6MT throwout bearing and clutch system shenanigans

Got the new setup all installed with new clutch and flywheel. Still slightly unsure about my pedal stop position... Set it up per the tilton video instructions. Find the point of release, then give an additional 1/4" of travel measured at the end of the pedal by adjusting the stop. Maybe it's just weirding me out since it feels so different than my old clutch which didn't start to engage until it was well withing half the range of pedal travel. The engagement point on this new setup is almost immediately. It feels really nice though, nice and light pedal feel, just have to get used to the new engagement point and also driving now without the clutch accumulator helping I think has made me a bit of a sloppy shifter.

It did however, feel like complete crap initially but I found out I had the rod end of the master cylinder screwed way too far into the union piece I had welded to the clevis. I backed this out a few turns and it made the whole movement of the pedal much smoother, were as before the pedal spring was almost binding up half way through which made the pedal stick or clunk at the end of its travel.

I might jack up the rear end and have the wife and kids help me triple check my stop adjustment/ clutch engagement point when I get home from work today just to satisfy my paranoia at this point because I really don't wanna get under there and have to do this all again.

Also to anyone else doing this, the bleeding technique really is strange for this system. Cycling the pedal through the full travel really doesn't do anything, you literally just move the pedal through it's first 1/2" or so of travel and then crack the bleeder, this for some reason works the best.

What are you guys getting for these two measurements (pictured below) out of curiosity? First is the total length of master cylinder rod from cylinder to jam nut and the second is the length of the stop I have set currently. About 1" and .625" currently... Just trying to ballpark if this looks right. This is with the stop set with 1/4" additional freeplay at pedal end after disengagement point per end of the tilton video.

 

If anyone needs bumpers for the FJ clutch pedal after doing this mod I have uploaded the fusion 3d file that should work, just use the press/pull function to make the pad as thick or thin as you need it for your application, export to stl and print it out. I used TPU for mine at 15% infill to have some squish. Works for upper and lower bumpers on the pedal.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1vVqjVTsBcXa6LQWq6T0rSA__EG4WP-lW/view?usp=sharing

 

Sorry for triple posting here but the thread has been quiet for a while now and I just wanted to share my thoughts.

It has been a little over 2,000 miles now with the new clutch setup and I am more than pleased. It took a little bit to get used to the new clutch engagement point and I did not realize how much the accumulator was babying me before I removed it! I can tell if I am shifting lazily now that is for sure. Since I have become accustomed to it… it is hard to describe any other way than it feels more direct and precise, in summary very good.

Probably the best part about it is there is no more annoying chirp.

However, ever since doing this whole clutch change and TOB conversion it sometimes makes another noise. This noise only happens when it is cold outside and the truck is also ambient cold temp. When I start the truck and have it in neutral with the clutch pedal out it makes a sort of whining groaning noise and its coming from the TOB area. It generally goes away with one push and release of the clutch pedal but sometimes takes a minute of idling after that before it goes away.

I only noticed it since some mornings I will start my truck and let it warm up while I get my coffee, when I do this, I use the clutch bypass button to avoid pushing the pedal, hence how I came to discover the noise. To me it does not seem like a big deal but just thought I would make mention of it in case anyone else has experienced or does experience the same thing.

To me it just seems like a noise caused by cold metal moving on cold metal, since when I leave work in the afternoon after my truck has been sitting in the warm sun all day it does not make this noise.

Hope everyone is doing well and happy Easter.

 

https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/manual-transmission-needs-replaced.829779/

 

I wonder if it's a case of the initial "stiffness" of the 200 series TOB consequently causing the piston to spin like another user had. Have you popped the inspection cover off to take a look inside while the engine is running?

 

So I've just got the truck back from the shop with the new Tilton HRB, and Metal FJ Pedal! @BillDaCat8 @Kasbien I cant thank you guys enough for pioneering this solution!

