Long Travel BS Thread

When you hit something all the energy and forces of your moving vehicle have to go somewhere. That 'somewhere' is the body and frame of the vehicle balling up and smashing to bits. Engineers for modern vehicles have designed bodies and frames to be somewhat sacrificial so that energy gets absorbed by the vehicle more slowly (relatively). That's what all the little folds and notches in the frame and underbody panels are, just sacrificial bending/breaking points so the body folds up evenly like an accordion and the energy gets evenly absorbed in the same fashion. If you start making those points rigid the forces and energy just move on to whatever the next weakest thing is. And at that point it's more force than the next weakest thing is designed to handle since it's designed with all the breakaways to work together. A good example is the little folds at the very front of the frame rails, they're easy to spot, and plenty examples of guys putting big steel bumpers in that place and then suddenly everything around it is more wobbly and has cracks like radiator supports and steering going to shit now that the frame can't flex as designed.
So what these guys are all saying is it's better to keep everything mild like thin bumpers and not much else, that way the truck still flexes and evenly absorbs energy in a crash. Or if you're gonna go big with armor and suspension (90% of the people here) then you're better off going all the way with a full cage n such and having a truck that's rigid all the way through. Most people that add mods to their trucks end up with a mix thats too strong in some parts, and because of that, extra weak in the spots that aren't built up yet

 

I do feel as though this benefit is slightly overrated for more people than would like to admit it: modern engineering has evolved to crumple the frame and the chassis because it is safer than the old rigid steel square bodies of yesteryear. Caging your truck is safer in an off road and race context because the risk analysis is you vs environment (typically rollover) but in a you vs another vehicle collision, you would have been better off with the stock truck and it's sophisticated curtain airbags and crumple zones. A caged truck in a highway collision at 70mph and an uncaged truck heavy with bumpers and armor are both going to be worse for you safety than the stock truck would have been.

Ultimately we're all making choices and trade offs. I think the whole picture is worth considering for folks who are dailying their trucks and not trailering them. The safest solution in a lot of scenarios (i.e., primarily highway miles) looks more like stock than either a cage or a steel bumper. And that's before we get into whether or not you're wearing your harness, it's correctly tightened, etc.

This has actually been studied. IIHS crash tested a 1959 Bel Air vs a 2009 Malibu. It's no surprise that even though the Bel Air is solid steel with an extremely rigid frame, you were much more likely to survive in a modern vehicle with crumple zones.

It's something worth considering.

ED: The other thing we don't often talk about while we're wearing our pretend safety expert engineering hats is engine mounts. Engines are designed to shear their mounts and drop down below the occupant (rather than into the chassis) but we spend a lot of time preventing that from being possible, too. It's less severe in transverse mounted engines like the 2GR but significant in longitudinal mounts like the 1GR.

It's a complex topic, often without one clear best answer for everyone in all scenarios. I should definitely have a cage, this isn't copium, but I don't think everyone should.

 

Also waiting on the TE doublecab cage. It’ll be the last item on my to do list once my interior is figured out

 

I just want to say. The cars of the 50’s 60’s and 70’s are not the tanks people make them out to be. I’ve been involved with dozens of builds and restorations on these cars through my life. They have no structure whatsoever. They make our frames and bodies look like Abram’s tanks.

The only reason our vehicles aren’t more rigid is for the guy you t-bone at 60.

 

That’s a sweet setup of a cage, and yeah for the chunk you paid, seems like a steal. More we talk about cages, the higher priority in my build list it starts to get. For me it’s the DIY nature of a cage/backhalve/engine cage that holds me up. I wanna start doing more of my own work. Costs far too much to have someone do it, and I have so many ideas in my head I would like to put into metal. Been learning a ton from some great minds in the industry and getting into the 3d design space. I just gotta find time and space to learn how to weld. Cage for sure after that.

 

I was in a car accident in the early 2000’s
Head on collision on the highway with a semi who came through the center

grandma was driving a Lincoln towncar
Totalled the semi (newer car)
And ruined the hood and grill on my grandmas car
paramedics commented that the only reason we lived was the car…
6mo later grandpa put a 454 iron block in it
Unfortunately a few years later the mountain it was parked on ate the car… otherwise I’d still be driving that battle tank around

 

There was a solid period of time 80's and 90's where cars like the towncar and crown vics were quite literally rolling tanks. But in the grand scheme of trying to save lives in the other vehicle were deemed to be too solid. Its funny to see how the engineering has changed over the years.

