Electric vs Gas Cost

• Super chargers as of march 2024 are $0.25 to 0.35 per kwhr.(Let's call it $0.30)
• pay $0.0823 per Kw/hr.
• Model y long range gets 3.3 to 3.8 miles per kwhr. Lets call it 3.55

• Super chargers: $0.089/mile
• Home charging: $0.023/mile

Average gas price in the US, 18 apr 2024 was $3.67/gal

• Compared to supercharger prices, this makes a model y equivalent to a vehicle with 41.2 mpg
• Compared to home charging prices, this makes a model y equivalent to a vehicle with 159.5 mpg

Let me know if my math look wrong.

 

I charge in my garage...which includes 24/7 access to my beer fridge and private toilets (inside house)

Yes, public charge stations take longer to charge. A Tesla supercharger goes from <5% to full in ~45 mins, but you aren't supposed to supercharge on a regular basis because it reduces battery longevity.

 

FYI, Tesla superchargers charge different rates ($ per Kwhr) depending on location.

 

I didn't throw it on graph paper but I think it sounds correct.

I have to clarify my statement since looking back on it I may have not been clear enough.

The Tesla competes in the market against gas cars that get 35mpg (non-hybrid anyways), not that it "gets" 35mpg.

If your math is correct, and no reason to say it isn't, then public charging your tesla is more cost effective than having a similar gas car, but only just. Which makes sense as I expect they want to get as much of a return on their investment as possible.

 

It's not wrong but is only part of the story. That may be 90%+ from battery to miles but that doesn't consider where the energy came from or how it was transmitted. It's still better, but not as much.

 

You are exactly right. ICEs waste much of the energy produced via heat, and not a lot can be done to change the input/output ratio. Hybrids boost mpg by essentially cheating — by reducing the workload of the ICE (sometimes eliminating it entirely). Hybrids don’t actually improve the thermal efficiency of ICE.

EV adoption has been hampered by their relative inconvenience during recharging, as well as the lack of recharging stations. It takes less than 10 minutes to refuel a ICE vehicle from empty to full. But it takes over 40 minutes to do the same for EV. And you have to plan long trips around charging stations, which is kind of a pain.

EVs adoption will skyrocket once they become as convenient to “fill up” as ICE. When someone starts mass producing EVs with removable batteries that can be exchanged in less than 15 minutes at a regular gas station, they’ll corner the market.

 

There is a discussion on physics stack exchange where the maximum theoretical efficiency of an internal combustion engine is 37%. The response to the question goes into detail of why 37% is a realistic maximum.

https://physics.stackexchange.com/q...ical-efficiency-of-internal-combustion-engine

 

Also have a Tesla Model 3 and want to chime in on this, I have put 7000miles on the tesla model 3, and used 2120kWh of energy (all charged at home), and the price of energy in my area is $0.09 per kwh. This calculates to be total of $190.8 spent on driving the tesla for 7000 miles.

I am going to compare to the following cars/suvs/trucks, say regular gas price is $3.6 here in my area.

Toyota Rav4 Hybrid (40mpg avg): 7000/40=175gal. of gas. 175x3.6= $630 cost in gas.
Toyota Prius (55mpg avg): 7000/55=127.3 gal. of gas. 127.3x3.6= $458 cost in gas.
Toyota Tacoma 3.5L V6 (18mpg avg): 7000/18= 389 gal. of gas. 389x3.6= $1400 cost in gas.
My last vehicle is a Tundra lifted on 37s (my daily, 11mpg avg): 7000/11=636 gal. of gas. 636x3.6= $2291 cost in gas.

So even compare to the most efficient hybrid Prius, one is still saving around $268 per every 7000 miles driven.
But keep in mind that my Tesla model 3 RWD is probably one of the most efficient EVs out there, so the electricity cost may vary depending on what kind of EV you drive.
Also don't forget the EV insurance may be slightly higher than ICE vehicles but in my case it is not by much, around $10-20 per month.
And the 240v charging station at home cost around $1000-1200 to install, but in a long run that is way worth it.
Tesla offers 8 years/100k miles warranty
Even if you replace battery at your own cost, I think it will only cost you say 12-15k USD, which is not too bad.

Verdict, to me, EV is perfect for people whose daily commute distance is shorter than the EV's range (being able to charge at home every night).
But, I am going to still keep at least one dependable/reliable gas vehicle in my household for long distance travels.

I don't see a lot of people mention the autopilot feature of tesla, so far AP of Tesla is easily one of the best I have ever experienced in vehicles.

I am not ready for the FSD (full self driving) yet.

Cheers.

 

Take a look at EV sales in Norway, Finland and Sweden. Their winters are pretty extreme and they aren't running into issues like this. We have along way towards building the infrastructure to handle growing EV owners, but at one point there were under 10 gas stations in the country.

