Engine Oil, Climate, and Use.

They speak about the US manual and all they have to do is turn the page and read the full text. It’s right there in black and white.

There’s nothing wrong with 0w20, and there’s nothing wrong with sticking to it. But you don’t have to.

 

I used to run Aunt Jemima but I can't seem to find it anywhere anymore....

 

Correct. Here is the evolution of how I came to this conclusion.

In my late teens early 20s

I thought I knew it all. Was better than the engineers and designers. Marketing folks? Weren’t on my radar. I was buying Castrol GTX dino by the case and changing every 3 months with orange filters. That previous funnel thread made me laugh since I just untwisted the black cap from the white bottle and stuck the bottle in the filler and let it gulp away. I threw the empties on the ground to count and make sure I didn't overfill. I couldn’t afford slick 50 and this really bugged me. It was really important to run cherry bombs to make the engine more efficient. Why would the stupid engineers not have done this from the factory? Why not install a K&N at the factory too? I found the first Castrol Syntec (5W-50 iirc) and I didn’t know the difference between Group 3, PAO, and Ester. But it sure was a pretty bottle with a hex nut cap. I had to use a funnel now. I am sure the engine ran a little smoother with it. But man was it spendy. No internet or Amazon back then.


In my 30s I realized the engineers knew a thing or two. I didn’t get cute with weights or brands but I did look for quality. It was hard to break the old interval habit but driving 3k miles a month I had to leave my comfort zone. I started running 8k intervals in a 2011 Town Car and sourced oil from Wal Mart. I still spent more money than I needed to. I also had an old Porsche and knew Porsche techs who showed me the insides of engines, some maintained, some not. I started to rely on some anectodal evidence from folks who actually did the work.

In my early 40s I discovered the concept of compromise. The engineers need to make recommendations for millions of drivers. I started running UOA and VOA. I did realize there was a difference among brands, for better or for worse. Amazon and Super Tech oil is quite good. Some bigger name oils meet spec but are ‘unremarkable’. I was able to relax my OCI a bit but it is still a little uncomfortable.

In my mid 40s I figured out business and marketing, and politics as it relates to carmakers. I also unfortunately came to the realization that an OEM might not be interested in an engine not only lasting 300k, but running like new at 300k. By this point, I have paid for several engine rebuilds, and started to remove modified components from my project cars in favor of stock components.

Re: business, think about it; if an oil meets spec and an OEM can work out a deal with the oil manufacturer for a consistent, cost effective JIT supply, why not put the oil manufacturers label under the hood? Wouldn't you? CAFÉ standards are unique to the US. If OEMs can increase MPG by 1/10 with a certain oil and the trade off is shortening the life of the engine by 50k, why wouldn’t they do it? If they need to warranty catalytic converters for 100k miles and engines for 50k miles and customers would be mad if engines only lasted 100k miles why not maximize the variables? Cat life (warranty), engine life (not making customers too mad), and CAFE standards (non negotiable) If the marketing department can recommend a longer OCI to drive more sales and the trade off is shortening the life of the engine by 50k, why wouldn’t they do it?

We will never know the exact answer. Somewhere behind closed doors the marketing team and revenue team analyzed the engineers data. They probably went back and forth. Probably amicably. But somewhere someone knows exactly what the tradeoffs are. There was a lot of thought going into maximizing return for the OEM by juggling the variables. And their interests are not perfectly aligned with yours. They are most aligned with the 4 year lease customer. Same engine and different manuals across the world are evidence. Speaking with engine rebuilders and Porsche mechanics who know that viscosity is important is my anecdotal evidence.

It all comes down to cost vs. payback for the OEM and cost vs. payback for you. Supertech and 10kmile intervals may be perfect for most folks in terms of cost vs. payback. Others, not so much. Maybe you run group IV and it is a waste of money because the truck rusts out, you sell it, or it is totaled. Maybe you keep it 400k miles and give it to your grandkids. It all depends.