In regards to the parts that were replaced, I was told my clutch pressure plate bolts had backed off. I feel confident in saying that they had installed it correctly so the only thing I could think of was that there was an issue with the URD Stage 2 Clutch plate. I noticed, and just checked again this morning, that URD/Gadget no longer offers the clutch that I installed. I was also told that it looked like the seal was about to go on the CM HRB.

New Setup:
new Sachs OEM flywheel
LCEngineering Dual Comp clutch [kevlar]
Tilton HRB
Metal Pedal

now here is where im going to show my ignorance! If someone is willing to and has the time, could someone provide a step by step (with images) of how to bleed this thing? I know there is a specific way, and on top of that ive never bled a clutch and I dont have any equipment such as a vacuum pump to bleed it.

I was out driving yesterday and when I went to start the truck again it wouldnt. It didnt take me very long to realize that im pretty sure its the fact of not having a pedal stop that is long enough (only have the rubber one on it now) Ive ordered the elevator bolt 1/4-20 2" I saw somewhere in this thread to fix that. Could someone explain why exactly without one it would cause damage to transmission, etc?

and for the last thing and what I will most likely have troubles with. Can someone explain with images how to adjust the pedal engagement. I know there are so many variables here such as it may even change over time after it has broken in. Currently, when I depress the clutch it seems to release VERY EARLY unless that is normal and im just not use to it yet. Obviously its the same when letting off. It is at the very top. I just feel there is so much stroke that is not necessary (if im even saying that correctly)

thanks again for everything everyone has put into this, without Tacomaworld, I would have just driven this thing off a bridge

 

Truck likely didn't start as the clutch switch needs adjustment with the new pedal that was installed. If the switch isn't adjusted right, truck won't start. You can verify by pushing your Clutch Start Cancel button on the dash. It should start then.

As for bleeding, the Tilton (almost) bleeds like any hydraulic automotive system.

Grab some type of container as a catch container. A soda bottle works just fine. If you've done the speed bleeder on the end of the Tilton, attach some 1/4" hose to that and run it to your soda bottle.

Have an assistant ready to pump the clutch in the driver's seat.

Now...here's where it's different. Tell your assistant to slowly depress the pedal only to where the clutch bite point is. It's not very far in the pedal travel, maybe 3/4 to 1" in. Tell them to do it slowly and keep it depressed there. Open the bleeder port on the Tilton (you're under the truck BTW) and some fluid and air will escape into your hose and down to your soda bottle. Close the bleed port and tell your buddy they can release the clutch pedal. Do this just like this again several times, pressing clutch about an inch, keeping it there, opening the bleed port, watching fluid/air escape, closing the bleed port and having buddy release the clutch pedal. When you stop seeing big bubbles, tell your buddy they can depress the clutch all the way to the pedal stop you installed (don't do this until you've installed the stop) and open the bleed port again when they've depressed it to the stop. Close the port, tell your buddy they can release the pedal. Do this till you stop seeing any air and you have a firm clutch pedal. Bite cannot be adjusted but will be set at its forever point with a proper bleed.

 

Yes, the engagement point with this setup is very early compared to stock and takes some getting used to.

I still have the squeeling whining issue when cold starting, no one else has mentioned having this issue so I am assuming I have done something wrong, but other than that noise on startup initially, it works well. Was thinking about trying another bleed but when I did it originally I definitely wasn't getting anything but fluid through it by the time I was done per the Tilton method so maybe I should just leave it alone.

 

This is fantastic, thank you @DesertRatliff

I'll look into adjusting the switch. It is odd, if I have the pedal to the floor, that is when it won't start. If I have it up from the floor maybe an inch I can start it. Is that over throwing?

I'll also start it with the Cancel button and see if that works. I've also noticed my cruise control is no longer working so I know that switch needs adjusted as well.

