Audio upgrade advice for 2023 TRD OR

I’ve used jl audio components in 1 of my builds and there like the infinity kappas , power hungry for them to sound full. You’ll definitely want to add a sub for the low end . I’m using a Rockford shallow 10 in a skar audio box and it completes the sound. Also the head unit I have has a built in dsp that makes up for what those mini amps don’t have.

 

thanks for your comment;it does sound great but it has taken me a while and wasted some unnecessary products in the end that’s why you see Audison, Mosconi and JL products but ended with best of what I could afford.
If I had just waited and spent money wisely or knowing the end results I probably had not wasted money time and efforts in items like the following list

almost $2000.00 just wasted
JL Audio 6x9 C2s $300
Jl audio JD 400/4 #380
Kenwood components 6x9 with the 31/2 inch speakers $280
Alpine the R 6 1/2 $250
Rockford fosgate tweeters $150
Zapco amp $300
Audio Control LC2 $200
JL audio low output converter $150

So my recommendation is plan your dream system wether that is 3 or 4+ thousand dlls and purchase an item at a time without trying to get something cheaper that you won’t be happy with in the end!
Let’s keep it real you bought a Tacoma worth $20,000 plus dlls and you think a 5 grand sound system is out of your budget? It doesn’t make sense right? Well just my stupid opinion
Take care!!

 

for the record, 'going off the reservation' is much easier with full-active/programmable dsp's.

6x9 is generally a harder fulfillment, as it's a car audio specific form factor, so any option is specifically for car audio, which means only car audio brands, which compete directly on price with the options you already looked at, and aren't always offered a la carte.

but i'll give it a shot!

for starters, $30, some cheap crossovers. there's zero specs on these, but i used a similar model in a boom box project with good results. they pass the visual inspection for the same parts quality of crossovers one would get for a typical $300-600 car audio component set.

$29 300 Watts 2 Way Crossover - (2 Pack) Passive Car Audio Speaker Tweeter Mids and Highs CRX-203

https://www.amazon.com/Crossover-CR...0&sprefix=car+audio+crossover,aps,234&sr=8-10

tweeters. $35.

$31 Zerone 1 Pair 2" 4Ohm 30W Silk/Polymer Composite Dome Tweeters Treble Speaker HiFi Stereo Heavy Bass Car Loudspeakers

https://www.amazon.com/Zer-one-Comp...&sprefix=ring+radiator+tweeter,aps,264&sr=8-2

these are a chinese copy of peerless/tympany ring radiator tweeters--same style as ultra-high-end home theater speakers, or the $600 hybrid audio legatia tweeters. i currently run these in the truck(aliexpress sourced for $23 with long shipping times, but same thing), with the genuine peerless versions in the car. slight tonal difference, but the core response is identical, extremely smooth, even when pointed at the window glass in the oem tweeter location (this was why my car went through 4 tweeter variations-- same tweeter location, the glass reflection can screw with other variations).

for the tweeters, i'd also suggest saving the time cutting your own and ordering these $8 adapter plates as well

$8 X AUTOHAUX 2 Pcs Black Plastic Car Tweeter Speaker Mounting Adapter Bracket Rings for Toyota for Subaru for Lexus

https://www.amazon.com/AUTOHAUX-Pla...&sprefix=ring+radiator+tweeter,aps,264&sr=8-1

and the hardest part-- the 6x9 woofer.
my first consideration is going to be cdt audio. both of these do blow your budgeted allowance though. important to note that i've never heard them in person, and don't like the minimal specification information provided. i generally prefer to judge speakers on their frequency response chart, that isn't provided here.

