Tilton Engineering: Hydraulic Release Bearing Conversion Kits (Adapted for +2005 6MT Tacomas)

Gonna need me one of these here soon... Pulling my CM hydro now.

 

So to recap all the reading I've done, please correct me if I'm wrong:
The CM hydro TOB rotated more than just the bearing (which is supposed to spin obviously) causing the seal to fail, loose hydraulic pressure, and ultimately cause clutch failure. This was due to poor spacing from the pressure plate or contact with the pressure plate by parts of the TOB that shouldn't have be touching and thus began to spin.
If I've got that right, what is it with the Tilton that is going to prevent these issues? Apologies if this is discussed in another thread at some point, lots to read and I missed it.

 

Sorry I didn't see this right away! That's not my understanding as to why the Clutch Masters unit fails. Bill showcases a disproportionally sized (CM branded) release bearing for the RA60F/RA61F pressure plate. The plate fingers barely contact the radius edge of the bearing, negatively impacting uniform pressure being applied and ultimately wearing out the CM piston internals (seals). I never had a CM unit, so I can't elaborate much more then that.

 

On top of the fact that the TOB used in the CM kits is not the right size for the 1GR pressure plate, it’s also a cheap (and what I presume to be chinese) bearing. The CM kit also does not have a way to adjust the air gap if needed.

These style hydraulic TOB’s by design are always going to be pushed up against the pressure plate and be continuously spinning. In your case more than likely the cheap bearing that came with the CM kit finally gave and it allowed the piston to start spinning against the seal, leading to the inevitable leak. I can only imagine that the seal included in the CM kit is of poor quality as well.

The Tilton setup pieced together by the gurus on here utilizes a quality Toyota bearing and it should last much longer before you face a similar issue. On the actual Tilton unit itself you can tell the huge difference in build quality right away. And there’s replacement seals ect. readily available if needed.

 

This makes sense. Inspecting my failed CM more, the bearing expected to make contact actually moves within it's housing back and forth. This uneven pressure would lead to the rest of the piston rubbing and failing against the seal. Thanks for clarifying!

 

Good info! From a quality standpoint Tilton certainly ticks off all the boxes.

 

What are the issues with the stock set up ???

 

It chirps as it goes bad, weak fork pivot point that has broken on some of us, and the quill is also a know failure point.

For me, it was the complete inconsistency in the pedal feel. Did I contribute to that with a SPEC stage 3+ clutch, light weight flywheel, light weight damper and pulleys? Maybe. But while it worked the CM hydro was amazing and I don't want to return to stock based on feel and drivability with my setup.

 

@Kasbien I just bought an fj clutch pedal and I plan on doing this swap and was reading that there needs to be a pedal stop put on. Is the pedal stop part of the kit or is there instructions on where to add one?

 

I don't include a pedal stop but it's as easy as a bolt and two nuts or using a bumper of choice from the Energy Suspension catalogue.

 

This is a great kit and setup. I’ve got about 8k on mine since install. 100% recommend

 

I appreciate the follow up!

 

Hey @Kasbien, are you still selling these kits? If so, I suspect I'll be reaching out to you again very very soon.

I'm not even close to being as mechanically inclined as most of you are, but I'm lucky that my brother in law is. I was part of the 1st group that got the CM hydro bearing and I'm pretty sure it has shit the bed. I havnt taken it to be torn apart and looked at yet but I'm assuming it's the seal.? Issues (in my opinion) started fairly soon after having the hydro bearing installed where I was having more trouble than normal getting into gears and take off shudder has been an issue. Eventually I started having to throw it to 3rd or another gear before throwing it into first to take off. I feel it was and is always worse when the weather is warmer. More recently I've noticed when I downshift when my rpms are high it makes a sound I can't really describe as it's not so much of a whirl or grind but something like.... WHHHEERRNT. (I know... that doesnt help much).. even more recently every gear was feeling clunky, I feel more wobbling/vibrating then normal when my foot is just rested on the clutch pedal and the first few millimeters depressed. To today... the clutch is super soft, my engagement points seem to NEVER be consistent, when I am in 3rd gear driving and not putting my foot on the gas I can very easily drop the shifter out of 3rd. When I'm taking off 1st gear seems to grab right at the floor, same with 2nd then 3rd is either at the floor or I look and sound like I can't drive a manual and I'm giving it gas and it doesn't "grab" until I'm nearly all the way off the clutch pedal. And my last drive of the day (luckily to the house) I started not being able to shift into any gears at all..

I had thought all I needed was to have the brake fluid for the clutch flushed and filled because it is SUPER dirty, but at this point I doubt that would do anything at all. That was another thing. I could only go a couple thousand miles and then when I would check the brake fluid reservoir it was like tar dirty.

I have a URD Stage 2 clutch and resurfaced OEM flywheel

I hope you are still selling these kits and I hope they are like black magic and I won't be stressed out during every drive in my taco

@BillDaCat8 @HellsWells

 

well, #1, if this means you didn't do it yourself
depends where you took it. Not every place that calls itself a shop is worth anything.
If you DIY'd, you know what you did or you didn't do.

No mechanical inclination needed. There's instructions. If you worked on cars for 20 years, doesn't matter. Repair manual. Warranty info. Revised part. 10th version of a bulletin. If it is found to not be followed, claim gets kicked. New cars come out. New technology.
No one is born "inclined" you become that. If you're not, it means job takes longer. Budget more time.
jiffy Lube's got wrench and shirt, yet their MO is break not fix.

