Question about replacing my 5-speed MT clutch in my 2000 2.4L 2WD base Tacoma

The words to the wise you found on rp-342 are accurate. I was severely lacking in ppe but I was in no rush as last time I did it over the duration of the night as I was staying awake to prepare for night shift so I would take a breather outside between coats or cans. It is messy the first time you use it and overspray can be excessive.

Thats a neat starter. My camry has one like that but i've never opened up one like that. The ones i've opened have had a planetary gear set in them for a reduction with the motor inline with the pinion. If the oring is a little old, your favourite sealant can probably help it do the job. Either way starters don't like water or brake clean wildly sprayed on them when they're installed. I've seen and personally killed a couple starters from brake cleaning them alone to clean oil that spilt on them from engines with the oil filter mounted above them. Now I just wipe them and let the remainder stay there. You'll be alright since you disassembled yours for cleaning.

If you need to replace anything, mainly the Carbon Brushes, try to source those from Toyota if you can. After market brushes work but Toyota brushes I swear last forever. Also don't forget to clean the grooves between the commutator bars. Often remanufactured starters and alternators skip that step and leave you with a part that doesn't fully work. At which point you either have to exchange it and try again or take it apart, technically voiding your warranty and cleaning or in some cases cutting the slit deeper between the commutator bars.

That's interesting with the ball being an economy method of sealing machined passages... Your engine has been in operation for a while, i'm sure most if not all the debris has entered and left circulation already over the years... knowing when to close your eyes however is a good skill or it's easy for every oil change to end up in a rebuild.

Good luck at the Doctor's, hope everything comes up Millhouse

 

Even with your good luck going into my Doctor visit, my bad luck ended me in the ER till almost 2 AM Saturday morning, due to my own stupidity, and that wiped out work for Saturday, having had no sleep. I had said something about slight difficulty breathing during the Dr visit (I knew better, but it slipped out; Duke has a reputation to defend when it comes to the heart), and when she pulled an ECG, she and the machine operator both remarked about how great the ECG looked. . . Much later, we were ready for bed at 9 PM when the phone rang. It was the doctor. Evidently, there either was or was not something on the ECG that wasn't (or was) on one I had in the past, and the Cardiolist she had passed the ECG to, to read it, remarked about a slight difference he observed to the PCP. Diligent CYA PCP put the remark about slight difficulty breathing together with the observed change in the ECG together and hit her panic button, telling me I had to rush to the ER immediately right before going to sleep. In her mind, she was heading off a heart attack possibly in progress. I was unhappy (angry) about that, but what was I going to do. If I refused her I would get labeled for refusing an order from the PCP, and that stays on your medical record forever. It was funny when the attending lady Physician at the ER blurted out "Why are you here?" She had been told to perform a treponin series (draw blood three times, an hour apart). Treponin (a cardiac enzyme) is their key cardiac marker that indicates active stress of the heart. Well it wasn't showing anyting bad going on, and the whole thing was for nothing but CYA, yet directly owing to my stupid remark. My wife spent 5 years there at Duke as a cardiac critical care nurse before getting her masters in clinical research management degree and moving to the clinical reasearch part of Duke to use her nursing skills in clinical research, but she knows all about heart care at Duke University Medical Center, and I, through her, also know a lot about the heart, so that's why I know I shouldn't have opened my mouth.

That's one thing, and let me get this next one off my chest before continuing. I was watching YouTube videos on rebuilding starter motors when I stumbled across a video that caught my interest. Why, I really don't remember, but I did find it interesting. The thing is, the guy talking was going on and on about why he left the dealership. After a good number of minutes I realized that all of the things he was saying would likely resonate strongly with your feelings about working at the dealership, flat rate, and so on. His discussion of warrantee work and how it serves to cheat his paycheck must have been what you were telling me. I believe I heard him say something like "there are probably no good automobile technicians still working at the dealerships," or something close, before he launched in to his monolog that went on and on for a long time, just letting his stacked set of observations unload, one by one, and he had so many. He provided his complete resume along the way, so you know how much energy, like attending college classes and working at the same time, being in school forever, taking certifying tests every so many years, which reqires more study each time, he had put into becoming the best auto technician he could be, then the current industry being the way it is, it sapped all of his energy, and expecially his enthusiasm, so he vowed to exit that world for good, and move to something else, and he had a couple of changes like that. You can tell that he was a good mechanic and proud of his accomplishments, but the actual working world had done him in. He was particularly offended by a job position called maybe "Service Manager"? that the dealership has kind of "in charge" of the service area, and he now is disconnected from being a worker bee technician, and that job position has become mostly a salesman, and he makes a lot more money than the technicians. . . does that sound familiar?

Anyway, I can't provide the URL, but will give you the title so you can retrieve it to watch: "Subaru doesn't want you to know this // Why I left the dealership." The channel is CM Autohaus. That video was put up 9 days ago. It had 171K views (that's a lot for an auto video) and he has 11.6 K subscribers. I enjoyed listening to the guy and sympathized with him.

I have a starter repair kit on the way from RockAuto, but it is for the solenoid section, replacing the electrodes that get hell carrying all the starting current, in short bursts.

Yeah, I have continued taking apart and cleaning the starter (no pictures this time, but will later). The field housing fits into pieces at either end, and where those pieces join there are large diameter o-rings (with rectangular cross-section) to seal out the intrusion of water, or other liquids. I wanted to replace them because both ends of the field housing where they fit are showing more rust than they should, and I would like to make sure that doesn't happen going forward, so I got up this morning and (in my pajamas) climbed into my computer chair and began the "search" (meaning the PITA process/effort to find a needed part that is available at a low enough price from a seller I can trust that can ship it to me in reasonable time). The good news is that it wasn't hard to find the Toyota part numbers. The bad news is that I had to actually go shopping for the lowest price because I could find very low prices in Japan but delivery times might be a problem since I want to get it put back together so I can install it at this point in the overall rebuilding process. And the lowest price I could find was at a place I don't konw much about AutoPartsPrime.com. The days of knowing that one discount Toyota dealer is the lowest price (McGeorge) is over, since they got bought out by one of the biggest Toyota dealership conglomerates in the US (Ourisman). At a place called TrustPilot.com I found a few decent reviews of AutoPartsPrime, so I can see they are reputable, but since they are small or have only been in business a fairly short time, I need to make sure they actually mean the parts are "in stock" when their website says they are. So, I left them an email asking them exactly that, "do you actually have the parts in stock for immediate delivery," before I place an order. The last thing I want is to think I am getting a good price, but once I place the order find out that what they do is accept my money first and only then do they go out to their suppliers to get the part shipped to them and then they turn around and ship it to me, like LCEengineering did to me with the flywheel bolts (they claimed to have 1 set in stock, but didn't. There are actually people doing that on the internet, so you have to really be careful.

When they answer my email, hopefully tomorrow, I can then have the o-rings on the way.

And after spending all that time, I read your posting and feel that perhaps what you were saying about the o-rings was that with the new Permatex aviation sealant (it arrived and is contained in a zip-lock kind of package because some of it spills out in transit), I should be able to seal whatever I want, including the o-rings, so it might have been possible to reuse the old o-rings, along with that sealant? And if that is true, then the sealant should be used with the new o-rings as well, to make sure the seal is lasting? Or should I try to save the money? Appreciate your advice about not using brake clean on a working starter motor. I hope I can remember that.

About the commutator bars, right on. I did clean the commutator and afterwards took a look at the spaces between each commutator segment and saw some stuff growing in between many of the segments. Looked like metal. So, I took a sharp metal dental pick and pulled it down through each of those passage-ways, one at a time, happilly cleaning all the junk out. I was happier than a pig in s__t when it stuck me that I should make sure that in doing the cleaning, I did not bridge any two adjacent commutator segments, making them electrically continuous. In my mind, I remembered that each commutator is electrically distinct from the next segment of the commutator. So, my first thinking was that checking for continuity between any two adjacent commutator segments should not show electrical continuity, but when I measured, they were continuous, and I got very anxious thinking that maybe I shoudn't have used the metal pick so vigarously???

So, I looked at the FSM. It shows testing for continuity between adjacent segments, and it expects to find continuity. WTF? Then I got a schematic of the way that field coils are wired up, and there it was, the field coils actually connect all of the commutator segments together electrically, the fact that the actual segments are isolated one from the other is because the function of the brushes sweeping across the commutator segments is to reverse the flow of current through the field coils, which gives you alternating current and a continuous magnetic force to keep the armature spinning along with good force, enough to start your ICE. Anyway, my starter commutator is good to go.