2@$115(sale), CL-69SUB CF
this is more of a subwoofer that 'goes high'. it prioritizes bass over vocals, though will likely still perform admirably with vocals given the rest of the construction. i like it specifically for the bumped back plate, and good power handling.
2@120(sale), CL-69S
this is going to be a more 'musical' speaker. it won't reach as low, but the central phase plug offers slightly improved off-axis response, which is beneficial in this trucks speaker locations.

there's this $110 rockville 6x9 'subwoofer' though the price and build specs don't give me a ton of confidence, ironically, they do list more detailed specs, though they read to me like a typical 'cheap' woofer that just happens to handle lots of power.
https://www.rockvilleaudio.com/2-rvl69w/

there's audiofrog 6x9s, but those are $380/pr.
https://www.crutchfield.com/S-KBV9GIaKBlU/p_898GS690/Audiofrog-GS690.html

i've browsed everywhere else i can think of, and all the other separate 6x9's are either part of component sets, or are 'oem replacement' speakers, which won't work here.

the only other possiblity would be tang band 6x9's, they used to offer a large-magnet subwoofer, or a thin neodymium woofer. but both of those were discontinued about 6 years ago. there's still a few floating around, i attempted to order some from croatia last year, but the seller cancelled the order and vanished...


after that, i have 2 other recommendations that would easily fall within your budget:

my first preference is the 6.5" hds nomex, usually around $50-75/ea. this is what i'm currently using in my truck, and has become my 'fallback' speaker. good midrange, strong bass, and crosses over well into most tweeters.
https://www.parts-express.com/Peerless-830875-6-1-2-Nomex-Cone-HDS-Woofer-264-1092

the bad news is that peerless stopped doing small orders to hobbyists, and is focusing on the oem market, but there's still stock shown available across the pond in australia1, 2 if you get seriously interested.

the good news is that it appears that dayton audio created what appears to be their own version of it, for $50/ea.
https://www.parts-express.com/Dayto...ure-Series-Woofer-80W-Driver-4-Ohm?quantity=1
for all modeling purposes, it appears to have similar response and tone characteristics, with a similar motor build that should offer significant low end while still getting plenty loud, though i haven't gotten my hands on them yet.

 

Funny, I almost mentioned CDT because the name popped up on a bunch of car audio specific forums. A little bit pricey, but not horribly so. The CL-69SUB are selling for $180 a pair on Amazon. Never bought car audio through Amazon, but should be fine? My worries would be a. maybe the Key is not going to have enough power (45 W split as components) b. the SUB (but not the other one) are deep, so would they fit a Tacoma front door? I saw your measurements a while ago but i forget. The other ones definitely would. Anyway they look well made and people like them, and supposedly are returnable. Audiofrog are one people seem to really, really like, across the board. But yeah then we're at 400 bucks for 6x9s.
Any experience with Focal RSE-165 component 6.5s + tweeters? They're on sale for $100 at Crutchfield, and that fill for rear door and dash speakers. Obviously now I am back on the reservation. Crutchfield makes it so easy though. And that seems pretty cheap. I'd probably buy those Daytons you cited if you had heard them; still curious however. Too bad the Peerless are unavailable. I tried searching around and, other than eBay, they arent out there like you said.

edit: those Focals look very similar in construction to the Peerless you mentioned though I did not compare the specs so maybe I am talking out of my @%*
edit 2: i did not realize the CDTs were 120 PER PAIR. Not each. Website is a little confusing. That's totally reasonable.

 

yeah, i definitely misunderstood the single/pair wording on cdt's site-- that definitely would make them the better option, and fall well within your price point.

i don't have a ton of experience with focal, but those are simply cheap(this is the problem i have with car audio-- to get past 'cheap', it's very easy to quickly get into the $500+ component set market). if you look at the crossover size compared to the one i linked, it has less components (also visible in the last picture, they show an opened crossover), which means slightly less quality(official terminology-- because of the smaller size, it doesn't allow space for 2 coils and 2 capacitors, which is the bare minimum for a 12db/oct crossover, meaning this is a 6db/oct crossover). the tweeter being a mylar dome is about as cheap as they can make them. silk is generally regarded as have smoother/softer tone, with metal having more of an upper-end brilliance. the woofer construction looks ok for the price, the under-spider venting is less common at this price point, but the poly cone/rubber surround is standard fare-- there's a good dozen non-branded speakers that will have similar build construction that run in the $20-30 range. the reality is that at $100, at least $50 of this speaker is still going towards bragging rights to the name stamped on it...

there's really a few major differences between the daytons and these focal's.
1. venting. the focal looks to only be vented under the spider. the dayton is vented through the voice coil, under the spider, and through the rear magnet. any venting increases the power capabilities due to the air cooling. it also allows the speaker to move more freely, as air can't get as easily trapped within the confines of the speaker.

