Engine Oil, Climate, and Use.

Certain German cars call for 0w20...

0w is cold start
it's gonna be hot when at operating temp
snow outside isn't gonna make the engine be 30F on the highway mile 10

lot of variables that determine a high quality oil beyond just weight

 

please post a screen shot or photo of the chart along with the publication from which it was taken.

 

In reference to why thicker oil provides better engine protection, it can accommodate larger particles in the oil without causing wear and maintains better film strength at high heat.

ZDDP packages vary from manufacturer. This is a whole another subject and not related. But yes, higher end oils tend to have more ZDDP. Amsoil 0w-20 for example has a lot. So does M1 Euro. Toyota branded oil is pretty good too; all 3 are made my Mobil 1.

 

Ahhh, clearly you think you're smarter than the highly educated, trained, and experienced Toyota engineers.

 

Today, oil weight/viscosity has more to do with providing better fuel economy than it does with engine protection. Perfect example, the Tacoma is 0W-20, my old Corolla that had a high EPA rated fuel economy was 0W-16, and now most toyota hybrid 4 cylinders have even gone to 0W-8. They don't particularly care how long the motor lasts any longer, as long as it gets good fuel economy and makes it out of warranty.

My FJ60 manual says I can run anything from ditch water to 20-50, but nobody gave a shit about fuel economy back then. I think if they said it was ok to run 10w30 in their vehicles nowadays, which I guarantee from an engine protection standpoint is fine, The EPA would crack down on them and require them to use MPG stats with the heavy oil.

 

Sorry, engines (even in the same line) evolve, tolerances get tightened, and yeah, the oil spec changes. Long story short, your guarantee is worthless. As for your insinuation any given engine will not last as long when running the newer oil grades, please provide some science to back that up. The fact is, 5W-20 and the subsequent 0W-20 oils have been in service for roughly a quarter of a century and yet engines are lasting longer now than at any time in history; if the xW-20 oils were so bad for engine longevity, there would be massive evidence supporting that claim, and there simply isn't.

 

I mean, I see your point, but I never meant to insinuate that a modern engine will run less time or be less reliable as an older engine with thicker oil. As a matter of fact, I completely disagree with it. The insinuation should be that a modern engine requiring thin oil will run just as long with thick oil as it will with thin oil, just get less fuel economy.
My 60 runs just fine with 20-50 and 5w30, depending on ambient temp.

As a technician, I think the much more important factor in engine life is service interval, and much much much further down the list is oil viscosity.

ultimately, I think these conversations about oil weight are pointless, because they will be just fine with whatever oil you decided to put in, within reason. My whole point about responding was not to argue with a particular oil weight being ok or not ok, more so to say the reason manufacturers use thin oil is for fuel economy.

 

The North America owner’s manual is not really representative of what Toyota’s highly educated, trained, and experienced engineers think.

 

@BlackCat81

Putting your thoughts/perspective on TW (especially oil threads) will get scrutinized every time.

As suggested on another thread (or was it this one?), one has to have thick skin (not saying you don't).

All I can say about the oil I used is...what was recommended in the manual/indicated on the oil cap, is what I used on all new vehicles our family bought.

This guy lasted 210K+ miles and I changed her oil between 3K-5K.

We bought her in Hawaii (Oahu in 2002) and took her to Germany, Delaware & Italy...and then a cross-country trip (to & fro) from DE to NM.

Unfortunately, this was how my Honda Pilot's life came to a close in Oct 2018.

 

Oil thread fight!!!!!

 

We're going to have to agree to disagree.

 

There is really nothing to disagree on. The fine engineers tell you what you can run in Mexico vs here. Only reason they can’t tell you to run here what they do in Mexico is eco politics. If you don’t want to believe that, that’s fine, but that is the truth. The owner’s manuals are different while the engines are exactly the same. The engine doesn’t know what side of the border it’s on.

Aside from piston ring gap, “tolerances” (I think you mean clearances) have not changed. The bearings still have as much clearance as they did on other engines when Toyota recommended 10W-30 30 years ago. As I’ve said a million times before, there is not that much difference between 15W-40 and 0W-20. Neither will blow the engine, though you may get more service life doing things like towing or hard acceleration with something 30 or 40 weight as opposed to 20. And, god forbid you have a cooling issue at some point and overheat before you realize it, the thicker oil will protect further/longer into that overheating situation before it thins out too far. So that could be advantageous.

Note - I have never ever told anyone to run anything specific. All I share is the information from Toyota and why they might say what they do.

 

not trying to argue or start a fight here, but do you really think that engineers get the final say in what goes into production or do you think they recommend what they recommend and toyota says "I don't think so" for whatever reason? Mostly due to cost? I sure do.

From an engineering standpoint I look at cars sometimes when taking them apart and go "wtf were they thinking with this?" If a toyota engineer told you to change your oil at a 10k interval but a blackstone analysis said based on your particular engine and wear markers, you should change it at 7500mi, would you say blackstone is wrong and the engineers know everything and have our best interests at heart?

 

Exactly.

Also, there are rules about what manufacturers can do and recommend here. If they used 0W-20 when they tested for MPG and came up with their ratings, then that is what they have to recommend you use in the US. That must be a newer rule because 6-7 years ago vehicles were still getting the viscosity chart based on climate, and subsequently were recommending thicker oil than what they had tested for mpg on.

The 2016 factory service manual for my Frontier went from 5W-30 to 20W-50 and later Nissan came out and said 0W-20 is fine too (of course, because they don’t change anything/much to run 0W-20).

 

Spirit of the season gents. Let not get into a food fight eh?

I run my engine hard. I use 5w30. If you drive like a grandma use the oil which is best suited for fuel economy and light duty, which is 0w20. If you put your engine under severe load, consider a thicker oil. It really is as simple as matching your engine use case to oil weight.

There is no “one oil.”

Merry Christmas Eve. To those who are doing well today, enjoy your friends, family, and time. For those that are struggling, you are not alone.

 

I'm really not trying to stir the pot, because even if you were to take a 200k motor run entirely on 0w20 and another 200k motor run on 5w30 and see which has more or less wear, there's still an infinite amount of other variables to take into account.
I do not think that I'm more correct than anyone on this, I just think oil weight, and oil change intervals are a huge marketing ploy for fuel economy ratings and as a selling point for requiring less maintenance.
If I was in the market for a used tacoma and I knew one was run its whole life on the factory recommended intervals with factory recommended weight oil, I'd still consider buying it. I don't consider sticking to the manual neglect by any stretch. But I will say that I don't have to blindly agree with a service manual or owners manual to take care of my own vehicle.

 

Not trying to stir the pot. Just wanted to add that what is in the manual could be forced to be there based on how they tested the mpg. Not because they think that specific viscosity is best.

I am still not suggesting anything. However, I don’t blindly follow the US manual just because I live in the US. I follow the chart from the Mexico manual as it’s the most logical option. I don’t and won’t ever tell others what they should run, it’s their choice. I will try to inform when they argue that there is only one choice, however.

 

surprisingly, this has stayed pretty friendly. I don't want to fight with anyone either, and I think we've all done a pretty good job of stating our points without being raging douche canoes.

 

Yep, I completely agree with that.