at the beginning of that thread I was a total suspension ignoramus (and still am, mostly) but what motivated me to learn how to do it was exactly as you're describing - mechanics I don't trust and prices far above the value. OEM LCA's were $218 per side, LBJ's $141 and $116, and a cam bolt set (which I did not buy) was around $225, which brings me to my point . . .

I find it hard to believe the cam hardware is so far gone it is frozen unless you have a ton of rust. Mine ('03) were slightly rusted only in spots and went back in shiny and clean. It is entirely possible they are and there's some threads on here showing that, but it may not be the case.

The second thing is there's no mention of lower ball joints (LBJ's) which IMO are the weakest point of the Tacoma, and chances are fairly good yours are far overdue. The third, no mention of shock bushings, which can also make alignment almost impossible, or at the very least, not quite right. Most shops call them "strut bushings" but the Taco doesn't have struts, they are coilover springs. Most of the time they want to cheap out on those too, for example Monroe QuickStruts, which have a reputation for early failure and leaking.

The last is $700 in parts leaves only $300 for labor which is the biggest part of the job. They're either grooming you up for surprises or burying that labor in inflated costs for cheaper parts.

My suggestion would be to find/plan a place to do the work, start learning, and dive in, if an old man like myself can pull it off so can you. There is a lot of guidance in the thread above by stellar members here. Go OEM only on the LCA's and ball joints. You can save some money by replacing the bushings (lots of threads here) but it will add a lot of time to the project, what's more important, a few hundred bucks or your time?

At the very least you can go through basic suspension testing yourself as I did here. This will cost you nothing. Actually look at the cam bolts, don't try to loosen them yet but see if they appear rusted up. After you've done that, decide if you need a half inch drive impact wrench, a BAH, and motivation to get 'er done. :-D

 

Thanks for this! It looks like I don't have most of the equipment needed to change out the bushings myself... But this was very informative

 

Thanks for the insight! The mechanic did show me the cam bolts while it was up on the rack and they looked pretty far gone...

Despite the age of this truck, it only has 65k miles. It was on the east coast for most of its life (mostly garage kept but taken out in snow a few times every year) so the rust doesn't surprise me. The bad bushings kind of do, since it was never really driven that hard... but maybe I'm misunderstanding the time vs usage aspect of how the bushings wear out?

I'll try some tests and hopefully get an idea of whether the LBJ's need replacing.... But if I'm paying for the labor to replace the LCA and cam hardware anyway, maybe it makes sense to do the LBJ's at the same time?

Looks like I can get all OEM parts for around $960.

$465 both LCA's
$200 cam kit
$265 both LBJ's
$40 shipping

I will look into the possibility of doing this work myself... but I'm not going to lie, that seems a little farfetched for me. I've only done minimal work on my previous cars and I live in an apartment, so I'd have to hunt around for place to even do the work.

What's a rough estimate for how many hours of labor someone should charge me for this?

 

A little of both. Your truck is 23 years old. Rubber cracks and deteriorates. I thought mine weren't that bad until I got them removed, then I could see, it was time to go. My '03 had 83K at the time of this work.

Speaking of rust . . . have you done the "hammer test" on the frame? Get under there and bang along the frame, especially in the rear around where the shocks and leafs attach. You should get a nice iron ping, if you get a dull clunk or there are holes rusting through, you have bigger problems. They can be fixed but . . . it's a big fix. Search here for "rusted frame."

I vote definite yes.I never even took mine off the old LCA's (details why in that thread.) Tacoma ball joints have a proven history of shearing off below the ball, which takes other driveline parts and suspension parts with it. It can happen next week, next month, next year, or never. There's no telling and no indicating behaviors, they just go. From what I read here some wait until 70K, others 30K, I'd guess somewhere in between is good peace of mind.

I did a spreadsheet before I spent a dime, I've attached it in case you can trim off a hundred or so. McGeorge Toyota in VA (Now Orisman Toyota) beat out other vendors for almost everything.

Yeah that could be a deal breaker. I've seen people change wheel bearings in the Wal Mart parking lot, so you may need to get creative.

That I can't tell you, others who have done this lots of times or go to mechanics a lot can probably provide insight.

Bottle jack and torch, but . . . it adds a lot of time to the project which is why I went with full LCA's.

https://youtu.be/kmaZNBp1gZM?t=1164

 

Dude thanks so much for pointing me in the right direction on all this.

I had already stumbled across McGeorge and their price was abut $50 lower for everything, although I hadn't calculated shipping yet.

Ironically this truck spent most of its life in my dad's garage in Virginia, not far from another branch of Orisman Toyota. Grew up seeing their commercials on TV during Redskins games lol. Not even two months ago, I bought it from him and drove it across the country to SoCal, where I currently live.

Current plan is to hunt around the SoCal forum a bit for some recommendations on mechanics. I also have a coworker who has been working part time as a mechanic in the neighborhood for many years, so I'll get some phone numbers from him and call around for some labor estimates. I'll probably buy the OEM cam bolts, and then just sell them or return them if the old ones aren't truly frozen... Will also try and sell the old LCA to someone who is inclined to rebuild it, if I can find a buyer.

 

Heh that was my plan too, but 1) the welded nut on the inside of the LCA's for the front bump stops broke loose and I had to cut into the back of them to get the bump stops off, and 2) I was so freakin' zonked when I was done I realized there was no way I was going to live up to that one LOL