3 Gen Tacoma NON-ELECTRONICS Conversion

Can a modern ECU dependent Tacoma Truck be converted to function without the ECU inter-connectivity? Basically, can you take out the fancy electronics and make it all work not dependent on each other.

For example, if the BSM module in the rear breaks, if replaced, it has to be calibrated to work, which while it is not working can blow out the heater module, then the defrost does not work, then you replace it and fix the BSM to working condition and as a consequence, the wiring harness to which it is connected to breaks, then they replace that and as a consequence the Pre-Collision Waring system malfunctions. Then they fix that, then the mirrors become non-functional, then they replace the mirrors, then something else goes wrong....

This is a event that's happening to my truck right now. It all started with a rear end collision damaging the sonar sensor and the BSM... It's a night mare and I am trying to prepare for the worst and therefore wonder, if it is possible to have each computer driven unit working independently on its own without interconnectivity? experts?

Thanks
Thomas

 

Very doubtful that you would get a cascading failure like that.

Even more doubtful that you’ll get them all to work independently without having one of thoase extremely competent Toyota software engineers in your back pocket.

 

I'm not sure but it's all using Can Bus to communicate.

• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAN_bus
• https://fabiobaltieri.com/2013/07/23/hacking-into-a-vehicle-can-bus-toyothack-and-socketcan/

 

Doubtful is what Toyota Experts at the dealership pretended to be. I wrote Toyota Corp Brand Management about it and asked for help. They only addressed the body-repair issue and refused to reply to the ECU questions entirely. So, "doubtful" as it may be to you and many others, I experienced a completely different reality. The question to the dealership was "if that - as you described it as CASCADING- interconnected causal or cascading failures would stop at some point?" The only assuring answer I get from the experts is "It should stop - we fixed it". The word "should" in a guarantee is really not worth the paper it's not written on.

Well, before, they fixed the pre-collision warning system, and other 'cascading - cascaded' problems, and the heater.... they didn't want to believe it or admit it that there could be such a cascading event... (I really like your 'cascading' word). But they fixed it. Then they repaired the BSM replaced it because it was damaged, and put a new sonar sensor in, and calibrated everything. Then I told them that the pre-collision waring notice came on (I am able to monitor that from my connectivity systems app). They got mad. They looked at it, and found that the wiring harness was bad and they said somehow it must have gotten pinched... Oh, well, let's just assume that was unrelated. They replaced the harness and called me yesterday that consequentially a surge must have been the cause that now the mirrors had to be replaced. And you say "wow", talking about "cascading".

So, my logic assuming question is now "When where will it stop? Is this now the end of the waterfall cascading? Can the dealership make guarantees, are they willing too? Where will the insurance stand with an escalating problem for which they have to pay for? The insurance company is paying the repair for damages caused by someone else... So, I was just explaining to give you the whole context.

Thanks for lending me your brain.

 

Just because they say they fixed it doesn’t meant they had a clue what they were doing. It’s not the design of the system at fault here, it’s that the technicians at a dealer, most of the time, don’t have the experience or time to properly root cause and repair.

I wonder if a Toyota specialist shop would be better

 

this is an important distinction. think of the canbus as a communication network that runs the entire length of the vehicle. if the canbus wires were crushed and intermittently shorting out in the back of the truck, all of the modules that communicate via the canbus could be receiving broken messages, resulting in error codes.

it's sort of like you trying to shout at kids for being on your lawn while also slapping your hand over your mouth every second.

but that means those error codes aren't really error codes. as they say "what we have here, is a failure to communicate!"


my brother just had a similar issue with a new jeep grand wagoneer. another shop had worked on the rear air bag suspension compressor module, and in the process, they unknowingly broke the locking tab off the compressor wiring plug, which allowed the plug to be inserted into the module in either direction. the problem is that out of the 20 pins in the connector, 11 are not used and are a direct short to ground.

when the plug is reversed, it shorts out the entire canbus network, and lights up the dash like a christmas tree with all sorts of unrelated errors.

he repaired it with a replacement compressor module and inserting the plug the correct way. but it takes a competent tech to do this that understands the canbus interface, and proper toubleshooting proceedure. my brother said it took about 5 days to diagnose, troubleshoot, and finally repair the issue from when it was brought in with a non-working compressor and warning lights all over the dash...