2. if you read through the dayton or peerless product description, it notes that either woofer has a shorting sleeve/ring for improved inductance, damping, and frequency response. this one is massive. most car audio speakers don't come with this--or at least most never mention it. but the extra damping allows the speaker to be better controlled by the amp, which allows it to reach deeper/lower than a speaker that doesn't come equipped with it. it's a simple change, but that change is what allows my peerless to be used without crossovers at high levels.

 

On Soundman's advice. I picked up the Daytons a while back...and, yes they are built to a much higher standard than the Audio Control separates I just bought. It just made me think how car audio stuff is just over-priced across the board. Lesson learned. Glad I kept my Daytons woofers because, I must admit, the Audio Control stuff...while sounding great...the mid-woofer does not sound as polished (for lack of a better word) than the Daytons. When the Daytons arrived...I was like "holy crap...this is a nice speaker!" The brushed aluminum cone, the cast aluminum basket etc...the surround is indexed to the cone...for $50 each.

 

Allright, I'm three rum-sodas deep tonight.

There is something I have always wanted to pick your brain on. I'll agree that most $100-200 speaker sets are pretty damn far from perfect.

My question is going to be about the concert hall itself. We are talking about a rattly-ass, uninsulated, body on frame truck. When you have a mediocre ear like mine, and a person who is going to take a half-pass at dampening the doors and back panel (like me), is a proper $500 speaker going to really shine in the absolutely awful acoustics of a truck cab? And the real crux of the question is... how much sound dampening is needed so that the average joe can appreciate the difference of high end cone construction?

So I'll be the first to admit that even my cheap focals are too bright on the high end. But at the same time, wind noise and tire hum are also singing quite the tune at those frequencies. Meanwhile, I take the small hatchback for a spin, and it's stock stereo will put my truck's aftermarket to shame, strictly because the acoustics are far superior. The cab of the hatch has a better shape for sound, it has better insulation, and thanks to it being down low and running street tires, it has practically zero noise to fight. Granted, the hatch came stock with a 10 speaker system compared to the aftermarket 7 I have in the truck, but still.

My question is, if one was not going to take the expense and time to 100% disassemble and fully insulate the interior, doors, walls, roof and floor, is a nice speaker really truly worth it?

 

Unfortunately those Daytons don't seem to be available either (back ordered until mid Decemeber on PartExpress, and unavailable everywhere else). I ordered a few things off AliExpress one time, if that's similar to PartExpress, and it came three months later looking like it had been brought by camel across the Silk Road. It was legit though, and I got exactly what I wanted.

https://www.parts-express.com/Peerless-835025-6-1-2-Aluminum-Cone-HDS-Woofer-264-1086?quantity=1

Would these be comparable?

 

Don’t think so…those are 8 ohms

 

parts express is headquartered, and warehoused in ohio, dayton is their in-house brand. i believe they do all their own designs, but then subcontract out to china for manufacturing. but all their inventory is managed directly in ohio, so shipping times are quite reasonable. me being 1 state away, things normally arrive within 2-3 days after ordering with standard shipping.

that would be a suitable alternative-- the hds nomex i use has slightly smoother high frequency response above 2khz, which is what i got hung up on when selecting them originally. but that really doesn't matter in the least because any crossover will filter that out anyways. the nomex versions i've got are also 8 ohm. it's always ok to go up in ohms, but must be careful with amp and wiring connection compatibility to go down.