Then the FSM gives several more tests that you have to do to make sure the starter is going to perform correctly. One of those tests is to measure the depth of the gap between any two commutator segments. It isn't very deep, but you need to measure it and ensure it isn't too deep. My caliper depth gage isn't thin enough to slip it down into that small crack. I will have to find something thin enough that will fit in there and somehow make a mark exactly where it meets the surface and then use the caliper, if the mark can be made accurate enough.

Lucky that I bought a pair of v-blocks, so I can measure the runout of the commutator. There is a lot to do when rebuilding a starter motor correctly.

Oh, I almost forgot. That reminds me, the SKF 99346 Speedy Sleeve shaft fixer arrived. I was so excited when I opened the box and got a good look at the sleeve and tool my wife noticed and asked me why I was so happy. I told her how wonderful it was that you introduced me to that product so now I can feel confident that I can make good seals on both the front and rear of the crankshaft. I am anxious to try it out.

I had been seeking Toyota OEM replacement parts for the starter assy before you suggested (encouraged) that I only use OEM. I think you mentioned the brushes in particular. I haven't yet measured the brushes according to the FSM, but agree that I should look for Toyota OEM replacements. That's usually a good idea. The ex-Toyota Master Technician who has the channel called "The Care Care Nut" goes overboard in encouraging his viewers to always use OEM Toyota parts. However, if I always chose OEM Toyota, I might starve. : ) I think you have to be thoughtful about when you can break that rule. One example is the clutch kit I purchased, which was AISIN, a company that makes clutch parts for Toyota, but the AISIN clutch kit I bought was not OEM Toyota. They are no longer available, so it made the decision easy for that one.

How is life in Alberta?

 

Oh geez, going to the hospital isn't ever fun. I didn't know they could flag you for going against a doctor? I guess also healthcare down there isn't "free" so it makes sense that things work differently down there. Better safe than sorry I guess. Up here they'd probably let a statement of "difficulty breathing" fly right over their heads unless it was your main concern.

I'll for sure check out that video when i'm done my set of working here but I can picture it already. The complaints of working in the auto repair industry, especially at dealerships, is a common one around. Just the other day I heard from my insider at the dealer I worked at that the whole Service advisor team except for one quit on the spot along with 5 out of 23 mechanics, both the lube techs and a receptionist. The very short version of the story is someone found out the courtesy shuttle driver gets paid more than a service advisor. The service manager is the manager of the service department. There is also a general manager that oversees the whole dealership which consists of (fleet sales if applicable)service, parts and, sales departments. Regardless of that though, if the environment at the dealership was better I'd probably still be there pulling wrenches. Atleast 50% of the people where I work now came from the dealership. Including the manager of my present employer and some office staff from the dealership that transferred to office staff here. I'll check out the video, it'll be like a support group presentation.

It's been a while since i've viewed the theory of a motor/generator so i'm kind of hazy but I believe the purpose of the commutator bar depth spec is to basically tell you if the commutator bars are worn down too much and in need of replacement. The starter did work before disassembly so I can only see it working better now that it's cleaned out. The dope coating is fairly robust so I also don't think you would of taken the depth too far. From what I remember though, as long as the edges don't catch the brushes as the rotor rotates I don't think there is a downside to a deeper gap. As you pointed out in different words, the purpose of the gap is to break up the current flow to allow for proper timing to the appropriate coil to keep the rotor spinning.

In the event ever of not being able to track down carbon brushes for things, some electronic stores, hobby stores or rc stores sell carbon brushes. They'd just have to be spliced into the holder. If seals and orings can't be had, bearing stores will be able to get them. I'm not sure your options in the states specifically but I'm will to bet my first born you'd have more options than myself. Only place I know of, atleast in my town is called Motion Canada. They primarily sell for industrial applications and specialize in all kinds of bearing, sleeves, seals, etc but, they also sell to "hobbyists" like myself. That's where I recently got my bearing and seal from for my distributor rebuild along with in the past i've just walked in with a bearing I knocked out of an idler pulley and they've either measured it on the spot or read the part number if they could and got me a matching replacement in the brand of my choice.

I've been working alot still lately so I apologize for the delayed response and the delay that's incoming here. When I get more downtime i'll continue responding

 

What you will read below, if you do, is misguided. It shows I had a misconception about the brushes operation and was seeking your help. Contrary to what I say below, there is no problem, and I am going back to see how fast I can finish rebuilding the starter. I am leaving what is below because I hate doing all that work, only to delete it. There may be some value there that isn't apparant at the moment.

=======================================

I need your help determining whether and how to change the brushes. First, take a look at what the FSM says in its section about checking all the things needed when you rebuild the starter (8 pages of Starter tests required by the FSM):



So, they want you to remove all four brushes and in doing that you have disconnected the brush holder. Then this:



My starter is the 1.4W version, so the standard length of each brush should be 15.5 mm, and the minumum length is 10.0 mm.
Then it says that if the brush is less than the minimum length, replace both the brush holder and the field frame!? Seriously? That's a lot of stuff to toss out when all you need are new brushes, don't you think? Or is the FSM just directed at the service technician, so if some DIY guy wants to struggle finding replacement brushes and is willing to buy a giant soldering iron to replace the brushes that's on him? This drawing shows those two items they say to throw away, to make sure you and I are on the same wavelength:



I measured one of the four brushes and found it to be 13.9 mm, so it is below the standard length yet still 3.9 mm greater than the minimum, which says that brush is ok. But then I took a close look at how the brush sits in its holder, and the heavy stranded copper wire that comes out the side of the brush looks to me like it would prohibit further brush movement out toward the commutator, which means that no matter how long it measures, there isn't any actual movement length for it to use due to the wire stop. Maybe I am wrong. What do you think? Should I try to replace those four brushes? I am kind of thinking that I should just pretend I didn't see that and go ahead and put the starter back together and let time go by until the day comes when the truck will not start. It was working fine before I tore it down, and I have the o-rings and drain on order, expected any day now.

HOLD IT! It just struck my feeble mind that when I put the commutator back in place, that is going to push the brushes backwards in their holders, which will move the copper braid away from the stop, surely then enough that the additional 3.9 mm measured length of the brush can indeed be utilized. That is why I began the discussion the way I did, saying there is no problem.

Let me show you the photos:



I have done a large amount of cleaning, de-rusting, smoothing, etc. of the parts of the starter, including replacement of the solenoid terminals. As for the brushes, there is yet another test I am supposed to do, measure the spring strength using a "fish scale," a scale you hook on the spring and lift the scale until the spring just barely lifts off the end of the brush, to measure that force. If that force test fails, then you have to replace the springs. That's going to be fun.

When I use my finger to check the brush movement in their respective holders, they all feel like they have reasonable pressure.

I am still trying to find time to answer some issues you posted last time. In fact, I did write a few paragraphs, but something happened and the system had a red banner that told me to reload the page. When it got back, all the writing I had done was gone, despite the fact that the system constantly "SAVES" your draft. Oh, well. . . hope you are ok.

 

Ahoy, just en route to Montana but wanted to get back to you.

Fairly recently i've started watching The Car Care Nut, he's good. There are some things I agree with him on and others I don't. That's expected though. If you ask 10 people how to boil water, you'll probably get 13 different answers. The vast majority of the time I agree that the factory part is the best option but I agree with you that a guy would go broke if every single thing were from the dealership. I'm also presently being reminded of that though as the Mevotech ttx ball joints I installed into my truck (because two were 80$ compared to two lower control arms from Toyota which cost $1100) both have the boots separated from the shell of the ball joint and the boots were "vulcanized" to the shell instead of being secured with a wire ring... I knew better but since Mevotech supplied for gm I figured it would be good for a Toyota.. maybe if I got the once that have the ball joint boot mechanically secured and not chemically secured.

Either way there always a time and place when factory parts are the best option and other times and places where an aftermarket part is sufficient. Present day availability is large factor in the decision making process too.

Alberta is presently doing well given the surrounding circumstances else where in the country. A short term plus is that it's very warm here for the time of year. The last few weeks have been hovering around freezing point so it's pleasant. Down sides is that we haven't had much snow here and in turn there are predictions that 80% of the province will be in drought conditions which i'm sure will be accompanied by another year of "natural" wildfires. All in all though I still like it here and think Alberta is the best place in Canada to be.

How's Life in North Carolina been?

 

I did read ahead and saw that your concern is pretty well remedied.