 

Take a look at how small those countries are lol.
Here’s the differences in Norway for example:
https://insideevs.com/news/705338/norway-winter-ev-charging-no-trouble/amp/

 

My point was EV's can and do function quite well in cold austere environments. The video used above is an example of where we obviously need to work on the infrastructure here. Places in the city were lots of people live in apartments, and thus don't have chargers at home compound instances like the video shows.

 

“Quite well” is subjective. In cold weather charging times are longer and preheating is required. Range is significantly decreased especially since you’ll have the heater on. The adverse impacts can be managed by some, for others is not acceptable depending on their situation and travel needs.

 

Here's another data point. We have the Tacoma and a 23' Model 3 RWD. The Model 3 we got months before our Tacoma, but after owning just the Model 3 for some time, we found a need to get a ICE (i'll explain more).

The Model 3 is what we drive around 90% of the time. The other time, we just drive the Tacoma for road trips, weekends or whenever the wife has the Model 3 and I need to get somewhere. Over the course of a year, we've put 16,900 miles on the Model 3 and only have spent $293 (based on the Tesla App). If the Tesla app is correct, and I'm certain it is, we've spent a grand total of $293 for 16,900 miles.

How we've achieved that is that our companies offer L2 charging, so when we go to work (Tuesday ~ Thursday), we charge up for free. L2 has been more than enough to charge the car up slowly throughout the week. Some offices even offer L3 DCFC, and some are conveniently placed enroute to somewhere so we'll stop by over the weekend to get a quick charge. On top of that, we do charge at home from time to time during the day time as we have solar.

If we were to put the same miles on the Tacoma, 16,900/18mpg -> ~940 gallons of gas. Lets say I find a cheap gas station at $5 (in CA). We would have already spent $4700.

Diving a little deeper in costs...
Maintenance:
I've probably spent a grand total of $25 for wipers and washer fluid on my Model 3. Tires do seem to wear faster with the EV, but I feel like my current OEM set will last until 30k miles. With the tacoma, I might be able to get 50k miles out of my tires, but on top of that, have to do regular maintenance (oil change, oil filter, air filter, etc).

While the tires might wear faster, I've calculated the cost/mile on tires to be just about 1cent.
Model 3: 30,000 miles, brand new set $1,200 -> $0.04/mile
Tacoma: 50,000 miles, brand new set $1,500 -> $0.03/mile

Insurance:
Both cars have the same full coverage policy, but the Model 3 costs $300 more for 1 year.

Registration:
Model 3 was $400 more per year.

If nothing were to change for the next few years, the Model 3 will practically pay for it self. With 1 year of ownership, based on the assumed costs of owning the Tacoma, we've saved close to $4,182.

Everyone who says EV is expensive is right to an extent. The upfront costs are definitely higher, but you make it up for it the more you drive the car.

That said, EV definitely has it's place. It's an excellent commuter car especially with basic Auto Pilot. But beyond that, we really couldn't live with just the Model 3. Long road trips just become longer due to needing to easily take 30minutes to charge. Not all supercharger stations are convenient as they might not have all the amenities you need. Sometimes, you might need to even make a detour just to get to a charging station. If you're unlucky, you might need to even wait for a charging station to open up. Also, there have been times where we just drive the Tacoma because there isn't enough charge on the Model 3 to get to where we want, and charging would be an inconvenience.

 

I wonder how much electricity is in your area, if my math serves me well, assume you get 250whr/mile, at 16900 miles that would be 4225kwhr. And assume you only charge at home, 293/4225= $0.069 per kwhr?. I spent around $237 for the last 7300 miles driven (mixed with supercharging of course), and my electricity is around $0.08 per kwhr. That speaks volume of the importance of charging at home for the maximum savings.

 

That's not Dodge's idea. Both GM and BMW were doing that 10 years ago in production cars.

 

or Toyota has been doing Prius game for more than 20 plus years.

 

No they haven't. The Prius is a conventional hybrid with the combustion engine and electric motor coupled to the drivetrain. The Ram Charger is an entirely electric drivetrain using solely electric motors, just like any other EV. Its combustion engine is only a generator, is not coupled to the drivetrain at all and only serves as an onboard power generator for the battery pack.

 

Almost all of these comparisons tend to focus on the cost of gasoline vs the cost of charging at a commercial charging station. That's not how the vast majority of EV owners charge their cars. It's significantly cheaper to do it at home, especially at night. You can charge a car you own in your garage for 15-20 bucks max, depending on your rate.

Electric cars make a ton of sense for a lot of people. There's no need for truck owners to be little angry snowflakes just because trucks don't fit most people's use case.

 

That's a parallel hybrid, not an electric car with a range extender. In the latter, the gas motor is just a generator. It has no physical connection to the wheels.

 

Ok. I get it now. They kinda are opposite