PennSilverTaco's HVAC BS MegaThread!

The house we rented in Hilton Head last April had a pool heat pump (but propane for the hot tub), but that was in South Carolina where it is much more mild. However, obviously pool heaters tend to only be in use in the warmer months, so I'm thinking a heat pump used to heat a pool in Pennsylvania in the summer will have a bit of an easier time than a heat pump used to heat a house in winter...

 

Wonder what's cheaper to heat a pool? Gas or electric? Me thinks gas,it's cheaper to heat a house with gas.

 

And then when it comes electric vs oil heat, it's not as cut and dry as choosing gas over electric; I would honestly go out of my way not to buy a house with oil-fired forced air heat, unless I got a hell of a deal. Hot water baseboard heat, whether it's gas or oil, is great! However, heating oil still costs a fortune to refill even with the most efficient boilers and furnaces. As such, a heat pump in addition to the oil heating system is the way to go, especially in areas where the winters are milder. Because heating oil costs so much per gallon to refill, it is actually cheaper to run a heat pump when it's about 40°F or warmer. Once it gets into the 30s, and definitely below freezing, the oil heat can take over for the heat pump. With forced air, the heat pump and oil furnace are part of the same system, and the same thing can be done with gas and propane (though it doesn't much sense because gas is more economical than oil).

My friend and former boss bought a house with her husband that was built in 1976 if I remember correctly. It has hot water baseboard heat fed by an oil boiler, and did not have central air. They bought the house in late 2019, and I believe they put in central air in 2021. Their contractor recommended going with a heat pump to cut down on oil consumption, but a heat pump cost more than a straight-cool A/C, and they went to yours truly for a second opinion; I confirmed that installing a heat pump was a good idea, and that's what they did. The house did not originally have central air, as stated above, so ductwork had to be installed and extra wiring had to be run; I believe that the indoor unit is located in the attic. Because the house did not have central air, the cost for everything was about twenty grand. My friend's husband works his ass for his money and was able to pay cash for the job.

 

Six heat pumps at an apartment building in Bethlehem where I dropped off a DoorDash order in Bethlehem this afternoon; I know that they are heat pumps for an extraordinarily simple reason, and it had nothing to do with the fact that it was in the low 50s when I took this pic and some of them were running...

See the yellow "Energy Guide" sticker on the side of the newer Goodman unit closer to me? If these were straight-cool A/C units, that sticker would only show the SEER (Seasonal Energy Efficiency Rating). The Goodman's sticker displays both SEER and HSPF (Heating Seasonal Performance Factor). The Goodman has an HSPF of 7.7, which the lowest allowed by federal law at the time of this post. The Goodman is a cheapo unit, but higher end heat pumps have an HSPF of 9 or more, with the most efficient units having an HSPF of more than 10!

 

Not that the market here is really booming with oil anymore anyway but you can no longer install a new oil fired heating source where I live. Honestly good riddance, the prices are dumb for that fuel anyway. My house was originally coal fired boiler, then converted to oil, then again converted to natural gas forced air (kinda wish they left the boiler and rads and just went natural gas boiler with electric circulators)

 

The majority of the houses in my girlfriend's neighborhood were built in the late 1950s and early 1960s, and as far as I know, none of them originally had central air. Most have oil heat, though I think a few in a specific area were lucky enough to have public natural gas. This York Stellar Series, located at the house next door to where my girlfriend lives, was installed in 1985 and is still going strong! Until maybe 20 years ago, York built a halfway decent product...

 

Our house on Whidbey Island had public gas heat and no central A/C. The overwhelming majority of new homes being built here in Southeast PA have gas heat; I am not aware of any new homes being built in my area that have oil heat. All of the new oil heating systems being installed around here are replacing old systems. My friend and former boss, and her husband, installed a heat pump to supplement their oil hot water heating system and save some money on heating oil.

 

I've never seen oil heat in western WA to my knowledge, especially not on an island (thats usually propane). But in the inland northwest in the old railroad city I live in there was a bit of oil heat. Well at least for the houses originally built outside the municipal steam supply. Spokane originally had a huge steam plant to supply for the whole city.

 

Also, on another note, propane gives my grandmother a headache. She has no problem with natural gas, but she had the propane-powered fireplace in her old house disconnected because it was giving her a headache. The house had a heat pump for heating and cooling, and no propane for the heat, though for some reason there was something called a Trianco Heatmaker tied into the HVAC system. I never figured out quite what this thing was, but it resembled a hot water boiler.

Every house has my parents have owned since 1990 has had gas heat. My dad doesn't know for sure, but he believes the house in Northern California that they bought right before they got married had electric baseboard heat. Also, even though every house my parents have owned has had gas heat, only three of them including the one we are in now have had gas stoves.

 

@6 gearT444E
@ABA180
@ColoradoTJ
@shakerhood

What's your opinion of York HVAC products? I think that prior to about 2006, they're great, and anything made prior to the 21st century is second to none in terms of quality and reliability. However, after 2006-2007, quality really dropped in my opinion...

I saw these Coleman-branded York units at a Starbucks in Hellertown, PA where I picked up an Uber Eats order this morning. Straight-cool York units, which I believe these are, suck because they have fragile microchannel coils that are prone to bursting. This design requires the unit to be totally evacuated of refrigerant during servicing, where other units would be perfectly fine having the refrigerant relocated into the outdoor unit, because the coils could burst. York/Coleman/Luxaire/etc heat pumps do not have this issue because heat pumps operate at too high of a pressure for the microchannel coils...

 

@6 gearT444E
@ABA180
@ColoradoTJ
@Just_A_Guy
@shakerhood
@Speedytech7
@steelcity2
@TnShooter

Since I started doing DoorDash in Bethlehem, @Stitchgirl90 and I have been driving past this new neighborhood on a regular basis, and I decided to stop and take a look. Trane recently started selling builder grade products under the brand name "RunTru by Trane". This is my first time seeing one in person...

 

I took the first pic (above) before I knew there was a model I could take more in-depth pics of. The model was built in 2020-2021, the houses they are building now seem to have Rheem/Ruud air-conditioners rather than RunTru. I don't know enough about this brand to form a worthwhile opinion, but I would rather see these installed at houses of this price range instead of Goodman like my house, or even bottom-of-the-line Carrier Sentry units like Toll Brother uses. They use scroll compressors and they have the same spine-fin coil that higher-end Trane and American Standard units have, so my initial opinion is good...

 

The Friedrich mini-split is a temporary install used to heat and cool the showroom in the basement, and will likely be removed when the home is sold...

 

The home next door has dual-zone, and a backup generator!

 

And as is typical, they use cheap HVAC equipment. At least these places have gas heat and the builder used equipment made by Trane...

 

Generators are a good investment, l have a portable one just in case.

 

Indoor portion of the Friedrich mini-split, taken today...

 

RunTru gas furnace...