So I like to think of the inspection section of FSM's as giving you a check for everything to ensure you have all the tools to diag a challenging concern. Say the commutator bars depth spec. That would be a valuable spec if you had an issue of the starter not being able to turn over the engine when installed but if you remove it and bench test it, everything looks okay. Back when the FSM would of been written, mechanics where more used to having to actually check things in depth. Nowadays most guys don't do that due to the flat rate lifestyle in where isn't faster and easier to either replace a battery or starter and see where that gets you instead of taking apart a starter to repair/inspect it because along with the time spent, there is also a risk of causing an issue yourself. Where as if you replace the battery and find the same issue then go for the starter, a guy would get paid for both jobs and "be doing the customer a service" by renewing those parts with new ones... often in new FSM's (which is one of the things i'm not a fan of with them) they'll give you a few checks which basically checks the wiring and excludes the actual component in question and if the wiring checks out good then it'll just say to replace part *blank* and if the problem persist then replace part *blank*. Sometimes you'll have to do that with some issues but I feel the service manual can at times jump to parts replacement prematurely. A real example of that would be a back up camera not working. The diagnostic tree basically just says that if the ecm is reading the vehicle as being in reverse then replace the camera then Video Processing module then Radio display module(screen) until the problem is resolved. Makes zero mention even that the camera coaxial cable could be the issue. Often times too it truly was the issue. Especially on fleet vehicles that were either operated off road or rental cars or water intrusion into a connector. Older manuals would have a "special service tool" which was basically a kit with a known good camera, cable and modules which you basically used to substitute in place of the component suspected at fault so you knew which one was actually the problem before just throwing parts at it.

Reason for saying all that is basically to say that older FSM's like your will often give "too much" information and specs to allow for checking pretty much everything to allow for more proper diag. With experience you kinda know what inspections you should 100% do and what inspections you should do under certain circumstances.

Specifically to them saying to replace the field assembly if the brushes are worn out, i'd guess it's because Toyota designed and is assuming that by the time the brushes wear out the commutator bars will also be worn out from the brushes riding on them or otherwise compromised. I don't always do this, there is a time and place for it but from visiting my family in the Caribbean over the years and my own high school... experiments... i've learned that vehicles are quite forgiving and soo assuming a field assembly would probably cost more than the entire starter(if it can even be purchased) I would be very inclined to just try replacing the brushes if they were worn. If everything else was alright then from what I understand, the carbon brushes are usually the consumable part of a motor. Unless the motor overheated, very abrasive carbon brushes were used or, had an otherwise severe issue, the field assembly should be a "lifetime" part. Eventually it may fail but it's not exactly a consumable part.

For the springs, I like your comparison test. I can't say I would really specifically test the springs unless I saw evidence that the starter overheated at some point and possibly changed the metallurgy of the spring. Since the starter isn't always in continuous operation like a blower motor or fuel pump per say. I feel that the springs were designed in such a way that they not take a set under normal operation unless the brushes were worn too small. They start off compressed and under tension with new brushes. If they took a new set I imagine the starter would be weak due to the springs not being able to apply enough pressure to maintain brush contact on the commutator bars. Is a very useful inspection point though.

A possibly helpful tip i've found for when I couldn't get the brushes to allow for reassembly is to use a strand of wire to hold/tie them out of the way until everything is in it's home. At which point the wire strand can be withdrawn or snipped to allow the brushes to start providing contact again.

 

I am glad you have watched "The Car Care Nut" for a number of reasons, his approach to replacement parts always being OEM (which he sometimes violates, such as when a customer hands him the aftermarket part to install -- haha) being the primary. Also glad you like him, as I also like the guy; he is a highly likable fellow IMO, but also he works extremely hard, unflinchingly (I've seen him take a half-dozen engines out, and put them back, in about a day's time, to do something that required that, and the cars start the first time, every time, so far) so I see him building credibility for all the dealer mechanics the world over (at least Toyota). He came from Iraq, you will eventually learn, and after what the US did there, I am happy to see him come here and succeed with plain hard work and grit and determination. Evidently Toyota must like him as well, for obvious reasons, as he seems to have come from humble beginnings, yet risen quickly from working out of his home garage, with Mrs Car Care Nut filming him, to working in his own well-facilated shop, with Mrs Car Care Nut filming him. I don't really know who does all his filming and editing, but initially it had to have been her, out in their garage. Successful YouTube channels seem (to me) to always have excellent video production capabilities. Like you, I don't like everything he does, but most.

Googled "Mevotech ttx ball joints" and what came back sounded really good. But I continued and eventually the AI stepped in to say:

"According to one review, Mevotech ball joints are decent quality but not as good as Moog Problem Solver. Another reviewer says that Mevotech ball joints were well made and can last 100,000 miles on a truck that drives on dirt and rough roads. One reviewer says that the craftsmanship of Mevotech TTX ball joints is superior to the average part from China."

That last review would not encourage me to become a buyer!

I am wondering if your extremely cold weather might have played a part in them separating early? Just wondering.

But the issue is when to buy aftermarket parts, and that is a really tricky question. I am always trying to save money when buying parts, looking for the cheapest place to buy a part number. The way I look at a part number is that the part represented by that number should be identical to all other parts with the same part number (well, as identical as a manufactured part can be; no two parts can be absolutely identical, but can get very close, and usually close enough). Another way to say that is that you can buy a Toyota part from lots of different places, from list price to one considerably discounted, but all you have to do is give the Toyota part number, and expect to get the correct part. That is the situation when you insist on buying OEM.

As soon as you step into the aftermarket world, you are on your own, and you need to be extremely careful, in a world where that is one of the hardest things we have to do. But, then there do exist parts that are not critical to the overall functioning of your vehicle. You have recommended some helpful ideas already, so I just need to go back through our discussions. Your advice above about "availability" turns out to be a highly significant factor in my case.

Alberta. . . I must admit that I know almost nothing about that province. It looks huge. I had traveled to Toronto a couple of times for business in the past, and my wife has a brother and family up in Montreal, and we have visited them a half dozen times. Except for that, and one trip to Niagara Falls a very long time ago, my experience with Canada is quite limited. That was not on purpose, just happened that way. I see on the map that Alberta is kind of in the mid-west of Canada? Like the US mid-west, is it also largely prarie? I will need to do some Googling to get better acquainted. I know from you that it gets extremely cold there (cold relative to my experience). I hope your concern over the wildfires will not materialize. They are terrible. Was it last year when smoke from the fires in Canada drifted across the entire Northeast of the US. THAT was phenomenal, and never before experienced in my memory. That caused me to realize that Canada and the US are indeed interconnected. My experiences in Canada have all been good. I expecially appreciated the fact that my brother in law came through his cardiac arrest and didn't have a bankrupting hospital bill to pay once back to normal. Down here, if the heart attack doesn't kill you, the hospital bill will.

You said you were making a trip to Montana. Does that mean that you live somewhat close to the border with the US?

North Carolina is a decent place to live. Since it is rectangular, it runs west-east from the Applachian Mountains, down across what is called a "piedmont" (kind of like a plains) and on to the Atlantic ocean, so you can take short vacations in either environment. It is mostly a rural state, and mostly Republican run, but the main backbone is so heavily populated you would think it is all city. Think Interstate highway system, where everything is the same, no matter where you go. There are decent universities: UNC, NC State, Duke, Wake Forest, and a dozen others linked to the UNC system. Research Triangle Institute is close by Durham, where we live. It's built up with corporate high tech laboratories, but all built into deep woods where you can't see them easily. There are military bases on the coast and at least one a bit inland. I was born in Memphis, Tennessee, but was moved to Greensboro at age 2.5, to grow up in what was then called "the deep South".

We like living in North Durham. Came here from Charlotte (NC), and found it peaceful in comparison, although it is still growing so quickly every day, we are looking for a decent piece of land in the Philippines (Samal Island, near where she grew up) for when she retires. I brought her here as a nurse, and she worked for a half dozen years in the cardiac intensive care unit (CCU) at Duke University hospital. That's where she got the experience needed to save her brother's life after he had the heart attack. We rushed to Montreal where she inserted herself into the wake-up team, whose goal is to extubate the patient (take the breathing tube out). They speak French in Montreal, but also English (as a second language), and he speaks Visayan (one of the Filipino languages), so they would stop the "sleep" medicine each day and wait for him to respond, and all that happened was that he showed signs of restlessness, and they would put him back to sleep. Somebody on the rescue team had written that the patient had been down for 5 minutes, which wasn't true, so the surgeons had the expectation that his brain probably had been destroyed. When my wife got there, she spoke in his ear in his native language, DEMANDING (as his sister) that he follow her instructions, and within a couple of hours on the first day she was there they had the tube out and he was on his way to recovery. Funny, he doesn't remember a thing about being in the hospital, but his mind is pretty much all back to normal at this point, and he is doing aerobic exercises, has lost a lot of weight, and is looking forward to going back to work.

