Looking for 6 Speed Help

Alright, I figure these forums are quite a bit more knowledgeable than the facebook groups
I have a 2008 6 Speed DCSB, and I am having some issues with my trans that are really more of an annoyance.
The previous owner "says" he installed an LCE heavier flywheel and a new clutch about 20k miles ago now. I have the 6 Speed TOB noise pretty badly, only when the clutch pedal is NOT depressed. It is almost a knock noise, and goes away as soon as the clutch is depressed.
My main complaint is that the truck is very irritating to get moving. It has a very heavy shudder to it, and it sometimes does some funky stuff where it feels like it falls flat on its face the second that the clutch is fully released in first gear. Also sometimes I cannot get it to go into 1st, or reverse. When this happens if I stick it in 3rd or 4th for a second and then go back to 1st or reverse it will go into gear fine. It will engage into all gears perfectly with the truck off. Also feel some resistance and a "clunk" occasionally when I engage first gear. Also sometimes in 2nd and third gear at lower rpm I can hear like an audible grinding that goes away with RPM. Not when engaging gears, only when accelerating. Almost sounds like clutch noise of some sort. I have had some weird fears of the clutch going out, but I haven't ever smelled burning clutch or noticed any slipping whatsoever,
I was originally going to wait until my clutch went out to address this since I live in a county where there is only 2 stoplights, but I recently had to take a trip to the city and I hated my life.
What sort of issue am I looking at here?
I just did a drain and fill on the transmission with MT90 to see if there was metal in my oil from gears or synchro's, and the fluid looked great. Had very little metallic stuck to the plug and looked almost new fluid. (I do understand synchro material wouldn't stick to the magnet but I didn't visibly see any as I was draining in a wide pan.)
The clutch accumulator is still intact, and to be quite frank the only reason it is there is because I am not 100% sure how to bleed the system since it shares a reservoir with the brakes (sport model).
Also kind of embarrassing, but this is my first "normal" manual vehicle as a daily driver so maybe the shudder part has to do with being new. I have driven a ton of stickshift crawler Jeeps growing up, and a lot of stickshift Cummins trucks and never had an issue. I thought for a while that it might need a driver mod, until I drove another 6 speed truck that felt nothing like mine. The other truck I drove would move without pressing the accelerator, and had no shudder. Mine, not so much. The shudder goes away if you slip the clutch a little bit.... okay maybe more than a little bit, like 1500-1800 rpm to get moving bit. So I kind of have suspicions that the previous owner may have put hotspots in the new flywheel after installing due to not following a break in. I only say this because I bought the truck with airbags on the rear, and later found out that he owns a business building tiny campers... so maybe he threw the new flywheel in and put hotpots in towing with it? I don't know. Just ideas that I've thought of. I know I am not the first person to have 6 speed issues so figured I would reach out. Thank you all in advance. PFA.

 

There is this thing called BLUF - bottom line up front. Put a synopsis before throwing out a ton of info.

Is there a question we can help you with? That wall of text is a lot.

 

Yes. 6 speed sport, very shuddery clutch in 1st gear, along with TOB noise, and grinding type noise in 2nd and third, which goes away with RPM. Truck sometimes will fall flat on face in first gear after fully releasing clutch pedal. Annoyed with truck in city. Sorry for wall o text.

 

Sounds to me like the clutch might be going.

 

There’s a lot that can be said about this. But I’d first start with accumulator delete, replace slave cylinder with metal one, pressure bleed, and good gear oil if it’s not in there already. Maybe replacing shifter plastic cup and greasing it.

DOT4 LV might be better than regular DOT4. I plan to try it eventually.

current setup is URD heavy flywheel, CM HydroTOB, stage 2 clutch. Tilton is probably better.

never tried other “upgrades” like URD TOB and sleeve. CM seemed like a better option at the time in comparison when it came out.

from what I understand, one issue is the stock fork (that’s expensive to replace but maybe should be) activates at an angle, and stock geometry has the mechanical bearing be preloaded. And not really maintenance allowed, like hard to grease it.

so simply replacing a stock shit TOB with a slightly bigger one didn’t really sound like a fix to me.
I know others have gone that route. Not sure how theirs have held up so far or how long it’s been.

did the pedal bite point adjustment under the dash per instructions. I believe it requires a stubby 12 and 14 wrench. I keep those in the truck as they’re cheap and I’ve done the adjustment many times, usually at operating temp. As that’s where the truck spends the most time. Another cheap or free thing you can try.