 

this is sort of a 'what's the best vehicle' scenario. a 4-door civic gets great gas mileage and easily gets groceries, but can't tow a 5th wheel. a dually can tow a 5th wheel, but is horrible at drag racing. a sports car is great at racing of any sort, but generally terrible at getting groceries...

a great environment can make a crappy speaker sound good, just as a terrible environment with a great speaker can also sound better.

just as with most things, i don't think there's an absolute answer here, but a mix of a lot of 'somewhere in between'. it's sort of a big non-answer . in a blind test, i doubt most people, acoustically-knowledgeable or not, would be able to blindly tell the difference between a top-of-the-line $20,000 home stereo speaker, and a meticulously designed custom-built home stereo speaker that cost no more than $1,000. some of the car audio stuff plays on this. some of it is expectation, some of it is branding, and some of it is reality.

in vehicles, it's even more dramatic-- as you noted, we're not just 'designing' speaker systems, but also making do with an otherwise terrible acoustic environment. in some ways, it means that vehicles have 2 different approaches to improvement-- one can improve the speaker quality, or one can improve the environment quality. either are going to have a dramatic effect on the end product, but it definitely comes down to the individuals end-goals.

if one's goals are to listen to quiet, delicate music, at soft volumes, the benefits of altering the environment are going to offer the biggest advantage.

but if one's goals are to listen to Shania Twain at the loudest possible volume, the goals are changed-- the environment doesn't matter at those output levels, but speaker acoustics/build quality, and system tuning parameters are going to mean much more in this case. panel damping would still be important for loudness, but for entirely different reasons.

in the first example, we're looking to minimize or otherwise control the acoustics of the environment to make for an overall quieter environment. this can be more difficult or have a reach far beyond just the vehicle cabin, as harmful noise comes from many areas, but also transmit across components as well-- adding padding around the wheel wells, or as ford does, changing the wheel well liner to a felt instead of a hard plastic, would help mitigate tire noise, but does absolutely nothing for speaker acoustics--but it can make a cheap speaker easier to use, and sound better because it doesn't need to be turned up so loud.

in the second example, we're looking to control excessive vibrational forces from specific locations, meaning that any damping solution is localized to the speakers installation location, and the surfaces it's sound waves directly interact with.

in most ways, a great speaker that gets loud will have good properties for the first example, but takes a different approach to the environment to appreciate it.

how's that for answering with a non-answer? lol

 

I ran Infinity Kappas front and rear no tweeter upgrade yet but i will do something soon. For the money spent i don't think i could be happier I am about 230 bucks in for the speakers and i bought Dynamat for the doors.

 

After much hesitation and consideration, I wound up getting the Kicker Key amp and Infinity Reference 6x9/1" components and Infinity Reference coaxial 6.5"s. I was a little unsure, but they are currently cheaper than the lowest model Kickers at Crutchfield. I got the components for 140, 6.5s for 50. Just seemed like a really good deal, and if they suck it sounds like Crutchfield will take them back no problem. I did email some with CDT and I am curious about their equipment, just with my time management (i.e. life) it was easier for me to deal with Crutchfield than get it all together myself. I'll document the install and let you all know how it turns out. Thanks for all the feedback. Everyone is nice and polite here, and it's refreshing.

edit: Happy Thanksgiving

 

my only hesitation with the infinity speakers-- make sure to use some di-electric grease on the speaker terminals in the doors. there's a few threads on here of the terminals rusting/corroding within the doors due to the natural moisture that's present there. i haven't seen such a problem with any other speaker.

 

Just to make sure: The Audio Control components I have are listed as 3ohms. If I were to substitute the 4 ohm Daytons back in, would that be compatible with the audio control crossovers?

