Scope opinions please

I recently got a new DD AR-10 in 6.5cm and am interested in trying out some long range shooting. I probably won’t go past 1000 yards, but who knows.

I won’t be doing any hunting, just target shooting so size/weight isn’t a concern.

I am mainly considering the Eotech VUDU 5-25 ffp with the tremor 3 reticle or the Leupold mk5 hd 5-25 ffp with the tremor 3 reticle.

Reasons for these two is because I get a pretty radical military discount so the cost isn’t too much of a factor between the two.

For those of you with experience between these two scopes, which would you pick for target shooting? Why?

I know Eotech makes great stuff, I have 3 of their optics already and have used them extensively in the military. I’ve never used Leupold before but their online reviews are great. Any advice is appreciated!

 

Personally I like the turret design and size of the Vudu. You might get better light transmission on the Leupold. If you get the MK5, make sure it's illuminated. It helps when you're shooting at a black targets or into shade.
I have a 12-y-o MK4 and used it for 1k+ yd shooting. It works fine, but has a few notable drawbacks. Leupod is solid, but boring, I think they don't innovate as much as others.

 

I ended up ordering the Leupold. Partly because I have an Eotech 1-10 ffp, Eotech hws, and an Eotech eflx. All are great optics but I wanted to try something different. So Leupold will hopefully be shipping out the mk5 2-25 illuminated tremor 3 early next week.

I’m brand new to long range shooting so I have a lot to learn. Any tips would be appreciated.

 

Next purchase is a good $potting $cope.

 

I was thinking a single stage reloading press to make good ammo that will shoot consistently. Then maybe range finder/spotting scope?

There’s a really nice 1000 yard range about 45-50 minutes away from me. I’ll go there often and get some range time then figure out what I need.

 

Work your way into it. Get consistent at something like 300 yards, then start walking it out 100-150 yards at a time, learning to read the crosswind, figuring how much elevation to crank in, holding steady, breathing techniques, trigger discipline, etc. Make sure you have a consistent and tight cheek weld and that your eye level fits the scope height. Go with the lowest rings you can get that allows the objective lens clear the barrel shroud and choose a barrel shroud that vents the barrel heat to the sides as much as possible. What kind of trigger do you have, single or two-stage? Invest in a good two stage that breaks like a glass rod, crisp and clean. Make sure your scope mount has some built-in elevation, you'll need it at distance. I have a 20MOA Warne mount on my AR Grendel. Even a Creedmoor will have more than 40 MOA of drop at 1000 yards, and most scopes won't have that much elevation available in the reticle. Will you shoot from sandbags or a bipod? Sandbags are steadier, but I'd practice with a bipod as much as possible, if you're in the field it's attached to the rifle and you don't have to lug bags around.

As for loading, buy a ton of brass and try a couple of weight bullets, in a couple of brands, and use secant ogive when possible, they fly better and have a better BC than tangent ogive. Hybrids work well and have advantages of both secant and tangent bullets. 140 grain seems to be the best weight for 6.5CM. Start out in the lower third of the load data, faster bullet doesn't mean more accurate. Working your loads and chronographing them, you'll find a "sweet spot" that works best for your rifle. I do all my loading with a single stage press; I also weigh each and every load by hand, and use a trickler to get the loads within 0.1 grain or less of each other You may also want to play with OAL as much as your rifle will allow, on a magazine fed semiauto you're limited by what will fit in the magazine. Get a calibrated cartridge and measure your leade and experiment with loading to the lands (if you can get a bullet that long and it still fits the magazine) or pulling it back. Some rifles work better one way, some the other.

I'm not familiar with either of the scopes you mentioned. I have a Vortex Viper HST on my Grendel. 6-24X-56mm with an extended VMR-1 reticle (see picture below) The scope is a 2FP, the graduations are accurate for distance estimation at 18X. a 1FP will be accurate at all ranges, but the reticle size varies with magnification. I prefer the 2FP.. Use the glare/mirage extension when you shoot, it helps block mirage from barrel heat.

 

Range finder is nice, but if you go to KD ranges, spend the money on ammo first.
Get a good QD scope mount, 20 moa cant isn't needed for 6.5cm (~9mil/30moa at 1k) depending on turret travel, but nice if you decide to use it on other guns with more drop. A chronograph and ballistic calculator will do a lot develop initial DOPE.
Find a local PRS match once you feel fairly confident. One match will do more for you then a year of simple range trips. Those guys are pretty chill at coaching to shooters.
Reading the wind the hardest thing to learn.

 

Wow, thanks for the info! The factory trigger on my rifle is a standard mil spec. I haven’t been able to shoot it yet but my scope should be in some time next week. I have heard mixed things about that trigger so I’ll likely put in something else.