I don’t think the stock clutch and pressure plate is strong enough to tow. When I towed with it, it didn’t go well.
But I also didn’t have 2LO mod that would’ve helped when I had to back up far.

hopefully you don’t have shudders coming from anywhere else. Such as another part of the driveline.

I also had slop in the motor knocking around from worn stock mounts and went with Solid Offroad.

RedLine MT90 has a reputation that many have experienced including myself. Which is that it’s great when not, but not the smoothest fluid when cold.
I think I switched away from that reason. If it’s a hot day and you’re beating the shit out of a fast German car, great. My truck? Not so much.
Even German car folks who experience any kind of weather end up switching away from it.
I forget but I think I put in Amsoil 75w90 whatever their site calls for.

 

I think so too.

 

Start by checking your clutch pedal free play. If that's okay then it sounds like either the clutch hydraulics are getting weak or the clutch install was done poorly and/or with improper parts. See if you can sneak a peak inside the bellhousing and look for anything obviously wrong. Either way I would prepare to drop the transmission

 

Bluf your going to need to pull it all out and see where it's F..KED...N..FIX it...

 

Mine did the exact same thing and bypassing the clutch accumulator fixed the shuddering. I used a Honda S2000 steel braided clutch line and it was a direct fit. Do it, you won't regret it. Feels like a normal manual trans vehicle now. The accumulator sorta makes the clutch feel mushy and bypassing it makes the clutch feel like you're more connected to the mechanicals of the truck, if you know what I mean.

Sadly, it won't fix the TOB chirp, though.

 

If I drop the trans to mess with the clutch it’s a days worth of work. That’s not the not fun part because it’s free.

it’s the cost of good parts that’s not fun.

cheaper option is stock. I’ve had Exedy from RockAuto. They sell a LuK flywheel cheap that I’ve heard a case or two of the teeth messing with starter engagement.

or finding an OEM flywheel and having it resurfaced at a machine shop. Since new they’re expensive. Couldn’t even get $50 for mine so I tossed it.

But the thing is even though those parts are cheaper they’re probably not the best for hard use.

even the URD heavy flywheel (if it’s even available) is said to be better in traffic and I agree.

me I do wheel, tow, and plan to keep the truck.

worst case you get in there, assess the condition of your parts, and find your flywheel can potentially be resurfaced. Or if you slap another one in there then you keep the old one if it’s in decent condition and possibly either sell it as that or have it resurfaced then sell it.
Hopefully no dowel pins fell out.

rumor has it early RA60Fs did not get blue loctite on bolts holding in reverse fork. I’ll assume that hasn’t happened and hope the synchros are fine. I think I also added a magnetic drain plug to mine.

another thing that can happen is making the mistake of depressing the clutch during a water crossing instead of staying in gear. One way to “fix” that if suspecting contamination is to pull the inspection cover, hold the clutch down with a pry bar (cold), and spray rinse it out with a hose. Then maybe heat to dry it or park and air dry.

towing is hard on it. Especially if not regeared. And especially if doing hard low speed maneuvers like backing up stop go without a spotter, up hill, with speed bumps, trying to not smack a car with a trailer.

so another wise thing to do would be either 2LO mod or in my case what I plan to do eventually, put in an FJ tcase. I already have the tcase but I need to sort it out on the bench first regarding mod needed to fit twin stick. Then put it in, cut the hole, make sure it has ADD delete shaft on it, and hope all the gear levers aren’t hitting each other. And figure out where they’d even pop up out at. And if other stuff is needed like a boot.
It’ll probably disable one cup holder.
That right there would offer 2LO mechanically.