 

keep the insurance adjuster in the loop. if they're the one's paying, they're the ones that will fight to refuse payment for anyone's neglectful installation process.

it's a pain, but just document everything, and if needed, refer everything to the insurance adjuster. your only goal should be to be 'made whole' after the incident, and your adjuster should be in agreement with that goal.

 

How should I approach that? I need to ask them the right questions that will corner them to a "Yes it is repaired and it WILL NOT happen again, nothing else will break as a consequence to our repair", or that they will say in writing to me and the insurance company "We fixed it, what the diagnostics told us to fix and as far as we know to the best of our knowledge it should now be repaired, but we can not guarantee that there won't be another issue connected to the inter-connectivity of the ECU systems"... something of that nature. My goal is to convince the insurance to total the damn truck (2021 TRD Sport). That's because I fear that this is a coming night mare.

 

I like that. Will do. Thanks!

 

Weird electrical shit going on with no explanation?!?! Check and clean EVERY ground. Especially after a body shop got their chance with paint.

 

That's just it, I took the damaged Tacoma to Karl Malone Toyota Body and Paint, which is a Toyota Certified Authorized Body Shop, and the dealership is next door with it's service department that focuses on mechanics. I wrote Toyota Corporation Brand Management about the issue and they replied and talked about the body parts work but totally ignored the ECU fail cascading.

 

They weld on it with the electronics powered on?

 

there's a difference between a franchise and a brand-owned store. for instance, toyota corporate does not own any dealerships throughout the entire USA. contacting them about the problem is about the same as calling NASA any time you can't see the stars on a cloudy day...

 

I am sorry, I don't understand. Can you elaborate what you mean with the 'weld on'... with electronics on? Nothing was welded on my truck, the side panel of the bed is bolted... at first they said they had to cut and weld and so decided to just try to mend the dent, which turned out really bad. That's when I found out that the panel is actually bolted.

 

That's a good point. Toyota does say to 'contact an authorized or certified Toyota Dealership / Body Shop', which Karl Malone is. But I know from own experience that this 'certification' means little. For example a certified Toyota vehicle is supposed to conform to the "CERTIFIED VEHICLE" standards prescribed by the Toyota Corporate Certified Vehicle Guarantee Program. But, when I looked at "certified" vehicles, here in upper - northern Utah we have 7 Toyota Dealerships - I went to all of them and NONE of them conformed 100% with their certified vehicles. And I reported that to Toyota - Brand Management, who gave a hoot about it.

Actually, I believe Toyota Corporate could be part of an international money laundry scheme in order to help the price and value stabilization of it's brand vehicles. There could be a few variables of course and you really never know exactly what's going on. But I have caught dealerships making deals with body shops selling damaged vehicles as certified because they can have damaged vehicles repaired in a way that it will never show up in any kind of report. Plus from what I heard, it looks like damaged Toyotas are being sold to the cartels by the boatloads shipped damaged to South America, quasi quick fixed on the boat and upon arrival enter the market there as "cleared" cars at 70% of the cost from what was paid here to the insurance companies and/or the body shops - auctions etc.... And that demand created has an affect on price stability here in our market while at the same time the Cartel is able to clean its dirty drug money at $0.70 on the $1 dollar, which beats any other money laundry business deal which is often at $0.30/$1.00. - have you ever wondered while the Tacoma-s for example cost used maybe just $1000 less than a new one? While the body shop person explained to me - buying my then white 2020 SR5 Tacoma (it was totaled in 4/2020), his boss called .... from South America... This was a body Shop that was recommended to me by my then Toyota Dealer, who wanted to buy my truck too. Karl Malone wanted my truck as well... Of course this truck now is not being totaled by the insurance company - I wish it was, but we will see. Anyway, maybe this is all too far-fetched.

But still, certified is certified, better than any other. Still it's all part of the automotive scamming scheme, an industry I hate and love.

 

i think you've read all too far into this that it's some sort of international organized crime ring. it's always enjoyable to me to read of people that think the world is far more organized than it really is. i think for starters, you've placed far too much emphasis into branding and consumer relations. but it also seems you might also be watching far too much biased news sources as well...

look at who cares to do their job well. ask any car salesperson from any brand to give you a quote for a vehicle to be purchased 6 months from now. it's impossible. because most salespeople that are there won't have the same job in 6 months-- all they care about is to make this months numbers. because that's all the location management imprints onto the sales staff.

a serious look into any dealership from any brand tends to reveal that most dealerships are generally ran in a disorganized panic, more similar to one of those 'blowing money machines'.


after that hard look, you'll start to realize that the lack of organization means that the 'certified process' isn't a failure because of some higher and more malicious ulterior motive, but one of many results of a poorly maintained facade to disguise the disorganization.

while it's well documented that some franchised owner dealers have been part of laundering schemes of the past, toyota corporate literally cannot be involved in this process because of how they've legally and publicly created themselves as a publicly traded company.