I also have an atlas prs bipod on the way. I’ll use that for now and shoot prone on the ground. I may put together a bench to shoot on later.

My scope mount doesn’t have any built in moa. Maybe I did my math wrong but here’s what I figured:

With a 200 yard zero, I’m seeing an average of around 300-330 inches of bullet drop at 1000 yards. That means I’ll need 30-33 moa of vertical adjustment to hit 1000 yard targets, right? My scope has 120 moa of total vertical adjustment which gives me 60(ish) up/down depending on what’s needed to zero the scope and re-index the dials. I believe a flat scope mount is good enough, right? Not saying a 10-20 moa mount wouldn’t hurt since shooting between 100-200 yards I won’t need much adjustment in the other direction.

Not that it makes a difference but my scope is in mils so I’ll have to learn all of that. So cm’s at 100 yards vs 1/4” at 100 yards.

 

Your math is good. I use a 20moa ADM with my MK4 and move it between guns all the time. Got the 20moa because I started shooting 1k with custom 5.56 loads and needed a lot of dialing.
MOA is loosing popularity, pretty much all guys you will see on that 1k range will be mil scopes.
A shooting buddy is invaluable for spotting. And you can do most spotting with a good second rifle scope, just dial a little out of focus and you can see the bullet trail. Spotting scope is great, but not essential.
Atlas is a great bipod. Get a diesent stock bag. Personally I don't like to shoot sitting, I get better results prone. Tripod shooting is a great skill.

 

I don’t know anything about a spotting scope other than it’s basically a small telescope. If I don’t have a spotter, will a spotting scope really do me any good to see the shot after the fact? If I’m shooting paper at 1000 yards then zooming in at 50-60x may allow me to see a hole in the target. Otherwise, by the time I pull the trigger then shift to the spotting scope, will there be time to see anything before the bullet impacts? I’m guessing flight time of the bullet is going to be around 4-5 seconds.

 

6.5cm flight time to 1k is about a second, about 3 sec for the sound to come back. If you're good you can see the bullet swig the steel with your rifle scope. I doubt you can move to the spotting scope in time. I doubt you will see a bullet hole on paper much past 500m, maybe on a shoot-n-see target, don't know, never tried. If the steel is fresh paint I can see bullet mark on 1k steel with rifle scope for the first few hits.

For reference, that's though a 24x at 1k.

 

Schmidt and Bender, Nightforce, or US Optics for me for medium to long range

2,500+ yards on my S&B



Although Nightforce is great on short range too

 

Can't go wrong with Vortex.
I've had a Viper PST 4-16x50 FFP, M-Rad reticle on my M1A for several years and it does the job very well.
Their warranty is hard to beat even if you spend twice the money.

 

I put a 5-26x58 Millett on my M1A, reticle is in milliradians, turrets are MOA. It has a 58mm objective and a 35mm tube, sucks in light like a black hole. It's heavy, but so is the rifle and I don't plan on humping it through the boonies. All in all it is a great scope, especially in low light (illuminated reticle, too) but I like the Vortex better. At least I think it works better on the AR, I haven't tried swapping them.

 

I'll add my vote to Vortex.

On my .308 AR-10, I'm currently running the Vortex Strike Eagle 3-18x44 FFP (MOA) — great features and glass for a decent price.

https://vortexoptics.com/vortex-strike-eagle-3-18x44-ffp+reticle-EBR-7C~MOA

You can get it for a song on several discount sites with your military credentials.

 

Is that a Sadlak mount?

 

Have you shot at a multi-diatance range and dialed for drop? My MK4 was originally mil/moa. It gave me finer adjustments but I got confused quickly trying to dial between targets in MOA while looking at a mil reticle.
Leupold was nice enough to take the scope back and swap the turretns to it's mil/mil.

 

I didn't pay much attention to the milrad marks on the reticle. My spotter (shooting at 800 yards) saw the hit and said "xxx inches low". Knowing the range to target already, I just added enough MOA clicks and fired again and got another read from my spotter whether I was on target or not. For me, milrad is good for estimation of range based on target size, but I adjust based on MOA because it is consistent math over distance (1" @ 100, 2" @ 200, etc). If I can get 1.5 MOA groups at whatever range I'm at over 600 yards, I'm happy. My Grendel is more accurate than the M1A, although it has greater drop over distance.

 

Don’t mean to Thread Jack.. but I like your Avatar…
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Fulton Brookfield Type DMR mount. Three points of contact, two points of attachment (side of the receiver and stripper clip dovetail). The rail is dished so you can still use the iron sights out to about 150 yards, then the front of the rail blocks the front sight.