Driving pet peeves

From Crossley Law:

Another familiar scenario is making a left turn at a busy intersection with a traffic signal where there is no light (such as an arrow) to specifically designate a turn. When making a left turn at a standard traffic signal, it is acceptable to “claim” the intersection by entering the intersection when the light turns green and waiting for oncoming traffic to clear before attempting to complete the turn. Sometimes the light may turn red before you actually get the chance to attempt the turn; though this may seem worrisome, it is okay to continue waiting until oncoming traffic stops and to then safely make the turn. Traffic laws state that oncoming traffic must yield for a car waiting in the intersection to turn.

https://crosleylaw.com/blog/breakdown-left-turn-scenarios-importance-keen-attention/

 

If you can see their rear tires touch the road, that’s enough room.

 

You've got great points. Hearing a case first hand counts, a lot!
But I'll argue that you can see if it is clear to cross on-coming traffic from the stop line, exactly the same as from the middle of the intersection. You are still on your side of the road, so the view doesn't change.
The on-coming left turn cars have to follow this rule too, so they should not be out in the intersection blocking your view (extra blocking, that is).

Yes, Steps (a)-1 should be followed to the letter. As should Step 2, with the understanding that you don't enter the intersection unless it is clear to proceed all the way through it. That is all Step 2 is saying. No where does it say to stop IN the intersection.

The yield to right-of-way also does not say to stop in the intersection. If you follow the rule which says "not to enter the intersection unless you can proceed all the way through it safely" you WOULD be yielding to pedestrians and other vehicles before you ever entered. That is the whole point of that sentence.

 

I am hearing impaired. Not deaf but bad enough. What I hate is seeing guys driving for 5 miles with their turn signal on. I know the feeling when I make a turn and the turn signal doesn't shut off. Until you notice the little blinking dash light you just keep driving. You cant hear the blinker and you assume the signal shut itself off. I usually hold the turn signal in my hand and make sure its off but once in a while I am the guy driving like that for a block or two. Its embarrassing. I wish the auto manufacturers would come up with a system that stops after the turn is completed.

 

Well, you'd think, coming from a Law Office that they'd know what they are talking about.
I'll keep looking through those links they provided.

This statement in particular: "Traffic laws state that oncoming traffic must yield for a car waiting in the intersection to turn" is of special interest!
If I can find that specific law, things might change.

As far as "Claim" the intersection sentence. Bullshit. No regulation is going to be written to say that. Jeeze-o, I can clearly see a Homless Junkie making camp in the middle of the intersection - spouting that the law says he can "claim" it. (Extreme off the wall, I know. But isn't that how it goes now days?)
Honestly, until I dig through the links provided, I am not going to write Crosely Law and tell them they goofed.
And I will agree that if I rammed a car stopped in the intersection waiting for a clear left turn, then I should be ticketed. (but as far as I know, still today, so should he for stopping there).

 

Nice try.
The Trooper calls it out as LEGAL. BUT... BUT... BUT...then goes right into saying it is illegal!:
“So, if you’re going to ease out into an intersection prior to making your left turn just understand one thing, if you get stuck within that intersection the violation falls on you. If you can remember to never ease out (into an intersection) unless you can finish the turn, maybe this will spread to other drivers also,” he added.

This is what I said in the beginning, except I said "don't", he said "should not":
"He wants everyone to remember that you should not begin a traffic maneuver, such as a turn, unless you can finish it, “especially within an intersection.”

 

This is starting to feel like one of those things where someone tells me that skipping while drinking a beer is illegal on Tuesday as per an unrepealed law from 1793.

I've never seen this kind of thing enforced outside of NYC inside of specifically marked intersections (Don't Block the Box). Does anyone have examples of being ticketed for stopping in an intersection while making a left outside of that hyperspecific example?

 

This is a direct quote from a link that Crosley Law provided:

The issue of waiting in an intersection is a little tricky. The law specifically prohibits stopping in an intersection. However, subsection (f) of the same law makes an exception "if the avoidance of conflict with other traffic is necessary." Therefore, the following sections cover the two conflicting issues regarding when to wait in an intersection. Paradoxically, many people do exactly the opposite of these.

I see the "avoidance of conflict..." being something like: a texter coming up behind you and you move into the intersection to get out of his collision path. I do not see it as moving up just to sit & wait.

This law office sees it as "not turning into oncoming traffic". *** REALLY?! If you just stopped at the stop line, as designed, then you would not be turning into oncoming traffic either! What a moronic statement.

Yes, if you start your turn (are in the intersection) and then see a missed oncoming car, of course you STOP in the intersection. Duh! But it wasn't on purpose and hopefully miss seeing oncoming traffic doesn't happen very often. The law says to not stop in an intersection. Done deal.