 

Thanks for that explanation, Nolan, it makes perfect sense to me how you described the manuals have changed over time. A manufacturer is happy when their cars require replacement frequently, or almost on command. They would also be happy to have their techs replace components with brand new ones, rather than build the components to be fixable, for the same reason, they make more $$$. It doesn't matter to them that they are causing the planet grave harm by having to dig out more material from the earth to make more components or vehicles than is necessary. Their desire to make more profit is insatiable.

Your backup camera example was perfect for showing the problem of throwing parts at a problem. Of course the coaxial cable might have failed, so WTF? Instead of testing that cable first, they are saying that if one new component doesn't fix the problem, throw the next most likely new part at the problem, and if that doesn't work, keep going. In the case of a bad coax cable, you first throw three new parts, and expensive ones at that, at the problem, causing significant cost to the customer, and still you haven't fixed the problem until you either repair the coax connectors or replace the cable entirely. Or am I missing something?

Also thanks for background explanation of the testing details. I had adopted a view something like that when I decided it wasn't worth the effort to do a certain test, and the downside should that parameter be out of spec was not a killer. You are giving me an improved view of what I am doing when doing the work. And I consider that advice especially important, so thank you again. In my head I am hearing the word "THINK".

You were asking yourself whether certain parts of the starter might be available for purchase, or may ever have been. Let me show you a diagram that I copied from PartSuq that shows that all of the internal parts of the starter used in my Tacoma actually did have Toyota part numbers, like everything except the brushes:


That's pretty neat, eh?


Yesterday, when my wife finished her work and came down to the garage, I had three things I wanted her help with. She comes in play when there is something I find too hard to do all by myself, and she seems to enjoy being the only one who can do certain things mechanical. I had tried to assemble the armature commutator into the set of brushes, and at one point, while I was holding the assembly in my hands, it dropped through the field coil down onto the aluminum tray below, where I had many little parts sitting available. When the armature hit the aluminum tray, it also bounced and tossed out ALL of the tiny parts, every single one. I got my light out and scanned the floor and was able to find all of the parts except one, the steel ball bearing that fits into the starter clutch rotating rod that turns to push the pinion gear forward. It gets pushed when the solenoid gets excited and thrusts its' steel rod downward. She is so well organized that she kind of enjoys cleaning things up, and organizing as she goes, and it wasn't so long before I was able to find the steel ball.

Next, we turned to the second thing, pulling all four brushes out at the same time so the brushes could be pushed onto the commutator. With my two fat fingers and her two dainty fingers, we were quickly able to get that job done. And, now I won't need her help any more because of your neat little trick using wires.

The third thing I needed her for was to help get the clip off the splined nose of the rod where the pinion goes, so I could get the thing apart completely. That little wire was a PITA to get off, even with her help, but without I really don't know how I could have gotten it off. She used a tool to hold the pinion back from the clip so I had the complete freedom to work on it. (I had tried clamps, but must have needed better ones.) Finally used a hammer to tap a jewelry screw-driver under the round metal of the clip. I bent the shaft of that screw-driver in the process, but was eventually able to get the clip out enough to use a needle nosed plier to pull it off. I had to use a 12 mm socket to drive the starter clutch rod out, but once out, the whole clutch mechanism was apart, so I could clean it. Joy!

 

Hi Nolan,

I think the rebuilt starter is going to be fine so I have moved on to the rear crank sleeve, where I ran into an immediate problem. I took many pictures of the starter as I rebuilt it, but will not show them unless you ask. Here are two photos that show the completed job.



I used aviation (FIPG) sealant on the internal mating shoulders of the field coil to give a better seal along with the o-rings. When I had first taken them apart, there was considerable tarnishing of the polished aluminum, so I used very fine wet/dry sandpaper to bring them back to clean, under and around the NEW o-rings. Replaced the rubber water drain coming out of the brushes compartment cover you can see at the bottom of the photo. Did a lot of sanding of the outside aluminum to make the whole look and feel of the starter look right to me. I look at the photo now and know that you will not be able to appreciate the work I put into that job. It is a lot better than when I started.

Here is a photo that shows the almost liquid aviation sealant along with the di-electric grease I used water-proof electrical contacts.



The second photo shows the aviation sealant inside its container. Has the look of chocolate syrup, but is nasty stuff when you read the safety data sheet. I found that acetone cuts through it fairly well as a clean up solvent. It was advertised as a gasket making solvent that is thin enough to let two machined metal surfaces mate well. It is easy to make a big mess with this stuff if you aren't careful.

On to the crankshaft sleeve problem. Let me just put up a few pictures and then talk about the problem.



You might have already figured out what my problem is?

Well, the sleeve comes with a "flange" on one end that is used by the supplied tool to push the sleeve onto the shaft, hopefully to push it far enough to cover that part of the shaft that had been messed by the old seal constantly rubbing against its surface.

In my case, the sleeve (with flange) was actually too long for the rear of my crankshaft. The instructions said that if you were going to remove the flange once the sleeve had been pushed onto the shaft, you should "cut it from the outside diameter into the radius in one location." That's so you can peel it off like opening a can of sardines, so it breaks along the pre-cut line.

For the SKF sleeve I bought, the sleeve without the flange is just about perfect for fitting over the complete extent of the rear crank-shaft, so I tried to remove the flange BEFORE installing. It would not have permitted the sleeve to go completely on if the flange was not taken off.

I have some sheet-metal working tools laying around from my HVAC period, so I used a pair of snips to make that "cut from the outside diameter into the radius at one location." Then I used needle nosed pliers to take the piece first cut and wrap it around in a circle while moving along the pre-cut edge as far as I could take it at a time. When I finally got the flange off, the sleeve was a little worse off that at the beginning. It was bent out of shape and had at least one place where it looked like it had a sharp bend.

Then I worked it and worked it and kept looking for something to use to make it round again, then found that I could push it into the inside of the supplied tool and it would fit the inside about perfectly, and I could continue using my fingers to keep pressing the sleeve to align with the contours of the bottom of the tool.

Anyway, it's about as good as I can get it, but. . .

Now that I put it on the shaft by hand, I can see how much bigger the diameter of the sleeve it in comparison to the crankshaft. You should be able to see that in the last photo of the "sleeve on shaft photos".

I could think of three ways to solve the problem:

1) use the aviation sealant by coating both the inside diameter of the sleeve and the outside diameter of the shaft, give it time to begin curing, and then install the sleeve, hoping the thin sealant, once distributed, would take up all of the extra space due to the larger diameter of the sleeve than the shaft.

2) find some kind of paper (try several thicknesses of paper) and wrap the crankshaft with the paper till both ends come nearly together, but don't overlap. Then use some kind of adhesive to make the paper stick to both surfaces in-between.

3) go on a sleeve shoping trip trying to find one that is closer to the diameter of my crankshaft. I purchased the SKF sleeve from RockAuto. They had 5 different offerings, but only one of them was for the rear of the crankshaft, and that's the SKF. I would have to find a different source.

Ok, I am listening. . . what would YOU do?

 

BTW: I had tried slipping the rear main seal over the sleeve and it did seem to fit ok. Whether or not it is too tight, I am a poor judge, but it looked ok to me. Today, after satisfying my wife's need of manpower with the lawn mower, I will attempt to lay different materials over the end of the crankshaft and see how the sleeve then fits, starting with aluminum foil. If I find a tight fitting material that holds the sleeve on, maybe that will suffice?

 

Although not a main focus of the car care nut channel, I do enjoy seeing the progression he's made from his home garage to staffed auto repair shop. He does seem like a very wholesome guy and maybe if I ever cruise past his shop i'll stop in to meet him. I'm sure his wife and kids must be proud of him and hopefully he's proud of himself. I feel he's kinda lived out the American Dream that I hear so much about.