#2, it's in there.
Look at your clutch master behind the pedal. It's plastic. Mine looked like shit, seemed to be bleeding into the fluid. Whatever came out of it was black.
Plastic? Not ideal. Older cars don't do that. Metal is probably better. They offer metal.
Brake fluid is kind of corrosive. Don't know why they would make a vehicle with plastic besides cut costs and get no farther than down the road.
So yeah, if it's not been done, probably needs to be done, and is cheap.
Trans removal not required. It's behind the pedal.

your post does not state what kind of flush
if it's professional method (pressure)
or other methods such as year 1342 BC middle of forest methods

his kit probably doesn't have the Tilton TOB
which is the point, it's a fitment kit, and I ordered one too for when that day comes

but be advised
you can get a part made of diamond and gold
if it's not installed properly. Not bled properly. Adjusted. And stale chip of a pedal cylinder. etc
it will not work

whatever else that should be done I'm missing
like shifter cup socket (plastic)

 

When the CM shits the bed it’s no mystery. Petal goes to the floor and brake fluid pisses out from the bell housing. It’s not like it kinda goes out. One minute you have a clutch next shift it’s gone and your power shifting back home.

 

Brother in law owns same day auto repair shops. Knows his shit, races sprint cars, and does all the work himself so I trust him through and through. In response to the mechanical inclination I agree with you and I do not really have the time.

I may not be following what you are saying about the master though. Are you saying it may need to be replaced as plastic was getting in the line dirtying the fluid?

 

I may be wrong here but does anybody think this could be due to install error

there's a difference between "I read the instructions myself"
and,
"oh who I took it to, I dunno. And IDK what they did"

I might be wrong
screwed around with mine on the bench. Took it a bit apart. Lubed it. Put it back together.
Did the same thing again next time I had my clutch out.

I will tell you though, even though the truck gets from A to B
it does not feel normal
the softer engagement makes it hard to feel the clutch
and it's always changing almost like it's sucking in air faster than it should and benefits from a bleed but only for a short time
Wish it wasn't the case
Or, the bite seems to change
adjusted it probably 100 times now

I mean, purists love things that ere direct and mechanical
hydraulic is the opposite
a HydroTOB makes it instead of a 50/50 half hydro system (half is a lever, half is hydraulics pushing it)
it becomes 100% ALL hydro
(some old cars were 100% mech)

and that seems to only really happen in motorsports with insane engines and insane clutches
if not sequential boxes where clutch is only used to start. Where folks don't care about rebuilding

so maybe HydroTOB was the wrong way to go about resolving a non-replaceable quill
which really should just simply be a $30 replaceable quill like every other car ever made, that does fine with mech TOB
because of $30 replaceable quill...

even though I've got stage 2 clutch
advertised to be "stiff"
with the CM it is not at all. And it's definitely no 5 puck whatever 700hp+ race car clutch that's a bear to work.

I'd bet he did it right.

That's up to you to know if your masters been done or not, and if it's original black plastic. If yes, I'd bet you it's bad. Think I got my metal new one from RockAuto.
I know mine dirtied things.
If yours goes like mine you'll see what I mean. Just disconnecting the line it's black crap starts pouring out of the plastic master.

If you do it, time for another bleed
Might throw another bleed at mine too. No idea if the CM necessitates more frequent bleed schedule, just like how other mods change things ie 35's = more frequent bearing jobs.
I hope not.
Because only Porsche I've heard is calling for yearly brake fluid replacement, which, why, IDK. Nobody else does. Everyone else is like ~2yr.
kinda more PITA job than an oil change.

 

Thank you for the replies @TacoTuesday1. In bed now but I'll be checking the master first thing in the morning.

Yeah bleeding seems to be a (every 3 months) kind of job with how dirty the res looks, unless again Like you mentioned that could be due to the master

 

I think his CM needs bled or his clutch is toast. I had a CM had it blow the oring then rebuilt it and got about another 15k out of it before it did it again. I replaced it with the stock slave. Yesterday I did a brake bleed and clutch bleed basically a brake flush ( started in the back and worked my way to the front until it pumped out clear ended up being about a quart) and when I bled my slave it puked black fluid for quite a few cycles until it cleared up. I think old clutch material gunk gets worked back in and has nowhere to go making it turn black. My truck is a Sport so my brake master is my clutch slave master as well.

 

I mean if the master shit I think it’s gonna contribute to dirtying it. gonna have to contort look down behind the pedal if it’s original black plastic. If you never replaced it probably hasn’t been done.

I had the same issue. Fluid contaminating quickly frequent bleeds but I think a big cause was the master behind pedal.

don’t get me wrong. I wonder if the seal material of the CM gets exposed to DOT4, and dissolve into the circuit

same way the master probably does
But the master had also been there for like 10/100+ before it’s gone bad

don’t know if tilton design is any different in that regard

whereas with a traditional lever arm being pushed by a slave rod
To push a bearing
There isn’t fluid with a big rubber HydroTOB seal or whatever the thing is made of. Ideally would be resistant to that.
Or maybe grease either factory or pre install.

mine came dry and don’t recall instructions saying to grease

as opposed to square cut seals for brake calipers. They come with grease and instructions that state specifically to soak them in the red rubber grease.
To give it a protective barrier like skin lotion moisturizer basically.
If I’m putting a brake caliper seal then I’m doing that. Or using my own. Like a little tub of Castrol Red Rubber Grease maybe $10.
I don’t see how a HydroTOB would be any different. It’s also in the presence of DOT4 and providing a force piston seal just like a caliper.