All I know is seeing some of the wrecks that happened early on in nascar with very minimal safety regarding HANS devices and helmets, seeing for the most part guys walking away should be all you need to know about the safety enhancement that comes from a rigid structure. Obviously safety has grown into full restraints etc. But fact of the matter is I would much rather be in a gnarly wreck in a caged vehicle.

 

For sure a cage, harness, Hans, proper seats etc is safer. The only reason vehicles have airbags is for occupant comfort. Its super inconvenient being harnessed in. Hopped in and put your harness on with the door open? Well now you can't reach the door to close it, or the water bottle you left on the floor. You can't turn around to look at the person in the back seat or grab a snack.

Airbags are there to protect you in a crash because you aren't harnessed in. With a proper cage, harness, seat, the airbags and crumple zones are irrelevant. You just have to look at some of the insane crashes in rally, Nascar, F1, or any racing really to watch people laugh and walk away from crashes that would easily be lethal otherwise.

I am not an engineer.

 

The big issue with a cage and street driving is just keeping your head away from the cage...

A helmet is best, tighter restraints are also really good, and sfi45.1 cage foam would be the bare minimum imo to be in a caged truck while not wearing a helmet.

As you compare to older vehicles, 90s-00s a cage + helmet would be a. Improvement safety wise.

 

It depends how it’s done. I put my seats dang near on the floor. Your head would never touch a tube under any circumstance.

I will say, dropping the seats down also made it insanely comfortable too.

 

For sure. A caged truck is 100% more rigid. But the point was that rigidity is likely a death sentence in a highway collision based on all of the safety testing data we have available. If not for you then for the person you're in the collision with.

Very different story when racing, obviously. And maybe different if everyone in your vehicle is 100% correctly harnessed, wearing helmets, etc. I can probably count on one hand the number of times I've been in a caged car on the street with everyone in it correctly harnessed though.

 

It’s a thing called discipline. I’m highly prone to hop in a vehicle with 3 points and not even buckle. I won’t leave my driveway without being strapped in my harnesses.

You need to have the right mindset and discipline. No question about it. A properly built cage really negates the need for a helmet street driving. (Part of the reason I’m on the fence with kit cages). Most don’t tuck quite as tight as a custom.

Really, the first few weeks with a cage were a pain in the ass for all of the reasons @WormSquirts listed. But you get used to things and it becomes second nature to do things a little bit differently.

Again. Not saying they are for all. But if you want the ultimate in performance and safety. You won’t find better.

 

Like I said, keeping head away from cage is the main task, if you have 6"+ or so to the cage from your head and are harnesses in, you probably are plenty safe, for me the B-pillar bar is far too close, even though its slightly behind the seat.

...but is your seat mounted on a cage stanchion or on the floor pan?

Depending on the crash, the floor and seat can flex or even deform a fair amount!

 

My seats are mounted on the cage. It would be foolish to do it any other way.

 

Most endurance racing series do not mandate the seat mounts be on the cage, so I asked lol.

Mine is on a cantilvered stanchion and it will still flex a fair amount.

If you are raw dawgin in a caged setup all the time, foam will only help keep you safe!

 

I ran cross bars direct through my tunnel for mounting seats. Pretty dang solid. Would basically have to be a perfect storm to hit your head unless you’re like 6’+. Lucky for me I’m a shrimp at 5’7”

 

Bars over or under the trans?
I didnt have enough space to go over, and expect to pull the trans often enough to not go under... I did consider some bolting, but have not made that yet.

 

One bar goes straight through. The other I made a 3/16 boxed structure to connect the tubes. But everything is kept above the trans.

 

How much would a shop charge for a back half?
I got quoted 4-5k for a fully tig welded cage that includes spare tire mounts, and all accessory mounting. Not many options here in NorCal lol

 

Are you referring to a bed cage I hope? Back half is going to be 10-15 range more than likely. Shit gets expensive fast when you start chopping frame off.