I wanted to like the mevotech ttx ball joints because mevotech supplied chevy joints and as long as you greased them with each oil change they were quite good. I can't here though. I think the cold weather is for sure the biggest factor that lead to failure. I thought maybe it could be the grease I was using (Calcium Sulfonate base) but it didn't list any cautions against using that kind of grease along with I even used a NGLI #1 viscosity grease that I squirted in when it was around +20*C (68*F) in the garage. The boots are notably thicker than other joints with I'm sure also hurts it's cold weather performance but it separated right at the base where it was vulcanized to the shell. If they used a mechanical fixture to secure it then I feel it would of been okay. They even advertised that it was designed in Canada... maybe lower mainland BC or Southern Ontario where the winters are mild (in comparison to the majority of the country). I thought about stepping down to one level below the TTX line because the boot is mechanically fixed but, while I was at the local Toyota Parts counter getting a laundry list of parts quote for 3 vehicles under my care I asked again my price hoping either it would of dropped significantly or motivated me to try aftermarket joints one last time before I wrote them off. There was a new parts advisor and this time they asked me if I wanted them with or without the control arms. After explaining my aftermarket ball joint situation, she agreed with me and told me the only ball joints they use in Tacoma's and 4runners in the shop are 555 Senkei ball joints which are Toyota OEM. She brought one out to show me and it was indeed exactly the same as the one I initially removed along with the overkill circlip that retained the old joint. 169$ for both joints was alot better than the 1657$ they quoted me for both control arms and the one seized eccentric I have. I haven't installed them yet because I have a couple vehicles with a higher priority than that plus i'm working but hopefully the arm isn't bored out too much from pressing in the TTX joints. I heard they're also oversized in the body to allow installation into worn control arms.

I'm not against aftermarket parts but I also prefer OEM unless I had a specific concern with the OEM part that can be rectified by going aftermarket. Especially since my time at the dealership. Availability is a huge factor along with pricing. My 92 camry (that's finally running) needed a few parts like the ECM, Ignitor and Distributor to run. None were even an option from Toyota and I didn't want any of those aftermarket either. My options were rebuild them myself, which I did with the distributor, or Scrapyard find which was how I acquired the ECM. Mind you it's also what kicked started my trip to Montana as the scrapyard I found who had the one I needed was in Seymour California and didn't ship to Canada. I caved on the ignitor though.. for now. Hopefully I cross paths with an OEM Toyota Ignitor one day for that car.

I'm just trying out an online Toyota parts dealership website for a clutch release fork for the Camry and a belt tensioner for my cousins 2013 Sienna. Locally the tensioner is $675.99. Online it was a somewhat reasonable $415.66. Strangely the fork for the Camry was obsolete according to my local dealer so i'm intrigued to see how much dust will be on this fork when I receive it. I am jealous or the options you guys have for acquiring parts compared to us.

Good ol' Alberta.. it's 255'541 Square Miles I believe of total area. Not the biggest province though. I think Alberta is the 6th largest Province/Territory behind Quebec, Ontario, Northwest Territories (NWT), Nunavut and, British Columbia (BC). As per the last census i'm aware of, the population of Alberta was around 4 million people. I like to say Alberta is the most geographically diverse province but I don't know if there is any official dispute to that. I've never been to Northwest Territories, Nunavut, Northern Quebec or Labrador. I am confident in that statement though. Southern Alberta, say from Red Deer and down is what I would say is the prairies of Alberta along with the foothills. That's pretty well farm land with the south eastern corner especially being flat as a pancake. Between Calgary-ish and Edmonton-ish is a mix of grasslands and foothills. North of Edmonton is primarily Boreal Forest and the western Border of Alberta, south of Grande Prairie(GP) is the Rocky Mountains. That isn't exact and there are patches or other various terrains like another Grassland area which is pretty flat aswell around the Grande Prairie area which is in the north western area of Alberta but those are the main landscapes of Alberta.

Up until 2015 Alberta had what was I believe a 40 year streak of Conservative governments. Our party structures and government processes are a bit different than you guys down south but basically Conservatives are like your republicans... federally and policy wise the Peoples Party of Canada is more closely like your republican party but thats only a federal Party, not a Provincial one. Canadians on Average are also not as right wing as our American counter parts. Either way We had a 40 year stretch before a corrupt Premier (Governor equivalent) Allison Redford ruined that and gave us a Socialist NDP Premier for a term... we're now back to a Conservative government after that 4 years of terrible-ness. Our Current Premier is also a firebrand who loves sparring with the Prime Minister's Office so that's a good thing that also provides entertainment. The other day the federal environment & Climate change minister said they were gonna stop funding new roads for climate change reasons. He's walked that back since... so it's good to have a bold Premier to call those clowns out.

I actually don't at all live near the border aha. I live in Fort McMurray (Fort Mac) That dirty oil town that eastern Canada hates. I was also born and raised here and graduated from the Catholic high school in 2015( yes i'm alot younger and less experienced that you probably imagined ahah). I lived in Calgary for two years for trade school then returned to the Fort Mac where I basically returned to life as usual until I finished my apprenticeship. From there I moved to Grande Prairie for a year before landing in Athabasca since I figured it would be nice to not live 4.5 hours away from my fiancé(now wife) and commute to her every Friday or Saturday after work for a day or two just to see her before returning to Grande Prairie for work on Monday. Yet again though, we ended up back in Fort Mac because compared to jobs around Athabasca, Fort Mac pays significantly more and the 3 hour drive from Fort Mac to Athabasca was better than from GP to athabasca but I feel like it's good to see your wife everyday afterwork on a normal basis. Combined with the fact my parents are retired here(for some reason) and my cousin, his wife and, kids are here, it made sense to move here. My Wife Sarah is from Nova Scotia though so visiting her family is a cross country road trip that takes 4 days one way of brisk paced driving to get there.

Quebec is a very interesting Province. They can now lay legal repercussions against public employees like medical staff for not speaking French.

Thank God your Wife had the experience to help her brother out and the other medical personnel. Hearing her voice and their language may have been what he needed to recover. That's good that he's coming back strong too and from the sounds of it healthier. It's terrible when things like that happen but it sounds like he's making changes to prevent it from happening again.

 

I think it's also a mix of them not trusting the technician and the cost to repair components too that they have to payout under warranty. So we used to have a basic customer rate of say $200/Hour but the warranty rate that GM was charged was $267.87/Hour. I don't know why but that's what it was. The hourly cost also took repairs off the table often. It was cheaper under warranty to replace a whole cv axle with a new one on a half ton Silverado by 16$ vs replacing just the boot that was torn. For customer pay jobs I usually provided a quote for both and let the customer decide. It was a little more of a price discrepancy but I think it was less than 100$ difference. Before GM put forth their Dexos1 gen3 oil spec and the small displacement turbo engines were experiencing Low Speed Pre-Ignition (LSPI) and cracking pistons, we would replace the whole engine whereas one they released a service bulletin, the detailed repair was an updated piston and ring assembly that you just replaced if the engine had the symptoms (high oil consumption, knocking, poor performance, high emmisions, low compression, etc) Surprisingly and rarely would the cylinder walls damaged but of course if they were then the block was junk as GM didn't allow for machining of those blocks. I think the release of the service bulletin was costing GM an extra $2000-$3000 dollars as with our labour rate per hour it would of cost them less if we continued replacing whole long block engine assemblies... until they raised the prices of the long blocks. I think only one guy at our dealership fudged a piston replacement as he forgot to set his ring gaps in the right spot so when it was back together it had low compression on that cylinder... he covered his ass by writing a BS story about how now it actually needed a long block... instead of owning his mistake wholesale he saw it as he could lose most of a day and cost the dealership parts that they could charge for to go in again and fix his mistake or lie and replace the whole engine which he would of been paid and with the dealership to do by GM. Not everyone is a Hack and alot of Guys are like the Car care nut and take pride in their work and do it well but guys like that don't help convince GM that mechanics are just good for being parts replacers. I'm surprised GM is still one of the few manufacturers that allows their automatic transmissions to be overhauled. Most others, including Toyota nowadays will just say to replace the whole assembly if it isn't an electrical, torque converter or external issue.

Oh man, i've lost the contents of my tray many times too and it's always a mess. It's almost as if those trays have a gravitational pull for falling objects, even the none magnetic ones. I'm glad your Wife helped save the day though.

Your starter looks better than some remanufactured ones i've seen. I'm curious to see your pictures if you'd like to share them.

I've also never read the SDS for the aviation sealant but maybe I should aha, I "usually" wear gloves because I don't like the feeling on my hands but with that proposition 65 warning on everything nowadays, including each individual fuse from GM, I've become way too negligent with handling things as I feel seeing the proposition 65 warning so much has just desensitized me to the possible dangers of things... I should take more care of myself though.

So I was looking at your picture, reading the instructions of the sleeve install and taking to my buddy of the Mopar Technician flavour and watched a couple youtube videos. The conclusion we drew was that I believe the sleeve is compromised because it should "stretch" to form a tight fit around the crankshaft snout without any gaps... you may need to acquire a new one as based on the second picture of it you sent there is a gap on the bottom and I don't think the sleeve can be shrunk back down to size to form a sufficient machined surface for the seal to ride on. Usually my buddy and I have just left the flange on the backside and it hasn't caused us any grief but if you need to remove it I think it would have to be done after the install so the sleeve has some support to prevent it becoming deformed.