*** Here is the dumb comment from the lawyer:
Waiting to turn left
Sometimes, you come to an intersection where you want to turn left and there's a flashing yellow arrow or a green through signal but no green arrow. You may have seen people pull into the intersection and wait to turn left there and wondered, is that legal? The answer is, yes, it is. But how is this legal when §545.302(a)(3) specifically prohibits stopping in an intersection? In this case, subsection (f) makes an exception "if the avoidance of conflict with other traffic is necessary". If you were to turn left in front of oncoming traffic, that would be conflicting with that traffic. Therefore, stopping so as to not conflict with oncoming traffic fulfills subsection (f), which then exempts you from the (a)(3) prohibition on stopping in an intersection. But if you're still in the intersection when the light turns red, wouldn't that then be considered running a red light? No, because you lawfully entered the intersection on a green and other traffic must by law allow you to clear the intersection before they can go (§544.007 (b)).

• 
  
  
  • First of all, don't do this if the street you want to turn onto is congested and backed-up to the intersection or nearly so (see "Don't block intersections" below.)

 

Nope. No examples.
I just called it out as "Don't count someone following the rules of the road as a Pet Peeve."
If they are driving safe and legal, give them a tip-o'-the-hat instead of a blast from the horn.

There are way too many feckin' morons on the road. We should never bash the good ones, just because it delays us 5 more minutes.
Imagine if everyone followed ALL of the driving and traffic rules perfectly? Damn, driving could be nearly as safe as air travel! (Nothing is perfect)

 

I think you might be conflating this with the other debate you're having with the others in this thread. I'm talking about a center left turn lane that continues through a continuous road (no stop light or stop signs), and an intersecting turn coming out of an adjacent street/parking lot.

center left turn lane vs dedicated left turn lane at an intersection. see the pic I posted towards the bottom of the last page if that clears things up. Post #1574

 

The law says not to stop in an intersection, but then provides this exception, hence, not illegal.

I don't know the law office, personally. I was just referencing one of the ones I found that corroborate my interpretation.

It's something I have to do daily on my route to work. There's a light in downtown Dallas that you would never get a left turn without entering the intersection. There is just too much oncoming traffic to ever let you through. Hence my original post of frustration when people don't do it. For what it's worth there are a number of police in the area every morning. Dallas PD certainly doesn't view it as a violation. And this from the group that actually tickets jaywalkers.

 

Yep, it is practiced everywhere. I understand your frustration.
I absolutely hated Dallas traffic. Drove in from Plano every day, worked all throughout DFW area, and the damn ice storms there were just nuts! Houston traffic was worse but without the ice. (Quite a few years have passed though, so no idea of now days.)

That "exception" you mentioned is not legitimately detailed by that law office. Really, really poor example trying to explain it. But, obviously there is an exception. I'll wager sitting & waiting to save time does not meet that criterion. Hopefully Dallas PD won't ever bother to notice.

(I got caught in a city park by DPD with a pair of nunchakus one night. He told me "Those are very, very, very, very illegal." (Really emphasized the "very"). Then he just let me go. Lucky SOB me.)

 

We will just have to agree to disagree. Law enforcement is notorious for not actually knowing the law. That's why I trust the courts.

 

Sounds good to me.
You are spot on about LEO not always knowing the law!
The only problem with the courts is ---- lawyers. They can convolute anything! and sadly, often do.

 

Why do people insist on waiting until the next day to clear snow from their car? Once it freezes overnight, there's no way you're going to be able to clear the roof. Then we have ice missles and entire sheets of ice/snow flying off at 70mph. This is illegal. Amounts to an unsecured load. Just wish I could ticket these a.holes. Lazy ignorant f$%ktards.

 

While true, I find it's almost never enforced. Seen it happen right in front of the police enough times that they don't bother to stop the vehicle..and usually don't clear their own roof either if you want the truth.

 

Are you guys done with the dick measuring about who knows how to turn left yet?

 

Discussing laws is dick measuring? lol

it was over yesterday, way to dredge it up.

Another pet peeve, though I think it was mentioned in the last couple days. People who drive in the fast lane then cut across 3-4 lanes of traffic to make their exit last second.

Similarly, people who know there is a dedicated exit lane, see it backed up, and drive alongside only to cut in where the exit has already deviated from the main freeway.

 

both A-Ok. it always bugs me when I see people start merging way too early and back up traffic sooner than needed because they wanna get over early, rather than just zipper merge properly at the end of their lane.

I know people hate it when i do it on my motorcycle, even if that impedes them less than if I were in a car.

 

I had someone get beat red and visibly angry when I did it a couple weeks back. They kept jumping on the throttle to stop me from merging. Then when I slowed down they hit the brakes, too.

Reminds me of a work trip I took last year to the Inland Empire, it was dark and rainy and someone was driving a black car without their lights on. So I gave them a flash of high beams to tell them to turn their lights on. Well they decided the best course of action was to slam their brakes and bring us both to a near stop on the highway.

Some genuine psychopaths out there.