'certified' used vehicles have been a gimmick for quite some time, most requirements are basic recall complete-ness, with mileage and age limitations, and a light 'inspection process' to verify the wheels literally won't fall off, which is largely redundant due to the vehicle age limitations.

this entire idea started long before 'certified used', we can see it's origins in the carmax process--carmax has had a similar process for decades. the 'dealer certified used' process was a step on the franchised dealers part to attempt to bring more people into the dealership to sell to, people that carmax reached selling new-ish lightly-used vehicles, vehicles that otherwise would normally fall to used car lots, which began 'stealing' sales from dealers. all that began when the price of new vehicles continued to climb, and the health of the used market naturally increased to satisfy lesser-well-off buyers vehicle purchases in a more moderate price range.

while there is a healthy deportation market to south america and other countries, most dealers aren't involved in this process, as it would work against their franchise agreement to sell any brand of vehicles new, which generate far more financial incentive via direct sales, as well as the financial gain from interest payments.

i don't doubt the body shop is part of a south american exporting deal, but again, that's a separate entity from toyota. it's not like toyota, or the dealer poured over decades of body shop financials before them becoming 'the recommended body shop'. more than likely, it was a signed paper agreement based on vehicle turnaround statistics, having almost nothing to do with what happens to get a vehicle to that point.

i know in my area, all of the official body shops recommended by dealers or insurance agencies are literally nothing but problems. i've had multiple close friends try a few different local 'recommended/certified/official' body shops, all to end in months-long issues from those shops cutting corners to save a buck to attempt to keep the 'recommended/certified/official' status--because saving money over the more reliable, and inherently-more-costly shops, speaks far better to the dealers or insurance agencies bottom line, which is what those companies ultimately care about firstly anyways.

the reality is that once we break away from toyota corporate, each dealer acts as an individual entity, and because they're individuals, that means that each dealer can be as moronic as they want to be, for their health, or demise.

 

awesome thoughts. Thanks! I like these "other people's points of views". Gives a good perspective.
best wishes
Thomas

 

The dealership does not want to explain or suggest that the electrical system and connectivity may be or could be compromised because there were at least 2 power surges, in both events electronics burned up and had to be replaced. What's in between the origin of the power surge and the end where it blew out the weakest "fuse" end, that is not contemplated. I would like to get a warranty over that. The dealership is silent, hopefully I am going away. My truck is ready for pickup and they said they need to get paid. I have not authorized payment and have refused to pick up my truck until answers are being given, trying to force their hand to either say "No we cannot guarantee it... because", or they will say "Yes we will guarantee that there is nothing else broken in the electronics system and its interconnected ECU / ECM systems"... The won't be able to, because it's too costly potentially. But the insurance company needs to understand that dilemma and either insure over it, guarantee they will pay for any electric issues, even if they show up as an emissions issue, or as sad as that alternative is, total the truck. I hate bot alternatives. The power surge to the mirrors may have happened because they changed the wiring harness with battery connected, but another report in contradiction to the wiring harness having caused the blow out came in from another person who said the power surge happened during the calibration of the BSM module.... I can't proof it either way and I really don't even care what really happened.

 

Toyota corp has a brand management department that takes care of complaints or concerns which are sent over to the dealership so the dealership can take care of the problem. But it's really all just smoke and mirror, a big huge farce. Everyone in that industry lies, cheats, and then they are bloated up in argument yelling "how dare you making us look incompetent". And I say usually "No, I don't think you are incompetent, you are just lying about it all, which makes you look incompetent, but hey, you pick what you want to be, incompetent or a lying sob." Of course that gets me no where. Working with them gets you nowhere anyways. It's not like I am looking to build a long lasting relationship with a bunch of liars and crooks. I think I am done buying new Toyota cars... Learned my lesson after 7 or 8 purchases in a 9 year period. Fantastic Day!