 

Thanks for writting back, Nolan. Actually, you wrote quite a lot. I read your first post yesterday evening, late, but had to go to bed without responding because it was then late. There was much to say in response, so I went to sleep thinking of the things you had said. I woke up, again with things knocking around in my head, wanting to rush back to the computer. That wasn't to be. I had morning chores to take care of and eat and catch up on news.

So, by the time I reached the computer, there was yet another response from you. Now I have revised my plan of attack, and will go for the low hanging fruit first. . . and will come back again and again until I have gotten it all out. Ok, first off, let's dispense with the SKF Speedi-Sleeve issue. So simple, yet there is a lot to tell.

You said:

"So I was looking at your picture, reading the instructions of the sleeve install and taking to my buddy of the Mopar Technician flavour and watched a couple youtube videos. The conclusion we drew was that I believe the sleeve is compromised because it should "stretch" to form a tight fit around the crankshaft snout without any gaps... you may need to acquire a new one as based on the second picture of it you sent there is a gap on the bottom and I don't think the sleeve can be shrunk back down to size to form a sufficient machined surface for the seal to ride on. Usually my buddy and I have just left the flange on the backside and it hasn't caused us any grief but if you need to remove it I think it would have to be done after the install so the sleeve has some support to prevent it becoming deformed."

Alright, first I had to Google what a Mopar Technician is. They specialize in servicing vehicles at a CDFRF (Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep, Ram or Fiat) dealership. They receive hundreds of hours of factory training, including training from specialists and engineers who built the vehicle. They attend a Mopar TEC Hands-on Experience program which covers all of the automotive mechanical and electrical systems, including HVAC. Mopar also offers the Mopar Career Automotive Program (CAP), a certified technical training program that partners with colleges and technical schools.

So, your buddy is a dealership auto service technician much like you once were, so it is no wonder that you are friends. Given the two of you are both auto techs, your mutual advice on the Speedi-Sleeve is doubly vetted, so has a very high probability of truth with me. And, I find myself in total agreement with your comments, regardless. The photo showing a gap between the shaft and the sleeve immediately shows the problem, and if I had watched the YouTube videos first, would have definitely known, because the Speedi-Sleeve depends on an interference fit, it is a very thin-walled device which prolly expands a bit when forcing it (hammering it) onto the shaft. They are always shown being hammered home, driving the sleeve onto the shaft being fixed using the supplied tool pressing against the flange, so basically hammering on the flanges. So, the flange would have remained on the sleeve until or unless it was removed once the sleeve was fully installed. I have no problems with any of that at this point.

If I am remembering MY sequence correctly, once I had seen that the "b1" dimension covers almost the extent of the shaft, and the distance from the back of the flange to the block would not have left much space, once installed, I think that's why I removed the flange before attempting installation. Also, I knew the oversized sleeve could easily be pushed on by hand (it was so loose).

In the meantime, I had also watched YouTube videos (many) and played around with the Speedi-Sleeve enough to be sure that the problem was that RockAuto sold me the wrong size sleeve (SKF Speedi-Sleeve 99346: 89.0 mm nominal, 88.9 mm minimum, 89.05 mm maximum). My rear crank-shaft measures an average 88.06 mm, almost a full millimeter less than the minimum of the 99346 sleeve. When I had typed in my vehicle specs, Toyota-2000-Tacoma-2.4L L4-Engine-Crankshaft Repair Sleeve, it lead them to show me all the product they had in stock that I could use for that function on my vehicle, 1 REAR and 4 FRONT sleeves. I needed a rear, and that was the single SKF 99346. As customary (large number of purchases from them on the 94 Celica and the 2000Tacoma), I assumed RockAuto would only sell me parts that will fit on my vehicle (thinking convenience), I didn't really know what I was doing when it came to the Speedi-Sleeve, so it was easy to skip the step of checking the measurements. Once you know something, you know, but until you do, you can do yourself harm.

Again, I assumed that RockAuto sold me a correct part, so the fact that it was not at all a tight fit didn't phase me at all. I figured that somehow mechanics had tricks to use in this case, and I tried to imagine ways to get the space between the shaft and the sleeve filled in. My main thinking was to use the aviation sealant, and would have tried that if I could have found some material that I could insert between the sleeve and the shaft to show that it would be possible. My first attempt was to use a sheet of aluminum foil, just placing a sheet of it over the crankshaft end and them pushing the sleeve onto the shaft. That didn't work because the sleeve is too sharp in comparison. My second attempt was to cut strips of aluminum foil and wrap each strip around the sleeve a few times every 90 degrees around the sleeve. After wrapping foil strips around those four points about five times, and still being able to hold the sleeve by hand and get it to move around the shaft, I begain to figure that I needed a rethink, so went in and started watching YouTube videos. Then, it wasn't long before I realized the Speedi-Sleeve needed an interference fit, to prevent the sleeve from ever braking loose and spinning sometimes with the seal, and I also realized that there was nothing on YouTube that actually told a DIY type how to use the speedi-sleeve. What I mean by that is there is no video that shows someone with some unidentified shaft that needed a new sealing surface, then showing them taking the diameter measurement of the shaft correctly, and then looking through a catalog for a sleeve that would fit their shaft's diameter with an interference fit. There was no video showing the proper measurement of the shaft diameter before buying a Speedi-Sleeve!

If you have a friend who has an automotive YouTube Channel, there is a good opportunity to get a lot of views!

Eventually, I found a source called globaloring.com that sells repair sleeves to distributors worldwide, and they had a catalog with identical numbers as the SKF. For example, they showed the SKF 99346 (as SRS99346), and there I found the dimension information I put down above.

How I measured the shaft diameter:

The install instructions say to measure in at least 3 planes. I take that to mean to measure at 3 places along the longitudinal of the existing shaft, to give three sections of the shaft, but that was fuzzy in my mind, and getting my Harbor Freight (do you have them in Canada, or is it just Canadian Tire? take that to mean cheap calipers) calipers properly onto the shaft to take the measurements was tricky. The measures varied a good bit. So, I looked at the set of 10 flywheel bolts and asked why, if I was careful to measure in the same way of holding the caliper at each measurement, why couldn't I just measure the diameter across five sets of two bolt and do that three times, and then I could take an average of the 15 measurements and get a fairly stable reasonable measurement of the diameter of my shaft. The result was 88.06 mm.

The 15 measures (avg to 88.06 mm):
88.05 mm
87.96 mm
88.04 mm
88.15 mm
88.06 mm
88.21 mm
88.06 mm
88.11 mm
88.06 mm
88.03 mm
88.07 mm
88.07 mm
88.02 mm
88.04 mm
87.96 mm

Then I note that there are some outliers (seemingly), the values at the high end of the measures, 88.21, 88.15, and at the low end of the measures, 87.96, 87.96. Suppose I toss them out and recalculate the average of the remaining 11 measures? I get

88.05 mm
88.04 mm
88.06 mm
88.06 mm
88.11 mm
88.06 mm
88.03 mm
88.07 mm
88.07 mm
88.02 mm
88.04 mm

Average = 88.06 mm, the same as I got before tossing what looked like outliers.


Looking down into the globaloring.com catalog, I found sleeve diameters that came closer to the diameter of my shaft than the SKF 99346 I bought from RA, none were ideal, and only one smaller than my shaft, necessary for interference fit?:

SRS99340 88.31 mm 3.477" minimum all values larger than my shaft diameter measure
88.39 mm 3.480" nominal +/- 0.003"
88.47 mm 3.483" maximum

My shaft 87.98 mm 3.464" min
88.06 mm 3.467" 0.25 mm and 0.010" less than minimum of SRS99340
88.14 mm 3.470" max 0.65 mm and 0.026" greater than maximum of SRS99339
0.84 mm and 0.030" less than minimum of SRS99346

SRS99339 87.25 mm 3.435" minimum all smaller values than my shaft diameter measure
87.33 mm 3.438" nominal +/- 0.003" (only a smaller size would have interference fit with my shaft)
87.41 mm 3.441" maximum

SKF 99346: 3.500" nominal, +/- 0.003"
88.90 mm 3.497" minimum
89.00 mm 3.500" nominal
89.05 mm 3.503" maximum

Worst case is when my shaft is largest of its range of values and the sleeve is smallest in its range of values:
(3.470" - 3.435" = 0.035" or 35 thousandths of an inch -- 0.889 mm) Can the sleeve be hammered and will it expand by 35 thousandths of an inch, needed to get the sleeve onto the shaft? Will the sleeve expand by approximately 1 mm?