 

crossover components are designed around an expected impedance. in this case, 3 ohms.

installing a higher impedance speaker will work, but shifts the crossovers filter frequency lower. in this case, if the crossover is set up for a 2,000hz crossover point between the mid and tweeter at 3 ohms, a 4 ohm mid will instead have a 1500hz crossover point.

but that's also assuming that the audio control is actually 3 ohms, and the dayton is actually 4 ohms. actual-measured resistance of each individual speaker could place them closer, or further apart, from the design spec of the crossover. most speakers i've measured tend to fall closer to the 'lesser' side, so a 4 ohm speaker generally reads closer to 3.2-3.8 ohms, and a 3ohm nominal speaker might really be reading closer to 2.2-2.8ohms. meaning that the crossover might really be doing 2.2-2.5hz with the factory gear, and the new woofer might be doing 1.5-1.9khz.

that doesn't mean it won't work, only that the crossover being used differently could shape the sound differently. in some cases this can be good, and some will be bad. there's a lot of reflections in the environment, as well as tonal changes between speakers that sometimes lend themselves to an environmentally-enhanced 1-3khz bump in frequency response, that such a crossover adjustment could tune out to some degree.

 

Thanks for the tip. I’ve got that at work, plus infinite shrink tubing, so that’s an easy fix. Also plan on deadening the doors. I’m probably answering my own question, but does anyone know the gauge on the factory speaker wire and if it’s best to change it? I’m going to assume so. I got 30 ft of 18 gauge with the amp wiring kit I got off Amazon, that should suffice as a replacement if needed right? If not, wire is cheap and easy to find, and I can probably get it at work for free.
All this discussion is reminding me of AC/DC classes I took years ago. It’s made me curious about how exactly crossovers work, because they appear to use different components (capacitors, inductors, resistors, etc). Not sure if there’s a technical thread on this.

 

yes, best to change the wire if you can. i prefer 16-14 gauge, if you're getting it from work, be sure that it's stranded wire-- the more strands the better.

how crossovers work is a bit of a rabbit hole! there's really a million resources on this, so i'll only give a brief synopsis of the components.

capacitors are high frequency devices. depending on the value, they only allow a frequency above a certain point pass through them.
inductors are the opposite-- they only allow frequencies below a certain value through.
resistors are used in this case to balance the levels, or alter the impedance of the circuit for different effects.

and by combining capacitors and inductors, we're able to also increase the precision of a filter is as well.

 

How do you like those? They have almost zero reviews on Crutchfield, are very understated in appearance but for some reason they look solid to me. Huge drivers like you may have mentioned, and it seems like all their other products are held in fairly high regard. Also (for you or anyone) where is a good spot for the crossovers? Where do the factory speakers split up? I had hoped to drop the amp behind the dash. Ideally then I'd have the crossovers on the left and right extremes under the dash, where they can split and go their separate ways as it were.

 

I like the Audio Control Separates a lot. Yes, they’re very understated but, in person, they’re more impressive. There is very careful attention with packaging and instructions. There are two crossovers per L and R side (total of 4). I placed a set under each seat. This gave me quick access to the 3 position switch on the high pass crossover and I can adjust the seat back on the rails to easily access them.

Soundman suggested keeping them in the cab for just that reason and he was right. The Audio Control tweeter output is strong and I had it set to the lowest setting which sounded most natural to me. Audio Control also provides large heat shrink envelopes for the crossovers should you want to remove the electronics from the aluminum housing and stick them in tight places like the dash.

I now run the crossovers at 0 setting (instead of -3db or -6db) because I can cut the output with my Sony HU at -5db. This gives me a bit more detail than a -6db cut. This is just one of the areas where getting an aftermarket HU really pays off.

BTW, I was expecting the woofer’s large magnet to translate to big bass but the mid bass is very neutral and balanced. It seems to start rolling off naturally at 80hz which is where my subwoofer (JL Stealthbox) kicks in. I’m still dialing it in with different settings but so far it’s been great fun and a solid choice. No regrets. Well, maybe I wish I had gotten an Audio Control Amp with DSP…but my Alpine S2-A55V (the weakest link in the chain) has been solid performer.