But..to call the US owners manual which is written with input from the engineers but has a final sign off from the marketing and sales department (with the bottom line and CAFÉ standards on their backs) a perfect recommendation from a grey haired man in a lab coat is just not accurate. It is a compromise with the bias favoring the OEM and the 4 year lease customer, not necessarily you or your individual circumstances. There is too much evidence to the contrary.

 

I’d refer you to the 540 RAT Blog. Just google it and spend the time reading it completely, you’ll probably see some evidence.

 

540 RAT started his oil analysis in the C3 section of the Corvette Forum back when ZDDP was being reduced in oils causing many failures to surface primarily attributed to camshaft/flat tappet lifter failure. His method was to use a friction bearing demonstration such as the DuraLube commercials used at the time.
"In March 2000, Dura Lube and competitor Motor Up both settled Federal Trade Commission charges that performance claims for their engine treatments were deceptive and unsubstantiated."
There were many lively discussions over his methods, his qualifications, and his results.
About all this test determined was that some oils are a little more slippery than others compared.
Since those days his papers have sort of created a life of their own. It created too much drama to even follow years ago.

Been changing my own oil for decades, learned a lot over that time.
I always use a 0Wxx, it starts flowing a lot faster than even a 5Wxx. You've heard that most wear is at startup.
0W40 gives great protection in hotter weather. GM Corvette, Mercedes, Porsche and others use it new. Lots of engineers agree on it for many reasons.
Going from S Florida to Oregon in Winter with Mobil1 0W40, I burned 1-1/2 qts of oil. Then same trip with Mobil1 0W20, used no oil.

So I use 0W30 now with no issues.
BTW, Toyota oil does have a higher amount of Moly than other oils.

 

Isn’t “Toyota oil” simply Mobil 1?

 

From what I understand Mobil makes it for Toyota, but I'm sure according to Toyota's own formula.

 

Agree completely. Camper tow season is upon us, nothing long distance but, I wanted to get to 30 at least. I’m definitely sticking with 0W for now.

 

As previously stated, just because Mobil makes Toyota's oil, in no way means Mobil1 and the Toyota oil are made to the same specifications.

 

Your 3.5 will run fine with 0/20, 0/30, 0/40, 5/20, 5/30, 5/40, 10/30, 10/40, 10/50. Even runs ok on straight 30 used in a pinch. Also a quart of 20/50 thrown in to fill to 6 qts doesn’t have any negative effects either.

 

You forgot straight 50

 

Please, no logical suggestions today. The more viscous oil won’t fit in the passages and you know it.

 

Nothing protects the engine better on cold starts than CeraTec by Liqui Moly. I use it in every vehicle I own. The reason it works so well is the solid modifier is ceramic based and heat activated. It binds to the metal at the molecular level and provides an extra layer protection in the first second or two when oil is not flowing. Takes about 250 miles for the solid modifiers to fully bind. I also run 0w-40 M1 euro. Fantastic product, fantastic oil.

https://youtu.be/tkaj9jqa0Xo?si=VhrwISQuxmqOea0o

 

Damn sorry about that. Forgot to run that statement past the Toyota Engineers that determined that 0/20 was the best oil only for the United States.

Oh shit what have I done. Now there will be backlash.

There is no accepting of logic sometimes. I totally agree with you on that.

 

So much bad info in every oil thread. There’s very little data out there and most of what people believe is based on marketing—though they always refuse to admit this. Go look for oil related issues and you’ll find them to be exceedingly rare. The GF-6A/SP-EC spec is more than sufficient to make sure your engine is protected. Don’t overthink it.

 

I’ve been reading 540 RAT’s blog pages. Seems like he knows what’s up with oil. I hope….

 

I posted the above because I’ve ran every one of them for a full 5k miles in the last 13 months. A lot of them twice. No difference when running at all. Cold weather vs warm weather pick the right one for starts.

 

A lot of good points made here. Learned a lot too. Here's my take away. Toyota's bottom line costs/liabilities and .gov dictates blind what is really true and good for the Toyota owner and longevity of our vehicles. To me oil is the life's blood of the engine. So for oil weight certainly there is more than latitude 0W-20 in real life application.