-for off roading if you don’t need front traction and don’t want to bind up the steering
-tow scenarios such as above

Actually I misspoke. Not the slave. Though you may want to replace that too. I meant the clutch master behind the pedal. Sorry had them confused as having done HydroTOB I only have one cylinder now, that one behind the pedal.
Mine looked fine. But the dark shit that came out of it was not.
A tried and true method of pressure bleeding is a Motive kit with adapter. Much cheaper than a $1000 electric or pneumatic shop machine.

old was plastic. New was metal. Taking out the old one it gave the impression it was dissolving over time. Brake fluid is harsh shit after all and it was in there a long time. Not including a seal inside the bore.



Could be a good time to put longer stainless brake lines compatible with lift if you haven’t already, since you’ll have the bleeder hooked up.

though it may not have to be. The circuits are probably not shared given the clutch system feeds off of a supply line coming from the reservoir, which should always be kept full.

 

If you need to replace the clutch, Luk has always been a reliable clutch in my experience and is usually available on Rockauto. They just take a long time to break in, around 2000kms. Otherwise unless your flywheel is blue, I usually just walk around the contact area with a roloc disk. After the roloc you'll see if it's burnt up but, with the symptoms you provided I doubt you'll have issues reusing the flywheel

 

Simple issue of air in the lines can happen, certainly did with my old rig. Once I got rid of the accumulator the truck drove worse by far. A couple bleeds and slamming the brakes on slippery surfaces to get ABS to engage, bleeding again, and Bob's your uncle after adjusting the clutch. Still not perfect, but more exact engagement.

 

I don’t know if messing with ABS does anything. It doesn’t hurt to cycle it like you said. But every car uses the same ABS module supplier.

for example in the case of Audi. Repair manual states bleed brakes 10-20psi. But up it to 30psi if you need to bleed the ABS. That’s it. Doesn’t say engage it.

which in theory could be DIYd on a 2nd gen with tech stream.

the only concern is usually whether the system can handle that high of a pressure above normal (30psi) in the case of an old car that has a stale dry discolored reservoir which can easily rupture and leak when exposed to that pressure, if not replaced with a fresh clear new one beforehand.

like in the case if someone accidentally runs it dry getting air into the ABS. Etc

have seen people crack the lines at ABS when bleeding as well but never done this myself and would probably make a mess.

kind of wish my truck didn’t have ABS at all. It doesn’t seem like a very good ABS that helps stop. It just seizures.

 

The URD TOB kit is pretty slick. I've installed one on a friends 6mt and will be doing that on mine when it comes time. I will also be installing a Aisin clutch too.

 

better than stock.
At the end of the day RA60F doesn’t seem to be a leave it in the car type of trans.

had mine out twice already and can pull it by memory. I’m sure there will be a third time

 

I have heard of and watched videos of guys that disable ABS. I haven't found it to be very useful. Generally engine break.

Should add for the thread:
Clutched replaced in my truck @185k with Asin. Flywheel LUK. URD TOB+Sleeve added. Glad I bought one. The input shaft had some wallowing from the old failing bearing. The chirping returned around 215k. Alas. Grabbed a URD short shifter after dealing with the fluid-side issue. Halfway pleased over all. No easy answer, OP.
Long answer is a T56.
Maybe find someone to fashion a longer input shaft thereby allowing for a pilot bearing.

 

folks seem to have good luck switching to the RC62 which apparently has a replaceable sleeve, and/or Tilton hydroTOB

just, more time and money to do that, not to mention cost of an RC62

not sure what good clutch parts are out there. I have URD heavy flywheel and their stage 2 clutch kit but I don’t really see it on their website anymore and the flywheel was hard to get.

 

if you can't shift 1st and 2nd gear definitely you need to drop the trans and change the clutch plus URD TOB will be help with the noise..

if you don't want spend for URD TOB you better get all OEM part because all aftermarket clutch kit little bit thinner then OEM clutch, that's why TOB vibrate make a noise..

I use light flywheel plus URD state 3+ with out URD TOB and my TOB make little noise or vibrate whenever I don't press the clutch.