The best case is when my shaft is smallest of its range of values and the sleeve is the largest in its range of values:
(3.464" - 3.441" = 0.023" or 23 thousanths of an inch -- 0.573 mm) can the sleeve expand by 0.573 mm (about a half millimeter) when being hammered onto the shaft?


So, Nolan, what's the magic that mechanics use in this kind of sleeve-world situation? What am I mis-understanding? Are there multiple different catalogs?

When an object is manufactured it is made according to engineering drawings that represent reality. Since nothing (real), i.e., man-made, manufactured, is perfect, the engineer who designs that object specifies a "tolerance" on specified measures. I think that tells whoever buys the designed object that any measure made of it will vary between a minimum and a maximum, no less, no more. For the sleeve I bought from RA, I believe those variances of +/- 0.003" noted in the catalog, mean that the sleeve I bought can only be known to measure somewhere between 3.497" and 3.503," while my shaft ranges from 3.464" to 3.470", and I have no right to assume the sleeve will be any particular value inside that range, but only that it will measure some value in that range of values, so my best option is to look at the worst case and ask if the Speedi-Sleeve will work for that case, and that means the sleeve I buy has to be able to flex (expand) by 35 thousandths of an inch. I know the sleeve is special, that it is very thin. Does that mean it has the capacity to expand that much, thus giving the interference fit a very tight fit in my case? Should I buy the SRS99339?

How would you and your buddy buy a Speedi-Sleeve that will work on my shaft? And what is your general approach?


EDIT: I should tell you about my trying to tell RockAuto about them selling me a Speedi-Sleeve that didn't fit, so the next customer doesn't come along and get tripped up in the same way. I had heard people complaining about not being able to easily get in touch with them, and was kind of expecting it to be hard, so when I was looking at my order, somewhere it gave me a chance to tell them that the part didn't fit. GREAT!! Or so I thought.

They even let me tell them that I wanted a refund (store credit, good for 5 years? NO) and then their system asked me a long series of questions about what was wrong, did I ruin the part in any way (YES), and so on. At the last of all those questions, it came back and told me that the part could not be returned, and that's when it became totally silent, giving me no more chances to interact.

If someone takes a look at the dialog, they could intuit that there is something wrong in selling that particular sleeve to another owner of a Tacoma like mine. I refuse to use their telephone number and waste my time listening to elevator music just to make sure they got the message.

 

Between both of us we've only ever just acquired the sleeve advertised for our application, installed it and carried on with the repair. I asked yet another former mechanic here who's a year shy of retirement with backgrounds as an independent shop mechanic, Audi, Ferrari and, Mercedes and he said once did he have a similar issue and he just returned it and they gave him another that fit as it should. It was in a box with the same part number so his speculation is the first sleeve he got was made at 4:15pm on a Friday before the guy went on holidays for a few weeks.

Where exactly on the shaft are you measuring? Your measuring practices are fine as you're getting consistent repeatable measurements. Maybe a certain part of the shaft along it's longitudinal axis has a different diameter or the Calliper you were sold had a manufacturing defect that's causing it to read your shaft diameter a little shy. There will be manufacturing tolerances of the crankshaft diameter for sure but I can't see it being more than the repair sleeve can handle or it would also potentially cause issues for the engine trying to seal against it if the variance was too large.

I don't recall ever personally measuring to confirm fitment. The closest I come to that is to place the sleeve over the shaft and ensure that I actually have to hammer it on and that it doesn't freely slide one. When the sleeve was fresh out of the box, did it have an interference to just sliding on or was it loose out of the box?

Based on how much the one you had stretched, I would say if you had to the SRS99339 sleeve would stretch to fix but you potentially may have difficulties getting it started on the shaft. I would contact skf or a supplier that can be reached and get their take on it if the sleeve they sell is fully a no go.

Based on your previous pictures though your shaft does look fine to accept a new seal unless there was a groove that catches your nail that the camera is hiding but, if no one makes one then the only other way I can think to acquire one would be to custom machine one which would be a whole other can of worms.

Edit: Not Critical information with this edit Bill, but I forgot to circle back to it.

In Canada, A Harbour freight equivalent would be Princess Auto. Canadian tire is more like a weird mix of a Walmart, bed bath & beyond, an auto repair shop, Cabela's/Bass Pro Shop with a sprinkle of Harbour freight... there's only marginally more tools that can be acquired at a Canadian Tire than a Walmart.

 

That would do it. . . 4:15 pm on a Friday haha

I've been in a Canadian Tire a few times up in Montreal where her brother and family live, so I so know exactly what you meant by giving all the potential similar places: Walmart, Bed Bath & Beyond, An auto repair shop, Bass Pro Shop, with a sprinkle of Harbor Freight. What a wonderful way to characterize that place, for that's how it is actually.

The sleeve I got from RockAuto was way too fat right out of the box, only I didn't know since I had never worked with one before. The first time I approached the shaft with it, the sleeve went right on, without any rubbing at all. I say it was the wrong sleeve right from RockAuto.

If I got the next smaller size, that one would have to stretch a good bit, though it might be made to fit. Right, getting it started might be a problem, however the flange has a small curvature where it meets the shaft. I've seen so many videos of men whacking them on so hard that the installation tool got crushed. . .

I was bummed by my shaft being in-between two standard sleeve sizes, and did (just) ask myself whether I couldn't move the seal in or out a little bit in the retainer so it wouldn't be rubbing on the same place on the shaft, since the retainer holds the seal basically in a round opening (straight through bore) possibly a wee oversized because of my sanding out the corrosion, which is why I got the aviation sealant.

That seal rubbed ring on the shaft is not all that bad, come to think of it. My fingernail can feel it when it rides over it, but it does not stop the fingernail from continuing to move. If I over-install the seal (press it in just a bit further than the manual wants it), then the wear ring would be outside of the seal's sealing surface, and I imagine the seal would still be ok sitting farther into its retainer. I will have to look more closely at that possibility tomorrow.

Also tomorrow, I will download, if I haven't already, the SKF catalog and look more carefully at their numbers. I am bolstered by having three genuine, certified, auto mechanics guiding me.

Your 92 Camry needs an Igniter? Send your VIN and a photo of the Igniter, and I will look to see if it gets reported at a nearby LKQ. With the VIN I can dig out the exact parts explosion diagram of that particular vehicle using PartSuq.com and see how it is mounted in the vehicle, so will know which tool to take with me if/when one comes in.

 

Ahah, I just wanted to be sure there wasn't something I was missing or a secret trick one of us had that the other didn't because as possible as it is, before asking and hearing from you, I've never been so unfortunate to receive a sleeve improperly sized.

The aftermarket igniter I got is so far working okay and as cheap as it looks it's better than the other aftermarket one I took off. I'm not hugely stressed for a new one right now as when I took apart the old one, it looks like the igniter is one of those parts that shouldn't really fail unless something else causes it. In my case the spark plugs looked like they've been in the car since 1992 as the Nippo-Denso logo isn't anywhere near the current logo. I also think they now just go by Denso. Plus the stack of maintenance receipts I got with the car lists a few timing belts, lots of struts, lots of oil changes etc, but no mention of spark plugs. So beyond the plugs being gapped a mile wide, all the contacts points of the distributor were charred and burned way out of shape, the ignition coil had a crack the whole length of it exposing the melting innards along with the distributor having a sizeable amount of oil in it. I feel all of that, specifically the coil overheating may have sent an inappropriate power surge through the igniter(s) frying them and in turn doing the same to the ECM. My next tasks are a timing belt and clutch replacement when i'm off work and the parts show up. I'll be walking a similar road to you soon ahah. I do appreciate it though but you don't have to. When the time is right i'm sure one will appear in front of me.

I don't have a picture of the exact one in the car and I also didn't drive to work today to take a picture of it when I go home.... the car has bald summer tires from 2007 on it presently and because I missed the bus to work yesterday I already rolled the dice driving in yesterday through the snow storm we're getting like California, I learned my lesson and made damn sure I caught the early bus today

Vin: JT2SK12FXN0033971
This is just a googled picture

 

Your igniter module 89621-16020 is attached by a bracket 89629-33010 to what. . . ??? Maybe a picture of it mounted in the vehicle would help me.