I've saved those bleed instructions

 

So I just installed the pedal stop so that the clutch start switch (shown marked) wasn't being smashed/over extended. The markings kind of shows the sweet spot. Not to far in and not out enough to where it won't start it. While I was down there I checked on the rest of the connectors as well as the cruise control switch and since they were all connected and fine I gave them a push n wiggle for good measure.. what do you know cruise control works again lol

Pedal stop also helps the shifts!



I THINK everything is done at this point amd all I can say is it feels like a different truck. Can't believe shifting into gears can be like butter

 

A screw in the switch pin. Easy, adjustable, I like it!

 

Well, unfortunately I started to get an inconsistent pedal feel a few thousand miles ago and decided that I needed to pull the transmission to see what was going on. Looks like the tilton piston continued to rotate in its bore until both surfaces were rough, causing inconsistent feel in the pedal. Throwout bearing felt perfect, slightly less resistance than when installed new.

With the tilton unit on the bench it was pretty obvious what was going on. It takes very little torque to rotate the piston in the bore, and there is no provision for preventing this from happening. The TO bearing felt very smooth, but offered a small amount of resistance as would be expected. It is hard to image how the tilton piston would NOT rotate in the bore, given the only thing stopping it from doing so is the dust seal tension. Kind of puzzled by the design honestly. The TO bearing also maintains light contact with the pressure plate fingers with the clutch released, so this is a continuous problem.

Anyway, I couldn't bring myself to reinstall the setup given the lack of an anti-rotation feature in the tilton design, so I instead went with a quill sleeve and stock setup. Tilton was also fairly useless on the phone when describing the issue. They basically said it shouldn't rotate but couldn't explain why it shouldn't and couldn't offer assistance since it wasn't a complete kit from them.

One thing I immediately noticed was that the stock slave cylinder has a relatively heavy spring that pushes the TO bearing against the pressure plate fingers at all times. I am guessing this is to reduce relative motion between the pressure plate fingers and bearing, reducing wear on the fingers. The fingers on the pressure plate I removed after 8K miles would never have made 100K miles with the wear rate present.

Not trying to knock the setup, but I figured I should share my experience. The kit didn't fail, but was giving me enough red flags to not trust it long term.

 

@lzalusky Would you mind posting a pic of your pressure plate fingers? Thanks

 

Here you go. This is @8K miles. This looks slightly better than the stock pressure plate I removed at around 110K miles.

 

What a bummer to see this but I appreciate the info. It's a good reminder to keep checking my system and be mindful of changes in pedal feel. The OEM slave assembly is labeled in box and sitting on a shelf waiting as a backup but selfishly hoping your experience is isolated.

Thanks again for posting.

 

Man that looks worse than mine did at 130k

My setup still makes the annoying noise only when its a "cold" start but other than that is been ok. Fingers crossed as I don't wanna be doing a transmission R&R again anytime soon.

 

Ugh... that really sucks dude. I'm sorry. I wanted to add a mechanical means of keeping the piston indexed but the wiping seal really hinders that. Both the piston and the hydraulic unit would require modification to make something work.

Since they AREN'T like that already from the manufacturer, it begs to the question of how "loose" the Tilton-made release bearings are? Do they have so-little initial rolling resistance (think cheap skateboard bearing) that the thought of the piston ever rotating wasn't a consideration? You'd expect poor longevity out of the bearing if that was the case. I kind of want to order one of theirs and see.

Do any other aftermarket hydraulic release being manufactures lock the orientation of the piston as it travels?

 

Hi All,
New to this thread, but was wondering how well this repair is holding up for most? How many miles on the new set-up and any issues you've noticed?

 

I have two years this month and just shy of 30k on the Tilton.

 

Aaack! Haven't read reports of this happening to anyone else's Tilton HRB setup -- so far. Thanks for sharing your experience w/ this in detail, inc'l photos.

Reports like yours are why I bought a Tilton HRB kit, but haven't installed it yet. I don't need it just yet & the more time passes, the more chance there is for serious issues like this to be revealed.