The drawing I found the igniter in "Switch and Relay and Computer," shows that it kind of looks like the igniter is somewhere in the left of the engine compartment, maybe closer to the firewall than the radiator. It has a 5-pin connector with 2-wires going to the ECM, 1-wire going to the tachometer, 1-wire going to the ignition coil inside the distributor, and the last wire goes to the ignition switch. It is interesting that they put the camshaft position sensors inside the distributor.

While trying to find the ignitor module on PartSuq.com, I was kind of surprised to find some parts are still available there for your 92 Camry associated with the distributor. For example:

Distributor Breaker Lead 19144-74100 $9.09 with 8 available
Distributor Condenser 19133-16240 $4.15 with 1,278 available
" " New Era Condenser 4NC84 $2.94 with 100 available
Dust Proof Packing 19127-63080 $9.40 with 1 available
Dust Proof Cover 19121-11080 $6.65 with 5 available
Distributor Housing O-ring 90099-14091 $2.52 with 691 available
Distributor Rotor 19102-16010 $9.23 with 285 available
" " YEC YR119 $1.40 with 381 available

However, a lot of the parts came back as NA (not available) and sometimes "nothing found."

FYI: I have purchased a considerable number of things from PartSuq.com and consider them one of the cheapest places to buy Toyota parts, when they have them. Shipping from Abudahbe (? I really messed that one up) hasn't ever been objectionable, and the time spent in shipping has been very quick from there to my house here in NC.

I found your "Googled" photo of the module on a website called troubleshootmyvehicle.com put up by Abraham Torres-Arredondo at "Home/Toyota/2.2L/Ignition System Wiring Diagram (1992-1995 2.2L Toyota Camry)". He has two nice tutorials on how to troubleshoot your ignitor and the inignition coil, but I am guessing you already know that.

Sorry about giving you those parts costs in USD, it's how I think. I also made the mistake of thinking your Camry was in the US system, so I checked out the VIN decoder that is maintained by the US "National Highway Transportation Safety Agency," as it is pretty nice in giving all the data that Toyota gave them prior to making every car made in the US. Turns out your Camry was made in Tsutsumi Plant, Toyota City, Aichi, Japan. Didn't try any other VIN decoder. The only thing I learned about the car was that it is the LE series (trim level?) and it has a driver side air bag.

Camry 10.1991 SXV10, VCV10, Color = 3J9, Model = SXV10L-AEMNKK with Options = MTM, BO, Production period: 06.1991 - 08.1992.

I did learn that the ignitor module is a costly little beast, seeing costs from $254 to $491, without doing any shopping.

My plan for tomorrow is to activate a link at the LKQ system (pick your part) and let them tell me when another 92 Camry comes into one of their yards. There are three LKQs within driving distance of me. Then, its just a matter of waiting. If you change your mind and decide that you had rather not look for a used igniter, and want to shop around for a new OEM version, let me know, but until then, I will have an alarm set looking for 1992 Camrys.

Just need a photo showing the actual location and how it is mounted, so I know what tools to take with me. I guess you would like the mounting bracket as well as the other side connector that plugs into the 5-pin connector? I will just pass along whatever costs get incurred, ok? I'm not looking to make ANY money off of you. You have so helped me that I think I owe you.

 

Your igniter, I believe, is the Toyota part 89621-16020, subsequently replaced by Toyota part 89621-26010, and it has 48 "fitments" in Toyota world (if I am not mistaken by what I found on the Ourisman Toyota of Richmond Online Parts website). Orisman is one of the cheaper on-line Toyota parts discounters, they bought out McGeorge, and offer the 89621-26010 at $467.20, discounted 33.9% from MSRP of $706.54. The 48 "fitments":

Camry (92-96) DLX, LE, SE, XLE 2.2L L4 Gas SE only in 96 and 96 it was used in the 3.0L V6
Lexus (?)
Tercel (91-93) DLX, LE, STD 1.5L L4 Gas
Paseo (92-95) BASE 1.5L L4 Gas
MR2 (92-95) BASE 2.2L L4 Gas
4Runner (96) BASE 2.7L L4 Gas
Land Cruiser (93-97) BASE 4.5L L6 Gas
T100 (94-98) BASE 2.7L L4 Gas
Previa (94-97) LE 2.4L L4 Gas for 96 and 97, used in the DX
Tacoma (95-97) BASE 2.4L L4 Gas and 2.7L L4 Gas
Corolla (95-97) DX, LE 1.8L L4 Gas for 96 in BASE, DX 1.6L L4 Gas and 1.8L L4 Gas; for 97 BASE, CE, DX, LE 1.6L and 1.8L
RAV4 (96,97) BASE 2.0L L4 Gas
Celica (92-99) too much to list

So, if I want to go get one at the local LKQ, that list of "fitments" gives me a lot of targets of opportunity, so I don't have to just wait for an alarm from LKQ. Just takes time to run through the vehicles on each lot each time I access their website from home. Can do that by computer, and only go to the LKQ when I find that one of those vehicles is on the lot. Won't know if the part is on the car until I go there.

In due diligence, I started looking around at places like eBay, Amazon, Alibaba, etc., and found that people operate independently going to places like the LKQ and picking out only certain parts, such as the Ignitors that Toyota uses in so many vehicles, and they then put the used parts (they paid LKQ for) up for sale, as is, looking just as they did when they were taken off the vehicle (meaning dirty), but their prices are no where near the price that places like Ourisma charges $467.20.

Example:





Oops, the origin of that version of the Toyota 89621-26101 is "Mainland China."

So, tried again, and found this USED (NEW) part on eBay:



It says it fit the 1992 Camry LE 4-door Sedan. That part is not new, at least it doesn't look new in the photo, but under CONDITION it says NEW?!?

Then I happened upon an igniter that came from PartSuq.com that I must have missed when I was looking there the day before:



Considering that this is an original OEM Toyota part sold by a legitimate seller located in Dubai, when compared with the cheapest on-line Toyota discounter I found Ourisman Toyota of Richmond who was selling the unit at a discount for $467.20, you would be saving $243.71 over that discounted price when you paid $223.49. There are 8 of them still available. Well, that's not true. You still have to pay the shipping, but whenever I buy something from PartSuq, the shipping doesn't seem all that bad.

Here is an example of the prices you will pay for stuff you remove from cars at the LKQ, as a taste, to let you know they try to get what they can from each part. Their prices are not horrible, but they aren't all that cheap either:



All that is interesting, at least to me. So, my question for the day is:

"Am I misunderstanding the idea of 'fitments' I found on the Ourisman Toyota of Richmond website?" What I mean is, is it true that all those Toyota vehicles use the same ignitor 89621-26010, and I want to know if you are ok getting one from any old Toyota vehicle I come across? It should be the same part 89621-26010 which is most of what matters (I would of course not buy a part that is in obviously bad condition). I think that would make it easier for me to get one for you.

I don't know about you, but I am calling it a "day."

 

In no way go out of your way. I also apologize for the shitty photos, I got home around 8:30, the car was covered in snow, it was dark and I was cold aha.

If you have a ratcheting 10mm wrench you could remove the ignitor and bracket in one shot, if you had a #2 Phillips on a ratchet style bit driver you could just remove the ignitor alone. If you happen to procure one i'll absolutely compensate you for the part and your time. I'll also have to check out Partsuq.com next time

 

I appreciate you doing all this background digging, I feel you're going out of your way though aha. I don't think this is a part that would readily wear out, although possible, so used it more than okay with me.

There very well could an accurately large fitment of vehicles. I would imagine 4 cylinder engined Toyota's of similar vintage to use the same part. To be honest i'm not 100% clear on it's operation as with the sensors in the distributor my best guess is that the ignitor plays the middle man to allow the ECM to control the ignition timing within a range by commanding the ignitor to pulse the coil when it wants a spark, serving as a glorified relay. Along with providing a more ECM friendly tachometer signal. I'm purely speculating though as I don't see why the tachometer signal couldn't be read off the the pickup coil/camshaft position sensor. I haven't dug into the car intimately yet but I don't believe it has a crankshaft position sensor. I guess with a distributor and gang-fire fuel injection there wouldn't really be a need for it.

Reasons like this is why I enjoy owing and working on vehicles older than myself. It's very interesting to me to see how they made cars work. Especially since they do the same task as a 2024 would, Just in some aspects more complex and other aspects simpler. I have yet to own a carbureted gas engine or mechanical injector diesel though to further my learning. Closest I came to a carbureted engine was a B2200 I was looking at before the Camry but, between finding parts for it, the asking price of an also non running vehicle and, talking to some of the older guys here about the feedback carbs those trucks had I decided and was heavily coerced that maybe that wasn't the right vehicle to play with if I wanted the experience with a carb.